Sgotm 01 - C F R

[akots]

I think after Writing, there should be Alphabet and then CoL and Civil Service from Oracle if possible. It is hard to say if this is possible however. It is also not known how many AIs are on this landmass. If there are too few, then Alphabet is rather useless. We would have to go for Priesthood then instead of Alphabet. So, big question mark in this case.

We will certainly be able to build Pyramids.

 

[akots]

Is EsatP planning to join you? I haven't seen him post in the signup thread or here. Please let me know if he's still on your team.

Indeed, EsatP dropped off. He will not be playing in this one.

 

[Ptitsa Consul]

UP, UP....

I've got save.
But I'm not understand our general strategy clearly (for my 20 turns). I'm not great player and I can crash our Great Game if I understand it bad...
I can't be online very much I connect to us at Moscow's evening 13th of May, read, ask, go and send MY save to morning of 14th...

Sorry for all...

PS
Some questions:
1. Can I open save, see and do nothing close it andthink about... Is it legal?
2. In which place I must put MY save?

PPS
Yes, I,m stupid, sometimes...

 

[akots]

That is OK, no big deal.

Just to make sure what to do:

On the next session I suppose we need to build Pasture on the Cow(6) and after Warrior 3 start Settler(15), then Library. Writing will be discovered in 12 turns.

Next science must be discussed and Worker job also. Warrior 1 go South after Open Borders, Warrior 2 go N along the coast and back. Somewhere in the fog exists wild animals so we need choose tiles carefully.

Also, if you meet at least 2 more other civs (excluding Inca), then we might need Alphabet. If not, from Writing you might go to some other tech leading to priesthood.

 

[Ptitsa Consul]

Good, all right. I'm disconnect now

 

[Obormot]

Attempting to steal a worker is tempting. But then our exploration will be blocked off. It looks like there might be some more land to the south of Moscow and perhaps another AI, especially if the map is hand made. As i said we need to explore early in this game to decide what our goal is. So i would say wait for Writing and then move south with Open Borders.

I think we should go directly to Bureaucracy and skip Alphabet to reduce the risk. Even if it allows us to get a few techs that we would have otherwise researched on our own (which may not be the case with only one neighbour) it won't be much and getting bureaucracy earlier adds up some bonus beakers too.

 

[Dynamic]

To Cat Begemoth: It's not Corn, It's Sugar near Moscow, so it will not used till Calendar.
I doubt that very early attack is good idea - realy it spend a big time. As was noted before we need Open Borders and explore South. Our Warrior must go on the West coast (couple of steps) because in other case it will be teleported to when Russian borders will grow. Worker - Pasture and then 3-d Cottage N from Cow. Then may be Road between rivers on NE. Tech - Mysticism after Writing. Warrior 2 along the coast - circle.
Don't forget set 3-d citizen on Flood Plain first then, 1 turn before Warrior 3 - on Cow.

 

[Lexad]

Maybe if we could see expected location of the 2nd city more clearly we could decide on our further strategy better? What if Whte Hawk makes several moves by the warrior and then posts a screen so that people can advise him on city location?

Dynamic, what is yor proposed war timing? I believe that 2nd city could be used solely for the purpose of chariot production, while capital continues to build whatever you would've built otherwise. If we put the 2nd city SE from horses, the river will counter the flood plains disease, and its own pastured cow will increase it.

By the way, that is why I would propose to start developing the 2nd city not by building the road between rivers - both cities would have worked cows by the river, so nothing to share really (that is, if we dn't use capital to build chariots) - but by pasturing the cow NNNE from capital - will be in our cultural borders in 5 turns. The road will come in later.

A tip - whenever moving your worker by 2 tiles to new building place, consider stopping him at the first and building useful improvement - and then cancelling work the same period. You would still start cultivating your initial destination tile only the next turn, but the game will remember the work hours, and later it would take you 1 turn less to finish the cultivation of the tile (by any worker).

 

[akots]

Maybe if we could see expected location of the 2nd city more clearly we could decide on our further strategy better? What if Whte Hawk makes several moves by the warrior and then posts a screen so that people can advise him on city location? ...

The game is in Consul's hands and he is free to do like he wants with it. This is basic of the SG ethics. So, let him do the thinking and calculating here and I'm sure everything will be just fine.

A tip - whenever moving your worker by 2 tiles to new building place, consider stopping him at the first and building useful improvement - and then cancelling work the same period. You would still start cultivating your initial destination tile only the next turn, but the game will remember the work hours, and later it would take you 1 turn less to finish the cultivation of the tile (by any worker).

This is a good tip but it will not work if the destination tile is a hill which will consume both worker moves.

If we plan on using it extensively, we would need to keep track of these things.

Also, I completely agree with Dynamic here. Early war usually is not a good idea if playing a research-based game which this one might very well be. As long as there is no danger for logbowmen appearing as AI defenders, we are in a good position to kill any AI we want with war chariots only.

 

[akots]

... I think we should go directly to Bureaucracy and skip Alphabet to reduce the risk. Even if it allows us to get a few techs that we would have otherwise researched on our own (which may not be the case with only one neighbour) it won't be much and getting bureaucracy earlier adds up some bonus beakers too.

We still can get CS with a prophet if we ignore masonry. It would all depend on how well we can expand and what other AIs will be around. Overall, researching up to Priesthood will also take considerable time. Trading is a tricky business though and sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. However, if going for Domination, early Bronze and Iron Working are crticial techs as well even if Astronomy is required. I'd say it is 50-50 overall. Just to emphasize again, we are not playing for the score. We can get to Domination by leaving gaps between our cities and a few turns before the win, we just fill in these gaps with settlers, hire artists in these cities and expand their borders rapidly, so that the limit can be reached painlessly without slowing down research too much if we ever need to. But usually by the end of the game, the research is not important at all.

 

[Lexad]

At pop 2 the 2nd city positioned SE from horses will produce 1+3+3 = 7 hammers = chariot almost every 5 turns. At pop 3 another 2 (from grass cow) or 4 (from hill mine - if we have mining) hammers arrive, decreasing builtime to "almost 4" - "almost 3" turns respectively.

My proposed improvement order (we have 7+15 = 22 turns before settler pops up, and then he takes 3 more turns to found a new city)asture (6)+cottage north of it, as Dynamic proposed (8) = 14. Thus we've improved tiles for pop 4 at Thebes which should be sufficient for at least 36/4+39/5+42/6 = 24 turns after settler. If we don't build settlers or workers in the capital.
Then NE, cottage, cancel; goto cows, pasture - and it's finished the turn before settler pops up. Then N, road, cancel; N, road (3), pasture(6). We get horses tiled and linked 6 turns after the 2nd city is built - the quickest way possible - and 2 worked tiles for it also. After that we can mine a hil (if we have mining) or build a cottage on flood plains to the south. But to develop both cities we might require additional worker.

 

[Lexad]

The game is in Consul's hands and he is free to do like he wants with it. This is basic of the SG ethics. So, let him do the thinking and calculating here and I'm sure everything will be just fine.

Course, I'm just tryin to be helpful, cuz the early game is the one I'm best in. Meaning the other stages I lay worse

This is a good tip but it will not work if the destination tile is a hill which will consume both worker moves.

- naturally, that's just a guideline, not the rule.

Also, I completely agree with Dynamic here. Early war usually is not a good idea if playing a research-based game which this one might very well be. As long as there is no danger for logbowmen appearing as AI defenders, we are in a good position to kill any AI we want with war chariots only.

But the majority of our research is expected to come from the capital, so it might be reasonable to make 2nd city a unit producer with high shield count while the first still pumps libraries and stuff.

 

[akots]

... But the majority of our research is expected to come from the capital, so it might be reasonable to make 2nd city a unit producer with high shield count ...

I like the idea. Build some units and go all over the map. Spill some enemy blood so to speak.

 

[Dynamic]

I just calculated our approximate development using peace way. Very nice way without deadlocks. Of course I don't know yet about other civ so I skip it.

The Science way is Writing(12), Mysticism(7), Meditation(9), Priesthood(5), Code of Laws(~25), Mining(~3), Masonry(~3), Bronze Working(~4), Mathematics(~9)...

Thebes produces Warrior(7), Settler(15), Library(~23), Settler(13), Worker(7), Worker(6),Pyramids(~10) with 3 chops under Mathematics and Bureaucracy up to 112 hammers.

Second City on SE from Horse produces Warrior(7), 1 turn of Barracks then Oracle(29), Worker (6), Barracks(?), then Chariots.

Third city on the coast SE,SE,E from Capital (?)

Worker 1 Build Pasture then 3-d Cottage, Road between rivers then Pasture on north Cow, Pasture on Horse, Pasture on NE Cow, Road on Horse, Cottage near Second city then Cottage between Capital and 3-d city then go to Stone with road. Next 2 Workers from Capital helps on Stone then build Mine on Plain Hill then chop.
Oracle will be ready 4-5 turns later then CoL.

 

[Dynamic]

Note, near Forest chop is calculated like (Base +100%(Stone)+50%(Bureaucracy))*1.5(Math) = (30(Epic)+30+15)*1.5=112

 

[Lexad]

Third city on the coast SE,SE,E from Capital (?)

Worker 1 Build Pasture then 3-d Cottage, Road between rivers then Pasture on north Cow, Pasture on Horse, Pasture on NE Cow, Road on Horse, Cottage near Second city then Cottage between Capital and 3-d city then go to Stone with road. Next 2 Workers from Capital helps on Stone then build Mine on Plain Hill then chop.
Oracle will be ready 4-5 turns later then CoL.

Scientific and Capital build side is excellent, but do we need road so early? There're no resources to share or religion to spread. Maybe faster cow and then horse and other improvements for the 2nd city.

Third city 2S3E - maybe put 2 cities: 3S2E (+1health, also reaches clam, can help capital work 2 cottages) and 4E (-1 health, but also reaches fish and extra flood plain, can help capital work 3 cottages)? This will save you flood plain from under the city and also give decent place for the 4th, which will otherwise will be hard to find (and without a city east of capital we won't work 3 flood plains.

And I'm pro fast war city, as you might've noticed Although I see your point on Oracle for fast bureau and pyramids - it's riskless and we can then take Russians out by macemen.

 

[AlanH]

Indeed, EsatP dropped off. He will not be playing in this one.

Thanks for the update, akots. I'll stop looking out for him.

 

[Dynamic]

Scientific and Capital build side is excellent, but do we need road so early? There're no resources to share or religion to spread. Maybe faster cow and then horse and other improvements for the 2nd city.

This single tile road gives trade route between cities (+2 commerce at the beginning). Better make it early and then don't think about it. Delay on Cow is not so critical...

 

[Lexad]

Didn't think of it. Thanks for pointing out!

 

[Obormot]

I just calculated our approximate development using peace way. Very nice way without deadlocks. Of course I don't know yet about other civ so I skip it.

The Science way is Writing(12), Mysticism(7), Meditation(9), Priesthood(5), Code of Laws(~25), Mining(~3), Masonry(~3), Bronze Working(~4), Mathematics(~9)...

Thebes produces Warrior(7), Settler(15), Library(~23), Settler(13), Worker(7), Worker(6),Pyramids(~10) with 3 chops under Mathematics and Bureaucracy up to 112 hammers.

Second City on SE from Horse produces Warrior(7), 1 turn of Barracks then Oracle(29), Worker (6), Barracks(?), then Chariots.

Third city on the coast SE,SE,E from Capital (?)

Worker 1 Build Pasture then 3-d Cottage, Road between rivers then Pasture on north Cow, Pasture on Horse, Pasture on NE Cow, Road on Horse, Cottage near Second city then Cottage between Capital and 3-d city then go to Stone with road. Next 2 Workers from Capital helps on Stone then build Mine on Plain Hill then chop.
Oracle will be ready 4-5 turns later then CoL.

Wow! That is quite impressive to plan so far ahead. I am not that good But i like your plan. We set up 2 cities to share tiles with the capital and we capture those gem mines fairly early.