Sgotm 01 - C F R

[akots]

I think overall, a city on desert, 1 south of black spot, might be an OK city. It can work some cottages for capital, has access to fish and clams and can make some shields working deser hills.

But it might be a good idea to build a city down to the south just to stop Russian expansion. Also, we don't know where copper or iron are.

This is current situation and the suggested black dot of city 3.

It seems, good idea might be to go for a worker first, who can build some roads which we eventually will need anyhow if there is some wondow left from building cottages.

 

[Obormot]

1S of black dot is a terrible idea as i alredy said. It will be unhealthy at size 1! Even with the cow connected.

 

[Dynamic]

I planned to found 3-d city SE,SE,E from Capital and don't settle anymore before war end, but, in this case we lost several flood tiles. In other hand we could have enaugh powerfull city with small maintence.

 

[Lexad]

CoL gives us Confucianism in foundation city and missionary to spread it to the second - so it would hardly spread itself. We can have Judaism later with Russian cities
Obormot, my map is right after yours (5th page)
Third city: Dynamic proposed building 3rd settler after Library, so we should decide now. I'd put it at Purple site (SE from cows) as it will have health higher than Black by 2, will be able to work cottages and, if need arises, cow. 1S from Black has disease from start as it is not connected to rivers.
3E2S has lower health than Purple (3S2E), costs 1 flood plain and makes us ponder where to put 4th city. However, no extensive calculations on my part.

Btw, can religion spread without trade routes? Cause we have none with Russians.

 

[Lexad]

By the way, Witan, I can't see mistake in your road on horses - you would still till all tiles before pop 3. And we're not in a great hurry to grow (only then we would like to till it faster to work it at pop 2 as soon as we can) as health will become a pressing matter in Memphis at pop 4 (=in 12 turns). Thus, maybe we should build a mine near Memphis next, so that we could use it at pop 4.

But we should not build fast cities SW just to prevent Russian expansion. We don't mind it at all

When we start war with Russians, we'd better scout to their south to see whether there is some space SE from Moscow uncovered by Russian territory. We might put our armies there and have them reach Mosow in couple of turns, while attacking Piter with new army from the North.

Also, if the small peninsula SW from Moscow will be covered by Russian territory (if there's a city, that is), place a Scout there before declaring war - he will be teleported to the land we see!

 

[Cat Behemoth]

akots, Yes, yes! Build it there!

And I agree with Dynamic - we must say "No!" to orange city.

 

[Lexad]

I'd rather reconsider - it would spoil the place of 2 cities and won't be able to support capital because of low health = low growth = bad city. We need 2 cities to work all good tiles to the SE (fish, clam and all flood plains), and I can reasonably see no other allocation than proposed by Obormot and me. Let's take time to discuss, cause this wll determine our future opportunities.

I have no problems with Orange insofar. After it leaves all Fat Cross capital tiles to Thebes, it still has 4 grasslands + 1 grassland with cow + 1 ocean with fish + 8 coasts + 1 ocean and 1 hill and with lighthouse, even if you mine the hill, you still have 4 food extra after cottaging all the tiles = 2 specialists (pop max = 18). Fine enough in the long run (with commerce from 4 cottages and sea), and in the short, thanx to cow and fish, you can grow fast and work the cottage grasslands for Thebes, or swith to production by mining the hill and build an army. But we do not need it as the 3rd city, as we need the forest chops for Thebes.

 

[akots]

[1] Stonehenge was built somewhere. Might be we are not the only ones who have stone. Barbarians from north move south. Moved warrior from pasture on horses to forest to meet them as well as the other warrior from Memphis. Worker finished pasture on cows and will go to road the horses. I want to build one chariot at least in the capital to deal with barbarians before going for a worker there.

[2] Road on horses built, barbarians are thinking but not going after Memphis yet.

[4] Library ready, Immediately set 2 scientists in Thebes, CoL ready in 13 turns. Thebes is working 3 cottages now. We need another happy face there and getting religion seems to be the best choice. Set to build chariot but it will be ready only in 17 turns.

IBT: Both barbarian warriors died to our brave soldiers and the north is safe for now. I leave one warrior to watch over there and another returns to Memphis.

[5] Memphis grows to size 3 and Oracle will be ready in 17 turns there. Hopefully, we can get it.

[6] There is an exposed Russian worker building a pasture on cow. We can grab him but it might be a bit dangerous, Russia seems to be pretty powerful.

[10] There is not much going on, I think I’ll take a few more turns, at least till we discover CoL.

[14] Russia moves a yet another settler up north in our direction escorted with 2 archers.

[16] Memphis grows and get an unhealthy icon as expected. We need to hook up rice. But worker is building cottage on flood plains.

IBT. We get CoL and Confucianism as expected. I do not revolt, it is up to the next player.

[17] Research set to mining ready in 4, Oracle will be ready in Memphis in 5 turns. We have 66 out of 150 GPPs in Thebes which is still building the chariot. Thebes grows in 4 and can be size 6 with religion.

I think the only doubt I have is switching Thebes to two scientists. But we need the Academy there and the sooner the better. There might be one problem however. It if that Russia might come and kill us now at any time. I think we will survive though.

There is nothing new going on, so I have not many pictures. We can revolt to Castle system if we wish but there is little benefit from it now. Memphis has Confucian missionary but I have not moved him. It seems he can go to Thebes to spread religion there. Here is Russian settler/archer trio and it does not look good. If it were a multiplayer game, we would have been long dead...

 

[akots]

I'd rather reconsider - it would spoil the place of 2 cities and won't be able to support capital because of low health = low growth = bad city. ...

The city will be excellent. To fight against bad health, we just need more food. And the city will have a lot of food from fish and clams. It will even be able to grow working cottage for the capital, just slightly more slowly.

I'm also pretty much convinced that we have to kill Russia and we have to do it very soon. Otherwise, we are risking to get cornered really badly.

 

[Lexad]

Some minor long-run calculations (as most people are concerned that after working the cottages for Thebes - and Memphis! for Black city - they wil become useless):
I presume that Thebes and Memphis will take all he land they can, and as they have more cottageable land, this would be efficient. Then
- Black city has for its own use 3 flood plains (assume cottages everywhere possible hereafter), ocean with fish, 5 coasts and hill = even if we mine the hill, 10 pop + 6 spare food = 3 specialists more = 13 pop. We can manage pop as we want with growth of 2 from town + 3 from flood plains + 3 from fish = 8/turn!
- Purple city has 1 flood plain, 2 grasses, 1 hill, coast with clam, 8 coasts = 13 pop + 3 extra food
- they also share 2 flood plains which we can give to any city. To reach steady state (0 growth at limit in both) we can build cottage on each, and depending on sharing, in one city mine will be replaced by windmill.

Reposting the pic to make it more visuable:

 

[Lexad]

Blin, too late

By the way, akots, you already have confucianism in Thebes as I can see. Maybe keep it for 3rd city.

Have you finished the turn or we're discussing?

 

[akots]

I'm finished, Obormot is UP

Indeed, CoL is already in Thebes. So, we save missionary for the 3rd city then.

 

[Lexad]

The city will be excellent. To fight against bad health, we just need more food. And the city will have a lot of food from fish and clams. It will even be able to grow working cottage for the capital, just slightly more slowly.

I just have to disagree. The city will be bad:
1. early game - as it's low health and thus low growth would not allow it to work much capital cottages fast enough
2. late game as it will work 5 flood plains out of 6 spare, 1 out of 2 grass and 1 out of 2 plain hills, 9 instead of 15 water tiles = less commerce (8+7 from towns+6*2 from coasts+2 from ocean instead of coast = 29 less base commerce), and will be hampered by low health

Well, all in all, good game, akots!

Russians are expanding very fast. I fear if we try to attack them with chariots only (and even axemen) and they have metal, it'll be a long war. Moscow has already 13 shields of base production = chariot every 3 turns, axeman or spearman - every 4 - and can use forest tiles to increase it . We must crush them technologically - that is, get metal casting and machinery after CS and fishing and crush them by a later-era macemen. And the joy of CS-slingshot - we can dpo it soon!

 

[akots]

1S of black dot is a terrible idea as i alredy said. It will be unhealthy at size 1! Even with the cow connected.

With cow and rice it will be OK. We then can build 2 workboats and work fish and clams and this will be enough up to size 6.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

I just have to disagree. The city will be bad.

I think victory here could be your. Obormot is the next and seems to be on your site. So, he just can build this city on your place.

One more thing - if orange and purple city will be built, I propose the fifth city on the west of rice with the slogan: "Kill that bureaucratic capital!!!"

 

[Lexad]

The point is not about sides, CB, it's about early growth rates and kate game efficiency. And Bureaucratic capital will have it Fat Cross of 20 tiles after other cities help it cultivate the cottages, with other cities having great tiles also: east cities - one sea food resource each for growth, one hill for production, and flood plaains for commerce; Orange in the West will have even 2 food resources! I hope I've also shown that the cities will be great and we can fats get them to whatever size we like after happiness and health constraints slacken by using food resources and flood plains.

And both I and Obormot came to the eastern cities conclusion simultaneously, so don't call it my site

If anyone has objections backed up with numbers, please present them. The only 1 I can see is that we have to build 1 more settler - but we already are low on health and happiness, even after representation, rice, and fish our main 2 cities will have to stop the growth by producing settlers and workers.

And if we don't have metal and Russia has (and far from us), we're screwed

 

[Lexad]

By the way, from the Power graph at team stats page seems that all 4 of the teams that have already reached the same date have gone for fast chariots. However, our score is higher

 

[Lexad]

Obormot, you might want to reconsider worker task, production in Thebes, and Citizen allocation there. We won't be beaten to Academy, but we can be to Pyramids, and we seem to divert from the graph. Another worker, maybe. I believe you know best (and much better than me) what to do here

 

[Cat Behemoth]

And both I and Obormot came to the eastern cities conclusion simultaneously, so don't call it my site

Yes, of course. I was sure it's a plot!

Indeed I have just egoistic purposes. It will be uncomfortable for me to play with 5 cities on about 50 tiles. Too much MM is tiring.

 

[Dynamic]

Too early scientists, I think. I hoped to save its for Representation after Pyramids with grater effect...