pol1
kayaking physicist
well - there are always horses and swords in AA to ensure that we have enough land and pop to enter election.
ready!
SGFN-04: Ragnar for Secretary-General!
- Thread starter TheOverseer714
- Start date
well - there are always horses and swords in AA to ensure that we have enough land and pop to enter election.
ready!
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment:
With respect, that's a bit simplistic for this variant, especially as it's only at Emperor; you will find it necessary to allow several AI civs to grow in peace in order to keep up the tech pace, and to allow you to broker trades between them; this is one variant where you don't really want to be numero uno.
I'm not saying that it can't be done that way, just that you would need to hope that the beta continent provided such civs, and that relies too much on luck for my taste.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
We'll need a pre-build timed so that within a few turns of us getting it, we get it built before anyone else can finish it. It's going to be dicey no matter what.
Tad Empire_0_o
GAHH... Puberty
ok I think we have a plan so lets start! 
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment:
Are SGL's on? It would be a shame if the first AI to Fission was to get one.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I never thought about SGL's, so yes, they are enabled. Sounds like it just get dicier around that time. Theres always the chance we could lose this one in many different ways. Just adds to the joy if we win. So far, this series has been basically won long before the AI could hope to win.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I have played out the first 20, things are looking pretty good so far, but I will let you read the turn-log to find out more, so here it is:
Hand off notes: I recommend Erik continue South, longboat 1 explore the West coast, and turn Leif West and Southwest to explore the Interior. We should get a settler in 5 turns, I’d say plant him 1 Southwest on the hill, which will still be on fresh water and get max benefit of the river and wines, and only 3 tundra tiles.
Here is the big picture of my explorations:
Here is a proposed dotmap, In no way is this the final say, just my idea of some possible town sites. The tundra towns will obviously be ages away:
Spoiler :
Raise lux to 20% to prevent riots on growth.
Hand off notes: I recommend Erik continue South, longboat 1 explore the West coast, and turn Leif West and Southwest to explore the Interior. We should get a settler in 5 turns, I’d say plant him 1 Southwest on the hill, which will still be on fresh water and get max benefit of the river and wines, and only 3 tundra tiles.
Here is the big picture of my explorations:
Here is a proposed dotmap, In no way is this the final say, just my idea of some possible town sites. The tundra towns will obviously be ages away:
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I guess I have not figured out who goes next. If anyone wants to go next and is available tonight or tomorrow to play, holler now
Or, I could just go with the order that is in post #1. Here that is
Roster:
1: TheOverseer714=> just played
2: Anaxagoras=> up
3: WanderingNoob=> on deck
4: ThinkTank=> warming up
5: TadEmpire=> waiting
6: Sercer=> waiting longer
7: Pol1=> waiting longest
Or, I could just go with the order that is in post #1. Here that isRoster:
1: TheOverseer714=> just played
2: Anaxagoras=> up
3: WanderingNoob=> on deck
4: ThinkTank=> warming up
5: TadEmpire=> waiting
6: Sercer=> waiting longer
7: Pol1=> waiting longest
Tad Empire_0_o
GAHH... Puberty
I think that first the dot map right now is pretty good.. but we should send a warrior to find Korea as they might be close & grap some much needed resourses. 
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment:
IMO, your dotmap is too widely spaced. In a zero Science game the key is to maximize your economy, and anything wider than CxxC will leave tiles unworked until you can get hospitals; that equates to a lot of gold over the course of the game. If possible, you should be looking to work every tile available to you.
Also, you should try to keep unit support as close to zero as you can get it; since Republic is a no-brainer, this too requires that you optimize your city placements for maximum returns.
It's crucial that you remember that this is not a normal game, and it requires a different approach - think 'gold' with every decision that you make.
One strategic decision that you may want to make is an early Palace jump - Trondheim is badly placed for generating a powerful core.
IMO, your dotmap is too widely spaced. In a zero Science game the key is to maximize your economy, and anything wider than CxxC will leave tiles unworked until you can get hospitals; that equates to a lot of gold over the course of the game. If possible, you should be looking to work every tile available to you.
Also, you should try to keep unit support as close to zero as you can get it; since Republic is a no-brainer, this too requires that you optimize your city placements for maximum returns.
It's crucial that you remember that this is not a normal game, and it requires a different approach - think 'gold' with every decision that you make.
One strategic decision that you may want to make is an early Palace jump - Trondheim is badly placed for generating a powerful core.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
Good starting set Overseer. Seems we had a fair bit of luck with popping huts!
Two have forests on it. 20 free shields! And forest again after engeneering.
I agree with this. Unfortunately there are a lot of mountains around - not good for commerce.
I agree and this means that we are back to a problem/discussion we had in our previous game: we have a badly situated capitol. One of the things I feel we did wrong in SGFN03 is postpone the discussion about the palace jump, but not building infra in the capitol, and then in the end decided not to do the palace jump. We are in a similar situation again - but now, let's finish the plan for the palace jump before playing.
I agree with Buce that in this game we need an early palace jump, but not too early. Right after the first main REX burst I would say, when we have 12-15 cities. Given that, I do want to use capitol as a settler pump and build a granary as soon as possible. Even if the granary will disappear in the palace jump, I think an investment of 60 shields for producing 10 settlers or more at double speed is more than worth while. I think the granary should be the next build after the settler finishes. I can be supported by one or two chops.
Expansion reveals tundra
Two have forests on it. 20 free shields! And forest again after engeneering.
I agree with this. Unfortunately there are a lot of mountains around - not good for commerce.
I agree and this means that we are back to a problem/discussion we had in our previous game: we have a badly situated capitol. One of the things I feel we did wrong in SGFN03 is postpone the discussion about the palace jump, but not building infra in the capitol, and then in the end decided not to do the palace jump. We are in a similar situation again - but now, let's finish the plan for the palace jump before playing.
I agree with Buce that in this game we need an early palace jump, but not too early. Right after the first main REX burst I would say, when we have 12-15 cities. Given that, I do want to use capitol as a settler pump and build a granary as soon as possible. Even if the granary will disappear in the palace jump, I think an investment of 60 shields for producing 10 settlers or more at double speed is more than worth while. I think the granary should be the next build after the settler finishes. I can be supported by one or two chops.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment:
As far as a Palace jump is concerned, that would be my suggestion of how to use any MGL that may be generated in an AA war, something that you may find necessary; because it takes time to develop a powerful economy, poking with the pointy stick is probably the most effective way of keeping up with AA techs - the AI can be quite generous when paying for peace in the AA, less so in the MA's and beyond, and you don't need to cripple them for the rest of the game either, so they can still contribute to the tech pace.
I certainly agree with ThinkTank that you should decide on where you will want your capital now, and dotmap accordingly.
As far as a Palace jump is concerned, that would be my suggestion of how to use any MGL that may be generated in an AA war, something that you may find necessary; because it takes time to develop a powerful economy, poking with the pointy stick is probably the most effective way of keeping up with AA techs - the AI can be quite generous when paying for peace in the AA, less so in the MA's and beyond, and you don't need to cripple them for the rest of the game either, so they can still contribute to the tech pace.
I certainly agree with ThinkTank that you should decide on where you will want your capital now, and dotmap accordingly.
anaxagoras
King
I was hoping to fit the game in tonight, so hopefully we won't spend too much time on the palace jump question. My wife calls succession gaming my "homework" and she finds it vaguely annoying, so it is better to get it in on the weekends when I can.
My comments so far: First, I don't think the dot map is too far off, since we're constrained by mountains and tundra on our north and east. My inclination is to settle our second city on the southernmost wine across the river. That town will benefit from multiple forest chops and has the potential to become one of our most productive cities, with access to the hill for shields. I think I would also settle the grass inside the mountain ring, but only later. It is CxC with the wine city, but with so little food available, that settlement will probably stay a town, anyway. You can also see that the only way to claim the furs without risking the volcano is to settle the hill SW of the fox. The would push the lime dot one south, but everything else could stay where it is. Lime dot would be a prime candidate for the palace, depending on what else we find.
I agree that we should make the jump earlier rather than later. If we're fortunate enough to get a MGL, this would be a good use for one, but we should be ready to jump even before conflict. Early contact would indicate that the neighbors are close, but there's a lot of good land available. I don't necessarily think we should wait for the end of the REX to make the move. Depending on how things go, maybe after 6 or 7 cities, rather than 12.
I would like to build a clockwise curragh next in Trondheim, and as a result I am inclined to make a granary the first build in city number two, aided by a chop or two (which will also help us connect to yellow dot). Remember, one of the keys to our strategy is locating the other continent as soon as we can, so we can be trade broker. In order to do that, we need to explore the water as soon as possible.
Overseer, did you post the actual save?
My comments so far: First, I don't think the dot map is too far off, since we're constrained by mountains and tundra on our north and east. My inclination is to settle our second city on the southernmost wine across the river. That town will benefit from multiple forest chops and has the potential to become one of our most productive cities, with access to the hill for shields. I think I would also settle the grass inside the mountain ring, but only later. It is CxC with the wine city, but with so little food available, that settlement will probably stay a town, anyway. You can also see that the only way to claim the furs without risking the volcano is to settle the hill SW of the fox. The would push the lime dot one south, but everything else could stay where it is. Lime dot would be a prime candidate for the palace, depending on what else we find.
I agree that we should make the jump earlier rather than later. If we're fortunate enough to get a MGL, this would be a good use for one, but we should be ready to jump even before conflict. Early contact would indicate that the neighbors are close, but there's a lot of good land available. I don't necessarily think we should wait for the end of the REX to make the move. Depending on how things go, maybe after 6 or 7 cities, rather than 12.
I would like to build a clockwise curragh next in Trondheim, and as a result I am inclined to make a granary the first build in city number two, aided by a chop or two (which will also help us connect to yellow dot). Remember, one of the keys to our strategy is locating the other continent as soon as we can, so we can be trade broker. In order to do that, we need to explore the water as soon as possible.
Overseer, did you post the actual save?
anaxagoras
King
Hmm, maybe you're right about the granary being in Trondheim, although I'd still like to get a curragh out there as soon as we can thereafter. City two will require a lot of tile improvements before we get to +4sfpt, so a granary may not be best there.
Order of settlement would be wines, yellow dot, purple dot. That gives us a solid, if temporary core.
Order of settlement would be wines, yellow dot, purple dot. That gives us a solid, if temporary core.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
I would not like to compromise REX. Jumping palace with 7 cities will maybe change our income with 2 or 3 gpt. Not interesting enough to shut down a settler pump.
Ok. Build order is good I think and I agree to moving blue dot. How about moving yellow dot 1 NE? CxxC and it will immediately grab the cow? BTW, from what we know of the map now yellow dot is likely the new capitol site.
anaxagoras
King
If we move yellow dot, we no longer get fresh water. It makes the site less attractive as the capital. I am also concerned that it might be relatively close to our rivals. That's why I figured lime was better. I don't know if it is truly necessary to decide that right now.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
If it looses a food we should not move it I guess.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I need to build new habits, I used to post the save with the screens. Now that I'm using photobucket, the save is being forgotten. To remedy this current forgetfulness, here is the save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/110452/SGFN04_Overseer__3000_BC.SAV
ThinkTank
RL Addict
O magnificent seeer, what is this photobucket of which thou speaketh?
