Cat Behemoth
Warlord
Ohhhh! Akbar to Allah for "Pyramids for AI". 
No we'll have normal cities. 
No we'll have normal cities. 
Sgotm 01 - C F R
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Ptitsa Consul
Chieftain
I agree with Dynamic & acots, that HG we can build when we can't build something better. AI construct HG rarely too - we have chanse to build it later...
What are you want to say?
Cat, I not understand your thought
What are you want to say?
My sentiments here: this one city leaves out fish and 3 flood plains. It wastes 1 flood plain for its location. If we ever build another city to grab FP, we'll have to build it on FP and thus waste one more, and we lose fish inevitably (as a food resource for 1 city, not the whole civ). It has 3 common cottages with Thebes while 2 cities have 5, especially the grass hill which Thebes won't start to use on its own soon - and I can see no good place on SW to take it.
If we construct 2 cities, both will be at the shore and thus able to build ships with no less shield count than one city.
2 cities give more base commerce in the long run, and even if we do not need it for science soon, we would still need it for money to keep domination running.
The 2s3e city will also be lower on health than 3s2e and thus develop slower.
The costs I see are 1 more settler and slower start of cottage development for 1 cottage (but soon cottage development for 2 more than with 1 city).
I want to make no use of my turnmaker position to decide on location, I might not see some points, so please expres your views and calculations.
Here's the pic again to make the decisions easier:
Yes, and on the afterthought, HG might as well go to hell
)
If we construct 2 cities, both will be at the shore and thus able to build ships with no less shield count than one city.
2 cities give more base commerce in the long run, and even if we do not need it for science soon, we would still need it for money to keep domination running.
The 2s3e city will also be lower on health than 3s2e and thus develop slower.
The costs I see are 1 more settler and slower start of cottage development for 1 cottage (but soon cottage development for 2 more than with 1 city).
I want to make no use of my turnmaker position to decide on location, I might not see some points, so please expres your views and calculations.
Here's the pic again to make the decisions easier:
Yes, and on the afterthought, HG might as well go to hell
)
The point of building HG is to generate an engineer to rush the UN. Since most propably we are going for domination in thise game (for reasons i explained earlier) we don't need it. I think we can build the Great Library though. We don't have marble, but with bureaucracy and organaised religion it can be built fast anyway. But for now it is just chariots, and more chariots
I don't understand what those "normal cities" mean. Me and others have already explained a lot of times why having an overlap between the capital and the first ring cities is good. And we are going to overlap cities anyway, just because we still need cottages to reach Astronomy and Guilds (and maybe more advanced military techs, though I still think that knights will be enough).
Edit on crosspost:
Lexad, i agree with you that building those 2 cities is better in the long run. Butr i am not sure if it will be so much better for us if our goal is only astronomy. I think we should already estimate now when astronomy will be reached and then decide. (And there is even a possibility that we don't need astronomy at all).
I don't understand what those "normal cities" mean. Me and others have already explained a lot of times why having an overlap between the capital and the first ring cities is good. And we are going to overlap cities anyway, just because we still need cottages to reach Astronomy and Guilds (and maybe more advanced military techs, though I still think that knights will be enough).
Edit on crosspost:
Lexad, i agree with you that building those 2 cities is better in the long run. Butr i am not sure if it will be so much better for us if our goal is only astronomy. I think we should already estimate now when astronomy will be reached and then decide. (And there is even a possibility that we don't need astronomy at all).
"Let's strategise!"
I've made several screens and we can see that close copper is already connected to StPeta and, I believe, Moscow. Russians have Novgorod which location we could not see from our northen posts but which could as well engult the second copper. Are we willing to risk WCs? We probably can't destroy the closer copper even now, because as you can see in the stack, Russians have already chariots and may as well have them in Piter. So, should we charge with WCs at all?
Close approaches
Moscow and muscovites
I've made several screens and we can see that close copper is already connected to StPeta and, I believe, Moscow. Russians have Novgorod which location we could not see from our northen posts but which could as well engult the second copper. Are we willing to risk WCs? We probably can't destroy the closer copper even now, because as you can see in the stack, Russians have already chariots and may as well have them in Piter. So, should we charge with WCs at all?
Close approaches
Moscow and muscovites
Cat Behemoth
Warlord
I just really dislike black city. I would build it 1 tile south. But SE-SE-E is also a good place.
My vote for HG - no. I think it absolutely useless in our situation. It's time to prepare for war. So, what our warrior do on the north?
PS. By the way, orange city is much worse than black. I want you to forget about it.
My vote for HG - no. I think it absolutely useless in our situation. It's time to prepare for war. So, what our warrior do on the north?
PS. By the way, orange city is much worse than black. I want you to forget about it.
Dynamic
But not hurry
We just need more WC.
What is the research plan? I propose to divert from straight Astronomy way for Iron Working to see the opportunities and threats more clearly before we go offensive. Maybe Moscow stands on Iron Meanwhile boat from third city will start exploring to check whether we need Astronomy.
Meanwhile boat from third city will start exploring to check whether we need Astronomy.akots
Poet
Dynamic said:
That is a very good and sound plan.
Cat Behemoth
Warlord
Ptitsa Consul said:Cat, I not understand your thought
What are you want to say?
I just miss "w" after "No".
Witan
Chieftain
I would like to see Obormot's turns description, before thinking about strategy...
Never Sleeping
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 17, 2006
- Messages
- 11
lol, akots, didn't know you are such a gambler and approved this plan. When we were playing PBEMs you were far more careful. When I realised when you researched mining and your best unit is still warrior I couldn't believe my eyes 
The approach of your team is very different to other teams so I find your thread very entertaining. Keep up a great job!
Random fan
P.S. I hope I am not spilling beans here and Alan won't ban me, but I guess everything I said you could figure out on yourself from the team-progress charts.
The approach of your team is very different to other teams so I find your thread very entertaining. Keep up a great job!
Random fan
P.S. I hope I am not spilling beans here and Alan won't ban me, but I guess everything I said you could figure out on yourself from the team-progress charts.
akots
Poet
Hi there, Random fan (if that is who you are). Have not seen you for a while. What happened to your "normal" nick?
I'm not sure what AlanH will do since indeed your conclusions are more or less evident and can be achieved by looking at the progress page.
I guess in Civ3, there was a farmers gambit and here in Civ4, there is a Civil Service gambit. Or call it scientist gambit.
What happened to your "normal" nick?I'm not sure what AlanH will do since indeed your conclusions are more or less evident and can be achieved by looking at the progress page.
I guess in Civ3, there was a farmers gambit and here in Civ4, there is a Civil Service gambit. Or call it scientist gambit.
Never Sleeping
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 17, 2006
- Messages
- 11
I just forgot the password, trying to recover now Also it seemed somehow fitting to create a new account for a new game. Anyway good luck and as a PBEMers would say "don't sit on a game!"
Also it seemed somehow fitting to create a new account for a new game. Anyway good luck and as a PBEMers would say "don't sit on a game!" Well, the f.ing work is over and I'm ready.
1. Research plan: maths(2)+IWorking(4) + fishing (2). This will help us to see enemy iron (if any) and our iron (if any), the latter's hammers could help in producing army. Also fishing would enable for the city built previous turn start building boat for maritime scouting.
Then perhaps continue to metal casting (road to astronomy) or Alphabet (road to GL and Herois Epic) - would also require Polytheism. Do we need GK for domination, having no marble, but plenty of wood? If we're stuck in the war with Russians, fast macemen/arbalestmen would be of much more use. Propose postponing Alphabet to Russia's end to force some techs from them.
1. Research plan: maths(2)+IWorking(4) + fishing (2). This will help us to see enemy iron (if any) and our iron (if any), the latter's hammers could help in producing army. Also fishing would enable for the city built previous turn start building boat for maritime scouting.
Then perhaps continue to metal casting (road to astronomy) or Alphabet (road to GL and Herois Epic) - would also require Polytheism. Do we need GK for domination, having no marble, but plenty of wood? If we're stuck in the war with Russians, fast macemen/arbalestmen would be of much more use. Propose postponing Alphabet to Russia's end to force some techs from them.
Sorry, I didn't make a detailed log because I did everything (build queues, worker movement and even MM) exactly according to the plan i posted before playing. I just didn't feel the need to repeat it all again. And all other events that happened i mentioned in my report.
That sounds good to me. We'll propbaly need drama anyway at some point to combat War Weariness by using the culture slider and perhaps building our cheap theatres. That's just one tech from Literature. I think GL will be a good wonder for us. We may want to research monotheism for organaised religion before chopping it though. After that either knights or astronomy, depending on what our boats find.
2. Worker queues.
Finish building quarry (1,5 turns not counting current) and mine (3), build roads (1 and 2) there (the mine road will save our chariots 1 turn later as it helps crossing hills). This will give us extra 9 + 4 (bureau) hammer potential for WC building. Then (the same turn as road at quarry, i.e. #3) start chopping wood along the road by 1 worker, continue with 2 for 4th turn (2nd worker is making use of his turn), then one of them goes E,EN and builds a road to speed up chariots from Memphis (3, 7) and another finishes the wood (2, 6) This happens the same turn settler pops and allows to build 1/2 of barracks immediately - or 1 WC each this turn and next. I feel the latter to be of more use early on, when it's crucial to meet as few spears as we can.
I propose then for the road-builder to go mine Memphis as it has less usable tiles than pop. We need 2 mines there and a cottage - we have happy limit of 5 (after we revolt back to c-zm at the war start), and disease of 2 makes us lose 1 food iw we work 2 mines. Switching 2 turns mine - 1 turn cottage will solve this and give extra commerce. So he goes N,NE, cott (1,8), NN mine (5, 13), mine (5, 18), ? cott (8, 26).
The third worker builds the mine and the road (5) and then starts preparing ground for the third city production (as food wil come from cottages shared with Thebes, but prod is needed for boat and WC). His moves depend on third city location, but it should be a mine.
The wood chopper can chop another wood without decreasing health - 1 more WC and + - and then might go help till Memphis.
Finish building quarry (1,5 turns not counting current) and mine (3), build roads (1 and 2) there (the mine road will save our chariots 1 turn later as it helps crossing hills). This will give us extra 9 + 4 (bureau) hammer potential for WC building. Then (the same turn as road at quarry, i.e. #3) start chopping wood along the road by 1 worker, continue with 2 for 4th turn (2nd worker is making use of his turn), then one of them goes E,EN and builds a road to speed up chariots from Memphis (3, 7) and another finishes the wood (2, 6) This happens the same turn settler pops and allows to build 1/2 of barracks immediately - or 1 WC each this turn and next. I feel the latter to be of more use early on, when it's crucial to meet as few spears as we can.
I propose then for the road-builder to go mine Memphis as it has less usable tiles than pop. We need 2 mines there and a cottage - we have happy limit of 5 (after we revolt back to c-zm at the war start), and disease of 2 makes us lose 1 food iw we work 2 mines. Switching 2 turns mine - 1 turn cottage will solve this and give extra commerce. So he goes N,NE, cott (1,8), NN mine (5, 13), mine (5, 18), ? cott (8, 26).
The third worker builds the mine and the road (5) and then starts preparing ground for the third city production (as food wil come from cottages shared with Thebes, but prod is needed for boat and WC). His moves depend on third city location, but it should be a mine.
The wood chopper can chop another wood without decreasing health - 1 more WC and + - and then might go help till Memphis.
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