Sgotm 01 - C F R

[Dynamic]

OK, I'm ready to wake up and continue. I'm still worried for hammers usage.
The good production sequence is Worker(18), Warrior(11), Warrior(11), Settler(15) at size 3, Library.
Science: Pottery-Animals-Writing.
Worker: Cottage-Cottage-Pasture then will see.

 

[Obormot]

Why do you want to build the settler at size 3?

 

[Cat Behemoth]

Since we have permanent war I think that the first our production should be warrior.

PS. Oh my god! It's seems too late...

 

[Obormot]

Don't worry I bet the incas are far away so that the game is not affected by the RNG that much. And ew also have our starting warrior

 

[Lexad]

Why do you want to build the settler at size 3?

As I see it:
It comes 2 turns before 2nd warrior built, so you lose almost no time on popping up while producing. If enemy is near, we need fast city on horses/copper to fight with his quechua/archers.

As I understand, we put pasture 3rd because still 3 turns to AH left. If we put warrior first, though, it might have been an option.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

Don't worry I bet the incas are far away so that the game is not affected by the RNG that much. And ew also have our starting warrior

OK. Then I bid they are close to us. And no more worries in any case.

 

[Dynamic]

I decided to build Capital on the Plain Hill SW from start because of 2 hammers core and Cow is available. I choose way for science boost as universal method. Of course later we could change it depend on situation.

3970BC - Thebes has been founded. Warrior go to SE on the coast (see Fish and Clam) then along this coast to the SW direction
3850BC - The borders of Thebes have expanded, see NW sea...
3820BC - see Sugar
3700BC - Lion and Wolf on the East... Our lands looks like thin vertical continent. Warrior go South.
3580BC - contact Russian on the SW neck.
3550BC - Pottery has been discovered, start Animal Husbandry
3520BC - Russian borders have been reached. No Worker. Go SW.
3430BC - No way for Warrior - go back and try East. Thebes built Worker - go E and build Cottage.
3280BC - No way for Warrior on the East from Russia. Have to wait for Writing.
3220BC - First Cottage was built. Warrior go around Russian borders to the West.
3190BC - Worker start second Cottage on SE.
3100BC - Thebes is size 2 now (2 FP), Warrior 2 was built, start Warrior 3. Warrior 2 go NW because of Lion on NE.
3070BC - Warrior 2 on the coast (NW), see Fish
3040BC - Animal Husbandry has been discovered, start Writing. Horse appears near Russia. Warrior 2 go NE and see new Cow - double Cow in this place.
A Forest has grown near Thebes!
3010BC - Buddism gas been founded somewhere, Warrior 2 discovered Horse near the north Cows!
2080BC - Second Cottage was built.

This is my last turn (35). I cross 3000BC so it's enough for first session.
So, we met only one civ, but there are other lands on SE and SW from Russian Capital how big are its - unknown. Land to the North is not discovered yet but looks like tundra, so this is probably North part of our continent.
We have Stone and Horse near start position and this is good. Now I'm not so sure about second city position. Place on the North looks very nice...

On the next session I suppose we need to build Pasture on the Cow(6) and after Warrior 3 start Settler(15), then Library. Writing will be discovered in 12 turns.

Next science must be discussed and Worker job also. Warrior 1 go South after Open Borders, Warrior 2 go N along the coast and back. Somewhere in the fog exists wild animals so we need choose tiles carefully.
Thebes borders will expand after 5 turns.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/CFR_SG001_BC2980_01.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Lexad]

Sweet!
As I understand, we can have a look at the position, but make no moves which could give hints to player.

Edit: looked at the map - seems much like fractal, there could still be plenty of land to the north.
The Russians must die. 3 gems, sugar (+food), ideal place for commerce city or GP farm.
I would completely agree with Dynamic about North place for the city, perhaps SE from horses: 5 floods, 2 cows, horse. Getting further North would give us too much tundra.
I think, if no unexpected circumstances arise, we can start war 15-20 turns after the 2nd city is founded - to utilise our UU while we can. As the capital is planned to become our scientific centre (as I understand), we should till first horses, and then cows aroung 2nd city wich will produce chariots while the 1st develops. This will give us 3rd city w/o settler

Summing up: great start!

 

[Dynamic]

Why do you want to build the settler at size 3?

Because we haven't real building now and have good places for cities. Size 4 and 5 added only 1 food each to Settler production. And, this sequence not loses any hammers.

 

[Dynamic]

And, don't forget that any resourse stay available 1 turn before Worker timing for this improvenent. So, don't forget to change citizens job in time.

 

[Obormot]

How high will the maintenance cost be if we capture Moscow? And can chariots actually move through jungle, or does it work the same way as in civ3?

Dynamic's build sequence looks good, an early settler might be a good idea given the great city locations around the capital, but I am still not completely convinced, just hate to delay working cottages. Have to think about it some more. If we do build a settler we'll also need a worker sometime soon to synchronise growth and cottaging.

BTW the continent looks quite small so diplo might be the faster way to go. Well, I don't know really, since I don't have that much experience with civ4. We should also look for a safe galley passage. Thing are a bit tricky here since galley movement depends on culture. Does anybody know of a reliable method to find out if there is a passage or not?

 

[Lexad]

As I presume, after pop 3 for 1 of 2 turns while warrior is building and pasture isn't ready, the 3rd citizen should go to flood plain as w/o writing we have not much use for spare hammer (which might decay) but would rather have another food, and the next turn - to cow as the pasture is finished?

As for the next science - as we didn't take the religious route, do we go to CoL through maths (good!) and currency (goood!!)? The only drawback - route is rather long and we're bound to lose Oracle to comps.
The route Myst-medit-priest takes 422 bulbs (less than maths cost!) and brings us to the same CoL. If we go for CS-slingshot - shich is nerfed in 1.61, haven't still tried it here - we'd rather take this route first. Whad do grand minds think?

Afterthought - if we capture Moscow, maybe we should put BW and IW somewhere in the line (phaps after CS) to grab sugar and gems in the jungle?

 

[Lexad]

How high will the maintenance cost be if we capture Moscow?

They have a gem mine there = 2/1/7(!). It will do

About jungle movement - only mongolian keshiks ignore terrain.

One more afterthought - both Thebes and Moscow stand on hills. This gives any defender stationed in Belokamennaya additional +25% defence bonus, so grab an extra chariot or 2 to improve the odds

And a big risk idea - if russians do not build their 2nd city to the North, why don't we build NE from horses near them? At pop 2 the city will have 1+3+2 = 6 hammers = chariot almost every 6 turns! And after 9 more turns (pop 3) the mine can give us additional 3 hammers to a chariot almost every 4 turns! At the start the 2-3 citizens is all that matters (a mine on the hill will help, and the road towards horses can be built before the settler arrives. As we have only 1 builder and expect to have no more for some time, we won't be able to build the road towards Moscow from the northern horse city. Bringing unit factory towards enemy will save us 9 movement turns.
Drawbacks:
1. Distant - upkeep higher
2. Settler has to reach it - spend additional turns, means later development
3. Has to be no jungle on horses or russian city
4. Growth is limited till IW
5. Has to be protected against sudden counterattacks.

On the second thought - not that good idea. If it was bronze - maybe, but horses - hardly. Still, I might miss some points.

 

[Obormot]

Why do you think that CS slingshot was nerfed? Did i miss something about the new patch?

 

[Lexad]

Not slingshot itself - sorry if cofused anyone - but coupled with pyramids (for caste+representation and bureaucracy) as representation gives less happiness.

Awful thought - what if we're locked in peace with Russians?!! How to check this? War proposal option pops up in the diplomacy.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

About jungle movement - only mongolian keshiks ignore terrain.

As I understand the question was not about ignoring terrains. But about possibility for chariots to move on jungles. In civ3 they can't. But no problems for them in civ4.

Distance maintainance for Moscow seems to be just 2 gold.

 

[Obormot]

OK, then i think attacking them early is a good idea. But we'll need IW to utilize the other 2 gems. And i would first build 2 cities close to Thebes for cottage sharing.

The CoL->bureacracy slinghot is still great and the sooner we start getting bonus beakers, the better. We'll also be able to chop piramids very quickly with stone and bureacratic bonus. I would take the shortest possible path. We can build the Oracle using mines without chopping even without marble.

 

[Lexad]

It takes only comps that long to find copper We should decide then on war timing. Once we see a worker building a mine on a bare land we know we're late with chariot rush.

All the rest strat - unanimously

 

[Cat Behemoth]

If we are going to kill russians, I think that we can try to steal their worker. May be we direct our warrior close to corn and capture worker if he will try to farming it?

 

[akots]

Looks good.

EsatP dropped out of the roster.

Roster:
1. Dynamic - Just played, great start
2. Ptitsa Consul UP
3. Witan - Prepare to go
4. akots
5. Lexad
6. Obormot
7. Cat Behemoth

Next player (Ptitsa Consul) should take 20 turns.

It seems that Dynamic have clearly outlined the plan for these turns.