Sgotm 01 - C F R

[AlanH]

Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 1 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

This game will be played in Civ4, patched to v1.61.

This first SGOTM will not feature any advanced variant.. the winner simply will be the team that wins the game at the earliest game date with either domination or a diplomatic victory. All victory conditions are still enabled though, with exception of Space Race, so you have to avoid getting another type of victory (and of course prevent the AIs from winning).

Individual start files for all teams will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page at midnight, server local time, at the start of May 12.

Here's the start position.

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Hapshepsut of Egypt
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Mystery
Game Speed - Epic

Permanent Alliances are turned on (can form permanent alliances after either communism or fascism is researched)
Space race is disabled.
Egypt is locked into war with Huayna Capac of the Incas.
Egypt is locked into peace with an unknown civilization.

The map is hand built, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared:
Civ4 SGOTM reference thread

Notes:

A. ONLY Civilization4 v1.61 is supported for this SGOTM. All teams will compete for a single award - the Gold Laurels.

B. All teams must play the sponsored variant - victory will be awarded for the fastest victory by either domination or diplomacy.

C. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Good luck to your team, and remember rule #1: Enjoy your game

 

[akots]

Checking in and starting to think about the roster.

I'm think about letting Dynamic to start. These first moves are important.

So, the roster is:

1. Dynamic
2. Ptitsa Consul
3. Witan
4. akots
5. EsatP
6. Obormot
7. Lexad
8. Cat Behemoth

If any objections to the roster, please say so.

The speed is epic, so Dynamic can play 30 turns imho and then next player can play 10 or 20 depending on what will happen. Then we go with either 10 or 20 turns for number 3 and then, may be switch to more conventional 10 turns.

 

[Obormot]

Checking in

I don't really care about the roster and i think during the first rotation whoever feels like playing should take the save and play.

The first turns are importnat, but we have already discussed them in great detail and now we just have to implement the calculations from Witan's spreadsheet into the game itself. I'll do the comparison between warrior first and worker first as i promised (was a little busy), though i am sure that warrior first slows us down greatly.

Edit: your roster is fine with me too.

 

[akots]

This approach usually ends up in nobody actually playing and we don't want that. Let's try to organize things first. We will see how it goes from that point.

 

[Dynamic]

I'm in.
OK, I can start the game. I also wait for Obormot's test before starting.

 

[Obormot]

The save will be released on 12th IIRC.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

Cat Behemoth was here.

 

[Ptitsa Consul]

Ptitsa Consul here!

I'm second! Aaaa! I'm shocking... But, I think, my team helps me

 

[Lexad]

I'm here too. Is it 20 turns or 10 turns per player?

Btw, new info different from my previous starting location model: 3w2n from settler tile seems to be shore. 3n2w might be also, although I'm not too sure.

 

[akots]

The main question which has to be decided upon, do we play Diplomatic or Domination? Is it a careless conquest game or research-based approach? To decide this, we need to know is it a continents map and requires Astronomy or is it more similar to a Pangea map?

I understand the reluctance of the authors of the scenario to tell us that much but we cannot decide firmly what path should we follow without knowing it.

I sincerely hate these kinds of situations and it is more of a gamble than strategy planning here. So, either we make some intelligent quess after first 30-40 turns or we would just have to vote and thus decide on how we will be playing the game.

 

[Obormot]

Well as i said i'm almost sure that astronomy is required for domination here. In this case domination and diplomatic are both played the same way in the very begining and after we explore a bit we'll be able to make a choice based on the number of civs on our continent.

 

[Lexad]

Agree with Obormot here. Both styles require tech development which goes pretty much the same till Civil Service at the least.

Btw, when I enter as guest I can read the team forum. Is it supposed to be so or can other teams spy on us this way?

And how much turns do we want for 1 player? AlanH said it's up to the team to decide.

 

[Obormot]

The team threads are open for viewing, but people here trust each other.

20 turns for the first player and 10 turns after has been the standard for civ3. In civ4 the openings play a little slower, especially on epic speed, so we might want to give the first player 30 or 40 turns.

 

[akots]

@Lexad: Don't even think about it. If somebody looks into other threads, they will be caught regardless of their login with a name or as a guest.

As I said previously, first player plays 30 turns, second 20, third 20, and then we will see how it goes.

I'm not as sure as you are that Domination on this map requires Astronomy. I don't know why you have decided that.

I went through a painful research struggle in GOTM4 (India) only to find out that this was not needed and the game could have been finished with horse archers and swordsmen on a few galleys a thousand years earlier.

 

[akots]

Let's look at the best finish dates:
GOTM 5 - Don't think it is relevant since Warlord level leads to somewhat weird games, we might better just disregard it
GOTM 4 - Domination 960AD (1605AD next result), Diplo 1640AD (continents but can be reached with galleys)
GOTM 3 - Domination 800AD, Diplo 1300AD (pangea)
GOTM 2 - Domination 1330 AD, Diplo 1260 AD (pangea with lots of lots of land and tricky pathfinding, also with lots of ice)
GOTM 1 - Domination 1260 AD, Diplo 1410 AD (Continents requiring Astronomy)

So, overall, Domination is somewhat slightly more rapid on a map even when one needs Astronomy. Besides, we will be at peace with some civ which is not disclosed and might be they have to be reached after Astronomy is discovered.

So, even if we need Astronomy, Domination should be slightly more rapid.

 

[Lexad]

It's somewhat of a galley gamble here, agreed. Also, UU calls for early wiping out of some neighbours. But if we still wish to get astronomy, our starting tech path should be pretty much the same for both strats, at least for the first 2,5K years. That was my point, and I didn't take it from any other team thread, swear

 

[Obormot]

Well, making a race with both diplo and domination allowed simply doesn't make any sence on a pangaea/galleys map. Domination would obviously be faster. But on continents with astronomy required both come at about the same time. And turning permanent alliance on in a game that can be finished long before doesn't make much sence too. Unless evil Gyathar wants to confuse us of course.

We do need to explore our continent soon and maybe build a few early galleys to look for a safe passage just in case, but we cannot afford to slow down our research rate unless we really find that domination without astronomy is possible.

 

[akots]

... Unless Gyathar wants to confuse us of course.
...

Oh, I'm sure he would love to.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

What about me, I prefer dyplo. So much flood plains - cottages. (I like cottages ) Science could be very fast.

But I think that akots is wright - domination will be faster (if another continent will be able for conquesting )

 

[Obormot]

OK, i've done the comparison between worker first and warrior first and it looks like building a warrior is not that bad as I expected. We get about the same number of shields and beakers by turn 50. Cottage growth is slowed down quite a bit though.

I calculated 3 different scenarios: worker at size1 + build 2 cottages before pasture, worker at size2 + build 2 cottages before pasture and worker at size 2 + build the pasture before cottages. I didn't do the one where we build a worker first and then build the pasture since it is obviously weaker because of idle worker turns. Of course we can build the pasture earlier or later in each case depending on whether we'll need more shields or not (for worker stealing or defense from incans if they are close).

The main question here is whether we are willing to take the risk of startштп a worker at size 1 or not. We gain about 20 turns of cottage growth with the same worker build sequence. That is about 1-2 beakers per turn.