SGOTM 01 - Fifth Element

[Perugia]

Culture slider for unhappiness could be a good idea once the big Persian cities come out of resistance as they might get +1 cpt to speed border expansion and thus minimise starvation. But it's not worth it unless oveall science + gold are not unduly affected.

We don't want to whip too much as pop=votes in the UN.

Merum, what do you think of the new system? Please give it a try and collate the ideas for this turn.

 

[Perugia]

I'm ready to play! Has anyone got any more comments?

With Liberalism due in 1. I really could do with some input on Technology.

Gandhi already has Astronomy, Nationalism and Printing Press but none of them are on the table. Gandhi & FDR are willing to trade Divine Right but it's of no use to us. We are ahead of Cyrus (Music) and Saladin (Banking, Education).

Research options are Astronomy, Nationalism, Printing Press, Gunpowder, Economics, Divine Right

Printing press will net us about 23gpt from towns and villages. Astronomy will potentially replace our trade routes with more lucrative foreign ones and beat this. Trouble is both FDR and Gandhi are running Merchantilism so we'd only get trade routes with Saladin.

We would probably do best with Printing Press and Mercantilism as Sally will probably go Mercantilism as well once he gets Banking.

Incidentally we could have switched to Mercantilism 3 turns ago when we traded for Banking from FDR. This will give us a free specialist in each city which provides great flexibility.

Anyone agree with Printing Press or would the free Great Merchant of Economics be better? Trouble is that's a bit of a dead end tech.

 

[Doom Train]

my vote goes for Printing Press. We are in war and we need money to pay maintance of new cities...

 

[BrianS]

Also agree with Printing Press. Gets us coin and is on the path to Rifling.

 

[Doom Train]

Completed the story for spoiler topic and Pm ed all of you. Please send your comments via PM so i can make approppriete corrections before posting.

 

[Merum]

Hi all,

I wanted to drop in and tell you that I'm in the middle of a very trying business trip in Florida, and so did not have the chance to do the checklist thing. However, I agree with the checklist.

I mentioned before that I was having trouble finding information in posts. I think, for me, that's a combination of the way we're using spoilers, and having so many thoughts appended to earlier posts.

Having said that, I'd like to propose that continued turnsets and additional thoughts be made in new posts rather than appended to others that may very well be a page back or more by the time the information becomes critical. Saving space is great, but having to re-read pages of thread to look for additions leads to things being missed, IMO.

BTW, I'm on board for SGOTM2, if there's interest from the rest of the team.

 

[gskur]

this is the info I saw on SGOM1 and SGOM2.

 

[Perugia]

@All. It's great to hear there's interest in reforming for SGOTM2, I suppose that what some call espirit de corps.

@Doom Train. Thanks for the spoiler. Forgive me if I don't comment until I have posted my turnset. I should have a good opportunity to review the spoiler Sunday morning.

@Merum. China, Florida.... sounds like you've been trying a bit of circumnavigation yourself! Glad you agree to the checklist thing. you're right about the trick being making sure nothing is missed. Despite having done it myself frequently, I now agree that previous posts shouldn't be appended to and we use new posts only. Edits should only be made for when constructing the post (eg adding screenies) and for corrections.

@All. I'm going to begin the turnset now and will play 10 turns. more if peace breaks out.

Checklist stuff for this turn. The consensus is we take Printing Press so I'll be doing that. In the spirit of the current organisational thinking, I'll also address everything summarised in post #518. I'll take the general silence on Civics and Great People points this turnset as a vote of confidence in my abilities and will tweak these aspects as I see fit.

 

[Perugia]

As part of organisation we could use the message icons to indicate content.

This is an idea post so it got the lightbulb,also available are with potential meanings
Hi - Hi
X-eyes-
Chili -
red eyes -
Taoism -
Brown face -
Eating face -
Green smile
Mischivous face -
Poison -
Scan - I looked at the save and.....
Cool - agree with smart idea
Crazy face-
Thumb up - agree
Post - Important message to read
Arrow - Plan
Lightbulb - Idea
Pling - danger, watch out
? - Question
Angry face - Irritated
smile - good
frown - Unhappy
-
Red face -
-
Thumbs down - disagree

Civ4 Icons - we could write posts on a single subject

 

[Perugia]

I've played my turnset. I was rather irritated by some omissions by the team for instance we are still not running any artists even though there are 3 cities we plan to culture bomb on the Persian Indian borders.

Anyhow we learned Liberalism, Printing Press & Astronomy and had a revolution.

The war with Cyrus continued, we lost a few more units when defending as we still don't have balanced stacks over there. I'm using lots of ship chaining to redress the balance and suceeded in capturing Pasargadae (edit & Tarsus) with only catapult loss. The next player can capture Bactra, culture bomb it and declare peace with Cyrus so we can get the economy back on track.

Full report and save to follow.

 

[Perugia]

Pre-turn - 1394AD

First job is to get WW and starvation under control. Hopefully we will eventually aquire the Persian silk at Arbela but we can’t afford to hang around for that right now and regretfully we trade Gems for Gandhi’s silk.

We also increase the culture slider to 10% removing all unhappy citizens in Moscow, Pi-Ramesses and Heliopolis. This frees up 5 MPs one of which arrives in Thebes. I MM cities to remove the engineers that the governor always put there when removing an unhappy citizen.

For now we have only 10 unhappy citizens in the Egyptian empire.

Looking at the recently captured prize of Persepolis in awe . This really is a great prize with forge, lighthouse, mahabodhi, market and an academy! It also has a granary, 2 crab and 3 fish just outside the culture radius. This is going to make s. I vote we build the Globe Theatre there so it can grow to the health limit. Backing my plan, I put a Theatre in the queue which will start when the resistance ends in 5 turns.

Memphis starts a missionary (due in 3) so we can spread Buddhism to Sidon to take full advantage of the Religion civics.

Thebes is switched from research to Theatre (63 hammers per turn due to creative trait and due in 2) for happy bonus from Gandhi’s dye and the culture slider.

Despite me posting about it a while back we still have a workboat sleeping off the coast of India that is costing us support. Gift it to Gandhi.

Land 2 healthy units and 1 slightly damaged ones from navy S of Pasargadae to hill as per plan. As healing is faster in city, transport a heavily wounded mace & cat to Persepolis to join 2 healing maces there. When healed will return to the hill.

Load 3 units at Sidon onto galleys in the strait so they can amphibiously assault Tarsus next turn if needed to kill wounded defenders.

Two workers look set to build a plantation we can’t work N of Moscow, I know that once we learn astronomy we’ll need a spare sugar plantation for trade but there’s one already at Heliopolis that just needs hooking up to the road network. I want some workers in the N so send Rosicky there. Apprentice stays put but just builds a road on the N of Moscow sugar so when we need the plantation a worker team can use road movement to get there.

Spread the galleys off Pasargadae about to allow a bit of ship chaining and hold a coupke of caravels nearby for protection. Send a caravel anti-clockwise round our continent to watch for any HC trouble off Giza. There are 2 other caravels out exploring.

Employ 2 artists at Moscow in an attempt to get another Great Artist.

Find we not only have Valmiki hiding in Calcutta but also a worker named Klose that makes a run for the N coast to be ferried home. The caravel with Valmiki loaded on board heads home on the S coast.

Cyrus has a knight in Gordium I hadn’t seen before. We have a spearman in Arbella that could do with upgrading to a pike to deal with it. Can’t do it while the city is in resistance though.

MM Alex for longbow in 1 so we can drop Vassalage next turn.


Turn 1 1400AD

Klose is killed by a Persian knight from Libyan – , I was sort of warned.

We learn Liberalism so I press F4 but there are no deals on offer except Divine Right. Press exit and choose Printing Press as our free tech. Ignore the Free Religion pop-up to ensure our Military built this turn get the Vassalage experience.

Alex Longbow>University
Sidon starts harbour. This will be chopped.

Select Astronomy to put one turns worth of beakers into it to see if that makes Gandhi put it on the table.

Maceman C1 pillages mine NE of Libyan for 9g

Spotted something odd here. Macemen can’t heal in Persepolis. That’s weird! Move them in Persepolis into neutral territory to heal instead. What! Catapult in the city can heal?

Ship a Mace out from Persepolis to disembark on the iron road next turn. Fortify existing iron "cutting" mace on the other road. This is a hill and delay any Persian forces attempting to capture Persepolis back.

Promote Mace in Arbela to Medic1.

Cyrus is upgrading to Pikes, he now has 2 longs, 1 archer and 1 pike in Tarsus. Need full strength reinforcements.

Tarsusian worker disembarks at Sidon and starts a chop. This chop will be interrupted before it completes so it can be used when we are running Organised Religion for +25% hammers.

Now thinking about Civics for this turn. Per my usual spiritual technique I’m going to forgo both Vassalage & Theocracy right now for one revolution as there are not many units popping out in the near future as Knights are lining up in the build queues and will take a while as they are expensive.

We have about 11 towns while Thebes has a base commerce of 44 so the commerce effects of Bureaucracy and Free Speech are about the same at at 22 . I think Bureaucracy just has the edge at the moment so we can get a few more hammers in the capital as it is our premier commerce city and needs grocer, bank and observatory. Once the Persian holdings come out of resistance, Free Speech will be better for the lower maintenance and double culture effect.

I’m sticking with Serfdom for now as I want to get some chops going.

For now I’m going with Free Religion for the extra :smilie: and +10% . I'm adopting Mercantilism for the free specialists as we have no foreign trade routes at the moment.

Before
Research (50%) 161
Culture (10%) 137
Gold (40%) 103
Treasury 425 – 54/Turn

Government: Hereditary Rule
Legal: Vassalage > Bureaucracy
Labor: Serfdom
Economy: Decentralisation>Mercantilism
Religion: Paganism>Free Religion

After
Research (50%) 214
Culture (10%) 145
Gold (40%) 117
Treasury 425 – 55/Turn

Astronomy due in 21 (but well be able to trade for it soon).

Go round each city selecting my choice of free specialist and not what the AI governor thinks best.

Start bombing Pasargadae.

Turn 2 - 1406AD

Gandhi offers DR & 160g for Liberalism. We decline.

Cyrus kills our healing mace at Arbela with a cat. I’m getting worried that his counterattacks will keep hurting us real bad like at Gordium. I’ll try to ship chain some Longbows into Arbela and Persepolis plus build a few pikemen.

Now that Cyrus is down to one coastal city on the east coast we don’t need to keep our galleys and caravels together for protection. Instead we can blockade Pasargadae and the strait in the south. This will allow the creation of a ship chain of galleys to speed troop movement to the front.

Land Mace on Cyrus iron road. Pillage other one

Our catapult at 0.5% odds destroys a long and does 3 CD at Tarsus. Gains 8XP in one turn

We suicide another CD2 cat and then our maces and crossbow mop up the defenders. Another 130gold to the treasury and a worker. Send a chariot to sit on Cyrus’s horse pasture.

Ship chain Buddhist missionary all the way from Persepolis to within 1 turns movement of Pi-Ramesses (15 tiles total movement) using Caravel and Galley transport .

Thebes Theatre>Grocer. Frees up 2 MPs that I send to Memphis & Giza.

Made a mistake at Sidon so switch production Harbor>Lighthouse.


Turn 3 – 1412AD

FDR has Astronomy so its cheaper for us and Gandhi will deal it but we don’t have enough to offer (should be tradable for Liberalism once we have about 1000 beakers in). FDR doesn’t have Astronomy on the table at the moment so I hang on to Liberalism and Printing Press.

Sell Rice to FDR for Deer and Gems for Sheep.

FDR willing to war on HC for Printing Press but hold off until can make Astronomy deal ourselves.

War weariness now ballistic 8 unhappy faces in some cities up culture to 20%
Ship chain delivers 2 longbowmen to Arbela.

Caravel finds an uncolonised island with deer and fur SE of PI-Ramesses

Start an explorer for use as rapid medic force .

Turn 4 – 1418AD

Spread Buddhism to Pi-Ramesses & Sidon.

Gandhi is sending a settler to the deer fur island. We need galleons!
Gandhi has economics.

Caravel meets Cyrus caravel in the ice NW of India near 2 tile whale island. 2 more maces arrive at the gates of Pasargadae and defenses dowm to 24%

Persepolis and Arbela come on stream and are starving > theatres. Arbela under culture pressure from Cyrus. Need slavery!! Persepolis unconnected need Astronomy.

Now allowed to upgrade spearman in Arbela to Pikeman C2. Feel a bit safer now especially as Cyrus’s 2 knights are visible in Gordium.

Sidon border expands bringing clams & incense inside our borders.


Turn 5 – 1424AD

Delay some unit builds as we are not running vassalage/theocracy just now but can revolt from next turn! Heliopolis builds a knight by mistake – never mind.

Bombard force arrives outside Bactra.

Rice at Alex now irrigated.


Turn 6 – 1430AD

Borders of Persepolis expand

Revolt to Vassalage, Organised Religion & Slavery
Whip theatres in Persepolis and Arbela which eliminates starvation.

Look around for forests to chop on buildings/wonders to make the most of Organised Religion.

Employ 2 artists at Moscow in an attempt to get another Great Artist (thinking to myself that we need the National Epic).

FDR has Astronomy so we sell him sugar for 9 gpt.

We have not got too much excess unhealthiness and need cash so cancel pig for rice deal with Gandhi and sell him rice instead for 10gpt.

Move the stack outside Bactra onto hill instead of bombarding from plains for added protection.

Ship chain 2 waves of assault force from Tarsus and Persepolis into position outside Pasargadae. Will unload next turn to join bombardment force already there.

Turn 7 – 1436AD

Arbela Theatre>Temple
Persepolis Theatre> Globe Theatre
Tarsus on stream>Theatre
3 Military units built.
Chop forest for 112 hammers in Pi-Ramesses (Temple(x2) + Organised religion) overflow goes towards Knight.

WW and the civics are being a pain, research only 30% and culture 10% for +7gpt.

Spot a Cyrus galley loaded with Knight and Horse archer NW of Tarsus. Send caravel to intercept. We lose at 90% odds!!!!!!

Bombardment of Bactra started.

Turn 8 – 1442 AD

Persian crossbow leaves Pasargadae and kills our pike that just left Arbela. Fair exchange I say!

2 more military produced under Vassalage.

Thebes Grocer>Bank
Elephantine Explorer>Temple
Giza Theatre>University

Arbela border expands but only into the sea! Rush the temple.

Persian galley did not unload – it was headed for our chariot zzzing on Cyrus’s horses. We sink it along with a horse archer and knight The fool!

Battle for Pasargadae.

6 Mace + 4 catapult (2 wounded) vs 3 Long, 1 Pike, 1 catapult. Sacrifice the 2 healthy cats. Mace now have 78% chance against CD2 long. Here we go. Use the CA2 maces in approx reverse order of XP as firtst stike can be a pain and the most XP is least damaged.

All survive 0.4/8 3.7/8, 0.3/8, 8/8, 7/8. Move C2 mace and remaining cat into city. 169 gold captured so increase science to 40%.

Arbella now has some land to work including wines, Persepolis can work all its sea resources, is growing at +20 food per turn and is connected along the coast. This place is really going to grow quick at +20 excess food per turn and will need a worker. As this is the Globe Theatre city only the odd plains hill forest should be chopped leaving +2 health from the remaining 4.

Quickly check in with our AI friends. Gandhi is now running free market so in 3 turns we might want to drop merchantilism to get thos lucrative foreign trade routes.

Sell incense to FDR for fur.

Cyrus’s knights are sitting tight in Gordium. They will be no match for our pikemen.

Ship chain now shortened to allow ferry service from Sidon to Arbela and onward by road to Pasargadae. Pasargadae-Persepolis service remains as the cyrus Longbow on the iron blocks the road. No need to remove it as we have loads of galleys.


Turn 9 - 1448AD

Cyrus’s crossbow kills our C2 mace in Pasargadae.

Heliopolis Lighthouse>University
Arbela Temple>Temple
Cyrus converts to Judaism.
Ship chain reinforcements to Arbela

Gandhi now has Liberalism. But luckily FDR will now trade Astronomy and HC has it!!!!!! Need to prepare defenses in the North.

FDR will trade DR + Astronomy, his WM and 30 gold for PP and Liberalism.

I remove Devine Right and get him to DoW on HC instead. Forcing him to adopt Vassalage for good measure.

Start on Sci Method.


Turn 10 – 1454AD

Sell cow to Saladin for 5gpt and fish for corn.
We have excess health at the moment do cancel Wheat/Sugar deal with Gandhi.

Cyrus cat & cross bow attack Pasargade and kill a Mace but out knight kills the Crossbow then moves in to defend Pasargadae.

One of his knights moves towards our force at bactra but reinforcements are on the way
Start Galleon at Pi-Ramesses. No way can we afford to upgrade our galleys and they will still be useful. Can be changed.

Borders of Tarsus expand.

 

[Perugia]

Here are some random thoughts...

War

There are still some units to move but I've already done most. Running 10% culture means there’s some excess mp’s so we could take the opportunity to shuffle them around to prepare a reception should HC land from a galleon.

HC C1 FS1 caravel spotted East of Arbela. Depending which way it goes, we could empty our treasury to upgrade a galley in Arbela or Persepolis. Note we also now have a medic galley healing in Tarsus and a Medic Explorer on a galley next door that I think will prove useful.

Valmiki is currently in Arbela but needs to be escorted with heavy military protection across hostile Persian territory towards Bactra before we declare peace (in case Cyrus wont give us open borders). It’s a long way round the mountains via India otherwise. There’s a knight in Tarsus and one in Pasargadae that can do this when the time comes.

As soon as Bactra is ours we should declare peace and can send forces into India to get real close to Cyrus’s remainng 3 cities and wipe him out 10 turns later. Will need to use those 10 turns in Pacifism to generate the Great Artist we need for 2 more culture bomns or Gordium & susa will flip to Gandhi.


Economy

We should stay in Organised religion at the next revolution as Rosicky a worker is in a forest 3 tiles from Memphis. In 6 turns he will chop the forest for 54 hammers towards an observatory or grocer. Likewise Aaron and Tarsusian 1 worker are each chopping a forest 3 tiles W of Heliopolis that will together contribute 108 hammers towards the University under construction there.

OR this will also speed the construction of the 2 national wonders were building at the moment. Moscow has just started National Epic due in 13 but can be changed.

Persepolis is working on the Globe Theatre and growing phenomenally. Make sure the citizens are on the best hammer and food tiles. Later we can build Grocer and Bank to rake in more cash from the Mahobodhi.

I suggest we build a courthouse and the FP at Pasargadae when the resistance ends. There’s already a forge and granary there to help. This will avoid need to build courthouse in other Persian cities.

At some stage we should switch to Caste System + Pacifism for Artist spam.

Sidon is short of shields so I started a workshop due in 2. Make sure to move a citizen there. Sidon is working on a harbor but that was started in error.

Untimately we will have our own silk at Arbela and can cancel the trade with Gandhi.

Watch out for the spuriously selected specialists whenever a city grows or an unhappy citizen is made happy.

Uncolonised islands

There are at least 3 of these we should consider taking before Gandhi who already has a galleon out there with a settler heading for deer/fur island I suspect. They would need to be heavily defended from HC though.

 

[Perugia]

Spoiler session log :

Here your Session Turn Log from 1394 AD to 1454 AD:

Turn 289, 1394 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult (5.00) vs Cyrus's Longbowman (9.28)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Combat Odds: 1.6%
Turn 289, 1394 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 14 (77/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 14 (63/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman (8.80) vs Cyrus's Longbowman (5.48)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Combat Odds: 94.4%
Turn 289, 1394 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 22 (41/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 22 (19/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman has defeated Cyrus's Longbowman!
Turn 289, 1394 AD: You have captured Arbela!!!
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Fifth Element is the first to discover Liberalism!
Turn 289, 1394 AD: You have discovered Liberalism!
Turn 289, 1394 AD: Alexandria celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!

Turn 290, 1400 AD: You have discovered Printing Press!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Fifth Element adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Fifth Element adopts Mercantilism!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Fifth Element adopts Free Religion!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Alexandria celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Cyrus's Catapult (5.00) vs Fifth Element's Maceman (5.01)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Combat Odds: 63.5%
Turn 290, 1400 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Cyrus's Catapult is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Cyrus's Catapult is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 17 (40/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 17 (23/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Cyrus's Catapult is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Cyrus's Catapult is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 17 (6/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 290, 1400 AD: Cyrus's Catapult has defeated Fifth Element's Maceman!

Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult (5.00) vs Cyrus's Longbowman (10.20)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Combat Odds: 0.5%
Turn 291, 1406 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 14 (58/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 14 (44/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 14 (30/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 14 (16/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 14 (2/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 14 (0/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult has defeated Cyrus's Longbowman!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult (5.00) vs Cyrus's Longbowman (7.83)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Combat Odds: 6.0%
Turn 291, 1406 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 15 (75/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman has defeated Fifth Element's Catapult!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman (8.00) vs Cyrus's Longbowman (4.50)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Combat Odds: 95.8%
Turn 291, 1406 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 24 (51/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 24 (27/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 24 (3/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman has defeated Cyrus's Longbowman!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman (8.00) vs Cyrus's Longbowman (4.00)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Combat Odds: 97.3%
Turn 291, 1406 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 26 (54/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 26 (28/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 26 (2/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman has defeated Cyrus's Longbowman!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Crossbowman (6.60) vs Cyrus's Pikeman (3.84)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Combat Odds: 98.1%
Turn 291, 1406 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Pikeman is hit for 24 (56/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Pikeman is hit for 24 (32/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Pikeman is hit for 24 (8/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Cyrus's Pikeman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 291, 1406 AD: Fifth Element's Crossbowman has defeated Cyrus's Pikeman!
Turn 291, 1406 AD: You have captured Tarsus!!!

Turn 292, 1412 AD: Harkuf has been born in Delhi!

Turn 293, 1418 AD: Buddhism has spread in Pi-Ramesses.
Turn 293, 1418 AD: The borders of Sidon have expanded!
Turn 293, 1418 AD: Gandhi adopts Free Market!
Turn 293, 1418 AD: Roosevelt's Golden Age has ended...

Turn 294, 1424 AD: The borders of Persepolis have expanded!

Turn 295, 1430 AD: Fifth Element adopts Vassalage!
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Fifth Element adopts Slavery!
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Fifth Element adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Buddhism has spread in Sidon.
Turn 295, 1430 AD: Memphis celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 295, 1430 AD: You have trained a Pikeman in Moscow. Work has now begun on a Knight.
Turn 295, 1430 AD: You have trained a Knight in Elephantine. Work has now begun on a Explorer.
Turn 295, 1430 AD: You have trained a Pikeman in Pi-Ramesses. Work has now begun on a Knight.

Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Caravel (3.30) vs Cyrus's Galley (2.20)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Combat Odds: 90.1%
Turn 296, 1436 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Caravel is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Cyrus's Galley is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Caravel is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Caravel is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Caravel is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Caravel is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Caravel is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Caravel is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Cyrus's Galley has defeated Fifth Element's Caravel!
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Bactra to 51%!
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Memphis celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 296, 1436 AD: You have trained a Knight in Moscow. Work has now begun on a Longbowman.
Turn 296, 1436 AD: The borders of Arbela have expanded!
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman (6.60) vs Fifth Element's Pikeman (5.71)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Combat Odds: 76.3%
Turn 296, 1436 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Pikeman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Pikeman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Pikeman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Pikeman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Fifth Element's Pikeman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 296, 1436 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman has defeated Fifth Element's Pikeman!

Turn 297, 1442 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Persepolis!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Arbela!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Galley 7 (Galley) (2.20) vs Cyrus's Galley (1.93)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Combat Odds: 69.9%
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Galley 7 (Galley) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Galley 7 (Galley) is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Galley is hit for 20 (68/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Galley is hit for 20 (48/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Galley is hit for 20 (28/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Galley is hit for 20 (8/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Galley is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Galley 7 (Galley) has defeated Cyrus's Galley!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Your Galley 7 has destroyed a Galley!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Pasargadae to 0%!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult (5.00) vs Cyrus's Longbowman (11.70)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Combat Odds: 0.2%
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (4 Units)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 30 (70/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 30 (40/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 30 (10/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman has defeated Fifth Element's Catapult!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Your Catapult has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult (5.00) vs Cyrus's Longbowman (10.17)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Combat Odds: 1.1%
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (4 Units)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Catapult is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman has defeated Fifth Element's Catapult!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Your Catapult has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman (8.00) vs Cyrus's Longbowman (6.66)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Combat Odds: 78.2%
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 20 (54/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 20 (34/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 20 (14/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman has defeated Cyrus's Longbowman!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Your Maceman has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman (8.00) vs Cyrus's Longbowman (5.85)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Combat Odds: 83.7%
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (City Defense: +45%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 21 (57/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 21 (36/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 21 (15/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman has defeated Cyrus's Longbowman!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Your Maceman has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman (8.00) vs Cyrus's Longbowman (4.91)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Combat Odds: 94.4%
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 23 (55/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 23 (32/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 23 (9/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Longbowman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman has defeated Cyrus's Longbowman!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Your Maceman has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman (8.00) vs Cyrus's Pikeman (2.92)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Pikeman is hit for 30 (48/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Pikeman is hit for 30 (18/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Pikeman is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman has defeated Cyrus's Pikeman!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Your Maceman has destroyed a Pikeman!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman (8.00) vs Cyrus's Catapult (2.81)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Combat: +10%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Catapult is hit for 30 (46/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Catapult is hit for 30 (16/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Catapult is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman has defeated Cyrus's Catapult!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Your Maceman has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: You have captured Pasargadae!!!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Bactra to 42%!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 112 $ for Pi-Ramesses.
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 54 $ for Thebes.
Turn 297, 1442 AD: You have constructed a Buddhist Temple in Pi-Ramesses. Work has now begun on a Knight.
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman (6.55) vs Fifth Element's Maceman (6.15)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Combat Odds: 71.9%
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman is hit for 18 (73/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman is hit for 18 (55/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman has defeated Fifth Element's Maceman!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: While defending, your Maceman was destroyed by a Persian Crossbowman!
Turn 297, 1442 AD: Cyrus converts to Judaism!

Turn 298, 1448 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Persepolis!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Pasargadae!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 54 $ for Thebes.
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Bactra to 33%!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: You have discovered Astronomy!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Roosevelt has declared war on Huayna Capac!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Roosevelt adopts Vassalage!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: You have trained a Longbowman in Moscow. Work has now begun on Heroic Epic.
Turn 298, 1448 AD: You have constructed a Lighthouse in Sidon. Work has now begun on a Granary.
Turn 298, 1448 AD: The borders of Tarsus have expanded!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Cyrus's Catapult (5.50) vs Fifth Element's Maceman (8.00)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Combat Odds: 10.8%
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: You have suffered collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Cyrus's Catapult is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Cyrus's Catapult is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Cyrus's Catapult is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Cyrus's Catapult is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: A Catapult has withdrawn from combat with your Maceman!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman (6.00) vs Fifth Element's Maceman (4.21)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Combat Odds: 85.6%
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 24 (55/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 24 (31/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (61/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (45/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 24 (7/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (29/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman is hit for 16 (13/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Fifth Element's Maceman is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman has defeated Fifth Element's Maceman!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: While defending, your Maceman was destroyed by a Persian Crossbowman!

Turn 299, 1454 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Persepolis!
Turn 299, 1454 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Pasargadae!
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Fifth Element's Knight (10.00) vs Cyrus's Crossbowman (1.01)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 299, 1454 AD: (Extra Combat: +30%)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Cyrus's Crossbowman is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Fifth Element's Knight has defeated Cyrus's Crossbowman!
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Your Knight has destroyed a Crossbowman!
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Deal Canceled: Gems, Sugar to Gandhi for Silk, Wheat
Turn 299, 1454 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Bactra to 24%!

 

[Doom Train]

Excellent turnset Perugia. I totally agree your plan.

What are we gonna do about libyan raze it or keep it?

Next goodenuf

goodenuf (up)
BrianS
Doom_train
gskur
Dolphan (skipped)
Merum
groin_apologist (skipped)
Perugia (resting)

 

[Perugia]

@Doom_Train

I read your spoiler. It's a great narrative and I really love it! I'll re-read later to see if there's any key decisions it would be worth including.

No criticism but it sort of peters out at the end.

Overall this spoiler should cover our discussions about founding a city on the Indian continent and how we actually met all the other civs and the other (less exciting) things that happened after Catherine.

It might be better to call this part 1 and post it then work on the subsequent story in a second spoiler in the same thread as some other teams did.

Good point about Libyan. This point was raised before (forgive the pun).

We will have to take care of Libyan eventually, because, as long as even one Persian city remains, we will have trouble assimilating the captured ones, esp. on the border with India. If Gandhi does not take it himself, we should go there (by land or sea) and rase is, or, maybe, take it and give it to Gandhi.

@gskur. Can you explain in some more detail why will this affect assimilation?
I like the idea of gifting it. I would give it to another civ instead of Gandhi if they'll take it.

 

[BrianS]

Got the save - will plan (and possibly play) tonight.

Edit: I just saw that Doom_Train has Goodenuf up. I thought he had requested a skip. If Goodenuf is up, I'd like to request a swap. I'm heading out on a 10 day trip on Wednesday and would like to play before I go, especially since I missed my last turn.

 

[Perugia]

Got the save - will plan (and possibly play) tonight.

Edit: I just saw that Doom_Train has Goodenuf up. I thought he had requested a skip. If Goodenuf is up, I'd like to request a swap. I'm heading out on a 10 day trip on Wednesday and would like to play before I go, especially since I missed my last turn.

Yep. Doom_Train just beat me to posting the new turn order, I was waiting to see if Goodenuf logged in otherwise I'd have offered the turn to you anyhow as Goodenuf had already requested the same swap. With you going away it makes sense to me to swap you two as requested.

So I agree that Goodenuf will play after BrianS

One minor thought in my turnset post but not the random thoughts is to road the sugar plantation at Heliopolis if we need it for trading. There are now workers in that area.

Look forward to seeing your plan (edit see next post).

Edit. @BrianS According to the forum you posted at 05:40 GMT-8. That's either very early morning or very late night!

 

[gskur]

@Perugia #535
If you look at the horizontal bar down on the left in a City view, which tells you about city's nationality, you will see, say, in Persepolis that it is 99% Persian righ now. Because of "we what to return to motherland" thingy, these 99% will take it sweet time becoming Egyptian. In this case we are OK, though. But if we have a strong Indian cultural pressure, this pressure can easily replace Persian part of nationality (Persia is weak now) and kick us out of the city. This is bound to happen on the border with India. If Persia is no more (literally!), the Persian content will be readily relplaced with our own and we will have a strong position to resist Indian influence there.

 

[Doom Train]

@perugia #535

It s my first story for spoiler topic. So i looked at other posts as an example. Nearly everybody stopped after conquering starting island and talked about other civs shortly just giving the dates they met them like myself...

Of course more will come in second spoiler. So you permission to post this as a first part of our spoiler?

 

[Perugia]

@gskur. Thanks. I knew about the bar thingy, just forgot that foreign citizens are more decadent than our own. I take it that if we eliminate Persia then the remaining Persian % of our population immediately change to loyal Egyptians.

Thinking again on the question of gifting or razing, it actually a no-brainer as gifting will give us a +ve diplomacy modifier with the receiving Civ but we would get a -ve diplomacy modifier with all Civs from razing and the AI will rebuild it anyway.