[NFP] September Update Video Discussion

[conorbebe]

So Anton mentions "new districts", being plural, so we can assume both new civilisations will have one.

What are people's guesses for the Byzantine unique district? A hippodrome replacement for the Entertainment Complex? Or a tetraconch Holy Site perhaps?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

So Anton mentions "new districts", being plural, so we can assume both new civilisations will have one.

What are people's guesses for the Byzantine unique district? A hippodrome replacement for the Entertainment Complex? Or a tetraconch Holy Site perhaps?

I think most of us assume Hippodrome to go with the domination aspect of the civ. But a unique Holy Site is certainly still on the table.

 

[MisterBoomBoom]

I had long ago given up on the reintroduction of a highlands map. They still have so much more work to do with respect to maps IMHO.

 

[Villager720]

I'm surprised so many folks are surprised at Gaul.

I had long suspected we'd get a Celt representative albeit more focused than a "blob" keeping with the trend we've seen in this Civ iteration [Polynesians (V) --> Maori (VI)]
Scotland's implementation had so little "Celtic" flair that it seemed almost meaningfully avoided, thus leaving a gap for the perennial favorite Celts (re:Gaul) to be added later.

In hindsight, the Gaul's make the most sense for Celtic inclusion as Britainia was already represented by two Civ's, with Iberia and Germania potentially being in the same boat.

 

[Arianrhod]

It's less that I'm surprised, exactly, and more a combination of there being several Civs I'd expect to be a higher priority for those last few spots and assuming they wouldn't want to make Scotland even more pointless than it already is (since England is basically the UK here anyway.)

 

[AvianBritish]

I do hope that part of Byzantium's Civ or leader ability is "Varangian Guard" which allows you to buy allied/declared-friend's unique units with gold or faith. I'm not sure if someone on here suggested it or if it was something one of my Varangian Guard obsessed friends talking about it and me coming up with the idea that Byzantium can hire Beserkers and Viking Longships.

A little bit annoyed that we didn't get Portugal this time around, especially when I was expecting them with Byzantium or a Celtic Civ (turns out we got them together and not Portugal! lol!) when they could be a Unique Great Admiral civ, akin to Gran Colombia of the Sea. I'm still hoping we get them in DLC4 or DLC6, but then I'm also hoping for Assyria and a new NA Native Civ. The question is... which of the three do I mind not being in the game?

Looking forward to see what else the Gauls do; I do love culture-bombing Civs and civs that more yeilds on the map; not sure what to think about the Dūnon/IZ-Fortress if it will be a bit too powerful with the Encampment and City Centre ranged attacks (and with Victor's double attacks), but looking forward to the music, leader and other bonuses.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

It's less that I'm surprised, exactly, and more a combination of there being several Civs I'd expect to be a higher priority for those last few spots and assuming they wouldn't want to make Scotland even more pointless than it already is (since England is basically the UK here anyway.)

Yeah it's like the devs keep wanting do-overs on civs. First Macedon (Greece), then Canada (Cree), and now the Gauls (Scotland).

At this point I am fully expecting Austria, Denmark, and Babylon on top of Assyria. Because apparently Norway, Hungary, and Sumeria weren't good enough and we need to try again.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

They may have been thinking about a Gaul civ when making Scotland so intentionally went for a modern focus with golf courses and British Highlander so they did not end up feeling similar.

Still would have been nice if they swapped the golf course for something less destructive to humanity like a whiskey distillery...

 

[Myomoto]

...I'm still pissed we got meme-tier Canada with hockey and Mounties instead of the awesome speculation here of coureur des bois and grand railway hotels

At this point I'm not sure if I'll be disappointed if Gaul DOESN'T have a magic potion ability.

 

[Red Adept]

With the subtext being, "Out of ideas!".

The over-arching feel is "Stuff from the cutting room floor..."

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So Anton mentions "new districts", being plural, so we can assume both new civilisations will have one.

What are people's guesses for the Byzantine unique district? A hippodrome replacement for the Entertainment Complex? Or a tetraconch Holy Site perhaps?

I think it will be the Hippodrome as anything related to a holy site might feel too similar to Russia's Lavra, considering it is technically Byzantine in origin. Of course they could always rework the Lavra into a Byzantium UD and give Russia say a Kremlin UB, replacing walls.
I doubt it.

I do hope that part of Byzantium's Civ or leader ability is "Varangian Guard" which allows you to buy allied/declared-friend's unique units with gold or faith. I'm not sure if someone on here suggested it or if it was something one of my Varangian Guard obsessed friends talking about it and me coming up with the idea that Byzantium can hire Beserkers and Viking Longships.

It looks like the leader might be Basil II based off of the fuzzy appearance so definitely it's possible. At the same time I would also like it if the Varangian Guard was his LUU.

 

[Josephias]

At this point I'm not sure if I'll be disappointed if Gaul DOESN'T have a magic potion ability.

Well, at least there is a pretty good chance you end up with a winged helmet

Spoiler :

 

[8housesofelixir]

Still would have been nice if they swapped the golf course for something less destructive to humanity like a whiskey distillery...

Whiskey distillery could be a fantastic choice because it still fits (or more of a fit than the golf course) current Scotland's theme of amenity (alcohol) and industrial (distillery).

 

[pokiehl]

I don't really care for the Berbers/dihya and I'm not sure how you guys got so convinced that it's happening now. For that region Morocco is a much more attractive choice to me.

I think Assyria is a better and more likely candidate to not only be in the game but get a female leader.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I don't really care for the Berbers/dihya and I'm not sure how you guys got so convinced that it's happening now. For that region Morocco is a much more attractive choice to me.

I think Assyria is a better and more likely candidate to not only be in the game but get a female leader.

I personally would rather them go something pre-Islamic for North Africa, instead of Morocco. Though they could always focus on a specific Berber kingdom like Numidia. I mean that would go well with Gaul and of course Rome and Phoenicia.
Plus the city-state of Fez released in GS feels like it is designed to be non-replaceable due to the suzerain bonus, at least in my opinion.

The problem is if Assyria gets a female leader then that would make it to where all three ancient era leaders would be basically fictionalized as Semiramas, or Shammuramat, would definitely have to be to have any sort of leader ability based on mythology.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I don't really care for the Berbers/dihya and I'm not sure how you guys got so convinced that it's happening now. For that region Morocco is a much more attractive choice to me.

I think Assyria is a better and more likely candidate to not only be in the game but get a female leader.

The problem was that we got a Fez city-state and Morocco appears in the diplomatic victory screen, where every other flag represented a civ which presumably did not make the cut. There was no reason to hope for Morocco. Add to this the fact that many had griped about Morocco being too Arabic and not representing Berber heritage, the absence of Carthage in civ representing Algeria and Tunisia, plus the broader representation a Berber/Numidia civ would give to those regions, and it all kind of makes sense. If we can stretch a barebones classical culture like the Gauls into a civ, then it actually seems quite feasible to fashion a Berber civ now.

That being said, it seems like the late addition of Antioch didn't preclude Byzantium, so it is entirely possible that Morocco could still happen. I certainly think that adding some Arabic influence would help flesh out a Berber civ design, and that a true Berber civ would end up feeling very similar to Scythia. But limitation breeds creativity, and maybe the Berbers might lead to some interesting design space like how the Gauls have an IZ-encampment hybrid district.

Also, while I think the devs are absolutely considering Shammuramat to lead Assyria, there are many on these boards who loathe the idea. I personally don't care because Sumeria is plenty for me in that region.

 

[pokiehl]

I personally would rather them go something pre-Islamic for North Africa, instead of Morocco. Though they could always focus on a specific Berber kingdom like Numidia.

Ah, I disagree. I think another Islamic civ is warranted.

Plus the city-state of Fez released in GS feels like it is designed to be non-replaceable due to the suzerain bonus, at least in my opinion.

I don't follow you. You could get that feeling about anything. The only city-states I'd say are a sure bet aren't being replaced are ones with unique improvement suzerain bonuses.

The problem is if Assyria gets a female leader then that would make it to where all three ancient era leaders would be basically fictionalized as Semiramas, or Shammuramat, would definitely have to be to have any sort of leader ability based on mythology.

What is wrong with that?

The problem was that we got a Fez city-state and Morocco appears in the diplomatic victory screen, where every other flag represented a civ which presumably did not make the cut.

Those are "problems?" I dunno man, those sound like completely arbitrary fan-made rules to me. There have been multiple city-states that have been added to the game only to be "upgraded" - also Antioch, which makes TWICE that City-State has been replaced. And you really think a picture of a flag is some impenetrable force-field preventing Firaxis from implementing a civ they decide they want to do?

There was no reason to hope for Morocco.

There was no reason to hope for Gaul or Eleanor of Aquitaine or or or...

Add to this the fact that many had griped about Morocco being too Arabic and not representing Berber heritage, the absence of Carthage in civ representing Algeria and Tunisia, plus the broader representation a Berber/Numidia civ would give to those regions, and it all kind of makes sense. If we can stretch a barebones classical culture like the Gauls into a civ, then it actually seems quite feasible to fashion a Berber civ now.

I don't follow you at all. I'm not trying to be rude but this is just a disparate list of random assertions to me (and who was griping about Morocco? I've only ever seen positive reactions.)

Also, while I think the devs are absolutely considering Shammuramat to lead Assyria, there are many on these boards who loathe the idea.

I don't think there's anything anyone can say is "absolutely" happening and I've no idea where this apparent vociferous Semiramis hatred is.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I don't follow you. You could get that feeling about anything. The only city-states I'd say are a sure bet aren't being replaced are ones with unique improvement suzerain bonuses.

Like I said it's a feeling that I think city-states designed for GS and after were kind of designed specifically to stay as opposed to the more generic designs of earlier ones, with exceptions.

The problem was that we got a Fez city-state and Morocco appears in the diplomatic victory screen, where every other flag represented a civ which presumably did not make the cut. There was no reason to hope for Morocco. Add to this the fact that many had griped about Morocco being too Arabic and not representing Berber heritage, the absence of Carthage in civ representing Algeria and Tunisia, plus the broader representation a Berber/Numidia civ would give to those regions, and it all kind of makes sense. If we can stretch a barebones classical culture like the Gauls into a civ, then it actually seems quite feasible to fashion a Berber civ now.

I mean that basically sums up what I would say. Morocco to me did feel like an extension of an Arabian civ just in North Africa.
I don't know if the diplomatic victory showing Morocco's flag means anything, but I did notice it. Especially after Gran Colombia was announced and Argentina's flag was also shown.
Either way I'm a Classical Era/ Mediterranean history nerd that would be thrilled with Numidia.

I don't think there's anything anyone can say is "absolutely" happening and I've no idea where this apparent vociferous Semiramis hatred is.

I don't loathe the idea considering if that's how we get Assyria I still would take it. But when there is Ashurbanipal, Sennacherib, and Tiglath Pileser III and others who we know more about she's at the bottom of my wish list.

 

[bite]

Moderator Action: Reminder that this is a discussion of the upcoming update not for potential new civs [you have a whole thread just for that]

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Those are "problems?" I dunno man, those sound like completely arbitrary fan-made rules to me.

It's not arbitrary at all. Given the pattern in expacks of adding city-states specifically representing second string civs that the devs decided weren't going to be civs (Akkadia, Madagascar, Ireland, New Zealand, Babylon, Brunei, Belgium, Argentina, Missisippian, Wales, Andalusia, Mexico, Oman, Nazca, Kanem-Bornu, Rapa Nui, and now Taino, Muisca, Sikh Confederacy, Singapore, Nok, and Vatican City State), there was every reason to believe that city-states added as late as Gathering Storm had been dismissed as candidates.

The Maya gave us hope that maybe the Viking DLC city-states could be reconsidered, but it wasn't until Antioch was removed that we had any reason to believe that the state of the game's development anticipated having to replace Fez or any of the other city-states added in 2019. It was a wholly reasonable inference to believe that the devs would be adding city-states that would be least likely to need replacing.

There was no reason to hope for Gaul or Eleanor of Aquitaine or or or...

False equivalency, Gaul and Eleanor had no Fez.

I don't follow you at all. I'm not trying to be rude but this is just a disparate list of random assertions to me (and who was griping about Morocco? I've only ever seen positive reactions.)

They weren't major gripes but there were plenty of volunteered opinions that, if Morocco returned, members on these boards wanted it to be led by a Berber.

Also, you're trying to paint me as someone who doesn't actually want Morocco? I would be happy with either Morocco or the Berbers.

I don't think there's anything anyone can say is "absolutely" happening and I've no idea where this apparent vociferous Semiramis hatred is.

It is so incredibly unlikely that, in vetting leaders for Assyria, the devs have not considered Shammuramat. It's basically willful ignorance to pretend otherwise.

And I really can't help you on the Shammalamma hatred if you simply haven't been paying attention on these boards. I got torn apart in the civ speculation thread for merely stating that I expected her to be under consideration because VI loves baity leader selections.