SGOTM 01 - Short Straw

[Gyathaar]

I am not a bad player, you can check out my deity quechua rush article on the strategy articles forum. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=169930
I can adjust to any tactic you guys like to apply, but since the goal is quickest conquest or domination victory, I would suggest using Egypt's special unit, the war chariots.

Have you played any Civ4 GOTM games before? Yes #4-5-6 but I never submitted

Btw.. since I have read some of your posts.. do note that the GOTM rules does not allow save/reloading tactics

 

[VirusMonster]

I liked Grog's tech plan. We should head for bronzeworking only if there is no horse nearby. Settling on [0,-2] will give us 1 more hammer for the center city square.

We need some warriors first for hut scouting and worker capturing. I would not recommend getting worker first, especially because of the Inca threat, but again, if most of you guys want a worker first build, go for it. With 3 warriors you will most likely capture a worker anyhow.

 

[VirusMonster]

Btw.. since I have read some of your posts.. do note that the GOTM rules does not allow save/reloading tactics

I know , don't worry

 

[Danthor]

I can adjust to any tactic you guys like to apply, but since the goal is quickest conquest or domination victory, I would suggest using Egypt's special unit, the war chariots.

The victory must be domination or diplomatic. No conquest.

 

[VirusMonster]

The victory must be domination or diplomatic. No conquest.

hmm, would you guys then still like to go for a warmongering build? We can always leave out the last civilization and go for domination.

Are most people ok with me joining your team? We will be more than 6 players, including me.

 

[RobertTheBruce]

I'm in favor of a warmongering start to eliminate our nearest neighbour. I usually have trouble knocking out civs fast enough on Monarch to get a conquest and usually end up slowly marching to domination. Its a case of builderitis complicated by a hatred of razing cities.

I guess the big question is: Are all the civs connected by land? I usually play continents and have trouble digesting local civs and racing to Astronomy simultaneously.

I assume our start will be plains hill city working one of the floodplain squares (3 surplus food/33 to grow) = size 2 in 11 turns (2 hammers/22 for warrior). I don't think there will be a great square hidden behind the mountains.


Then the choice is work the unimproved cow (1f2h) to build another warrrior quickly (6 turns) for a worker steal attempt, work another floodplain to grow quickly and set up whipping, or build a worker?

I think a quick warrior followed by a worker if there are no nearby civs. If we find a nearby civ to donate the first worker do you usually switch to barracks, settler for a nearby military resource or create worker 2 for chopping?

Edit: I guess this analysis assumes my typical path of AH, Mining, BW, Pottery for starting techs. If we find horses nearby for a second city to we promote Pottery? any other worker techs before BW? Do we chop for settlers or save trees for any wonders later?

 

[Grogs]

Welcome aboard VirusMonster! Here's the updated roster then:

Grogs
Mushroomshirt
Lmtoops
Danthor
RobertTheBruce
llib_rm
VirusMonster
Ungy


I doubt a worker steal is a viable option since it usually relies on surprise. With the Inca, since we're already at war they'll see us coming and just move the worker away and send out an archer. We could do it to another civ, but I don't think that's wise until we know where the Inca are.

Personally, I think it's too early to fixate on a long term strategy right now because there's just too little we know about the world. I have pulled a fast Diplo win before (GOTM 02) and I have to say the easiest way to get there is usually through war. That, and the fact we're locked into AW with the Inca, means there's war up ahead somewhere, so if we have any peaceful builders, strap in and get ready to turn those ploughshares into swords.

It seems like we're all in agreement on city location and techs. It's just the first build (worker or warrior) we seem pretty evenly split on. I'll play the first 20 tonight and let you know what I've decided then I guess.

And if anybody hasn't done so, you should pull down the opening save and make sure you can open it. The GOTM games are protected, so you may have problems if you have any installed. The SGOTM Maintenance thread is the best place to go if you have issues.

 

[llib_rm]

hmm, would you guys then still like to go for a warmongering build? We can always leave out the last civilization and go for domination.

I think war mongering gives us the greatest chance of victory. My concern is the Civ we are permanently at peace with. See earlier posts.

Are most people ok with me joining your team? We will be more than 6 players, including me.

I am OK with you joining our team, and I like your suggested opening moves. Settle on hill [0, -2], build warriors, go for AH then BW.

For balance, I suggest you get placed into the middle of the rotation.

 

[Grogs]

I think war mongering gives us the greatest chance of victory. My concern is the Civ we are permanently at peace with. See earlier posts.

I'd say it's nothing to lose sleep over. They'd have to have 35% land area to stop us from getting domination. If by some chance they do, they'd also have to have 40% of the population to stop us from winning Diplo. Frankly, I've never seen an AI civ get that large. If by some chance they do, it's pretty easy to outgrow them. In the CO1 SG, we were stuck on an island with 16% of the land area and managed to get 33% of the world pop (on Emperor) mainly because the AI isn't very good at optimizing its population. That all assumes we can't get a PA with them.

For balance, I suggest you get placed into the middle of the rotation.

If early wars are your (VM's) thing and you see a good spot to jump in on the first rotation, I'd say go for it, as long as nobody objects. I'd guess maybe the 3rd or 4th slot for a war chariot rush, but it's fairly hard to predict until we know more about the world.

 

[AlanH]

As far as I can see Ungy still hasn't signed in to your thread. Do you know for sure that s/he is playing? If so I'll add Ungy to your team list.

 

[Lmtoops]

It's just the first build (worker or warrior) we seem pretty evenly split on. I'll play the first 20 tonight and let you know what I've decided then I guess.

This does bring up a good point. The way I play SG, the player that is up is the King. We can discuss within the forum, and hopefully the King will listen to his subjects. In the end, the King is King. All hail King Grog

 

[Lmtoops]

As far as I can see Ungy still hasn't signed in to your thread. Do you know for sure that s/he is playing? If so I'll add Ungy to your team list.

I don't know. He PM me say he wants to play. He was not sure what to do, so I sent him a specific link to this thread. If he can't follow that trail of bread crumbs ...well what can I say.

Give him a bit more time, and then if there is no response....there's always the next SGOTM.

 

[Grogs]

This does bring up a good point. The way I play SG, the player that is up is the King. We can discuss within the forum, and hopefully the King will listen to his subjects. In the end, the King is King. All hail King Grog

LOL. In all seriousness though, those are my sentiments about SG's as well. I think SG's are a democracy during the discussion stage since everyone has a voice, but when it comes to the turnset, the person at the keyboard is absolute monarch. Of course, it's better if we *can* reach a consensus. I played one SG where we all seemed to go a different way on our turnset, then the next player would change things back. That seems to be the the exception though. Most seem to run much more smoothly.


Anyway, on to business... our first 20 turns are complete and posted up on the server. You can follow the link in AlanH's post that started the thread and download it to take a look. I had a little scuffle with a lion that slowed down exploration, but otherwise, thing went OK. We met one other civ, the Russians, and it appears that the Aztecs aren't in the immediate vicinity. Also, we've got horses and they're in a good spot for a 2nd city.

Here's the log:

Turn 0, 4000 BC: Move settler SW onto the plains hill. Move warrior NE. We've got fish off the coast. Set research to AH. Only 223 turns to go!

Turn 1, 3970 BC: Settle Thebes in place. Wow, nice city site, at least for a Monarch game. In addition to the cattle, we've also got rice and stone in the fat cross. To the south is coast (salt water.) I can also tell what we gave up by moving south - another cow.

Warrior moves NW. I decided to go worker first. AH is due in 18 and so is the worker. Also, I renamed our warrior Warrior1. It's an old habit from GOTM's. I've had my initial warrior survive all the way to the end of the game.

Turn 2, 3940 BC: Warrior1 NE.

Turn 3, 3910 BC: Warrior1 NW.

Turn 4, 3880 BC: Warrior1 NW. OK, we've got tundra up north so we must be near the north side of the map. There's also another cow up there.

Turn 5, 3850 BC: Thebes expands. Holy cow! There's another cow W of Thebes. Warrior1 NW. Nothing but junk up there (I was hoping for some deer or silver.)

Turn 6, 3820 BC: Warrior1 SW.

Turn 7, 3790 BC: Warrior1 SW.

Turn 8, 3760 BC: Warrior1 S.

Turn 9, 3730 BC: Warrior1 SW.

Turn 10, 3700 BC: Warrior1 SW. HC's score jumps up from 46 to 60.

Turn 11, 3670 BC: Warrior1 SW. And there's a lion - grrrr.

Turn 12, 3640 BC: Warrior1 wins, but wow was it close (0.2/2.) Warrior1 W.

Turn 13, 3610 BC: Warrior1 SW. I'm going to fortify him on this hill so he can heal up.

Turn 14, 3580 BC: Warrior1 fortifies to heal (9 turns.)

Turn 15, 3550 BC: Zzzzz

Turn 16, 3520 BC: I meet our first neighbor, Catherine the Great of Russia and offer peace. She's never met Huayna and since SW seems to be the only direction we can go, he's probably not very close.

Turn 17, 3490 BC: Zzzzz

Turn 18, 3460 BC: Zzzzz

Turn 19, 3430 BC: AH is in -> research to mining in 10 turns. Thebes worker->warrior. Move our worker onto the cattle. Assign the citizen in Thebes to the cattle -> warrior due in 8.

Turn 20, 3400 BC: worker begins a pasture -> due in 6 turns. Also, I forgot to check when AH came in. We have horses north of Thebes. They're close and also near 2 cows, so potentially a great city site.

Here's the world as we know it in 3400 BC:

And here's the roster:

Grogs - Just Played
Mushroomshirt - Up
Lmtoops - On Deck
Danthor
RobertTheBruce
llib_rm
VirusMonster

 

[Danthor]

[-1,2] looks like a great site for city 2 with 1 fish, 2 cows and 1 horse, a couple forests and water near.

We have stone! NICE, we can easily build Stonhenge with Masonry+Mysticism.

 

[mushroomshirt]

OK! Looks like I'm up next! I've downloaded the save file and I can open it. I'd like to wait 24 hours or so to play so everyone has a chance to get their 2cents in. I'll post again tomorrow before I actually start my turns.

The way I see it since we built a worker first, we'll want at least two warriors, one for defense and 1 to scout a bit. I think warrior1 should beeline straight for Moscow to see if we can snag a worker & set Russia back some turns. Does that sound like a good initial build plan to everyone?

On improvements, my thought is have the worker finish the pasture then farm the rice and start working that when we grow to size 2. Not sure if we'll hit size 3 on my watch, but I'd like to hear some thoughts on the next tile to work. Is that a plains hill 1SW of Thebes? If so I think mining that would be good. Any other ideas?

(Is it too crazy to think of mining the stone hill? Not sure masonry will even be on our tech path for a while - mining there would give us an extra hammer)

After the warriors I'm thinking that I will start a barracks build. That will probably do it for me. I usually would wait to build my settler until after I get BW or reach at least size 3 with the city.

On the tech side, once we finish Mining the obvious tech is BW, so that's what I'll switch to.

Any other thoughts?

PS any hints on posting screenshots? I have never done that before.

[Edited to report that I can open the save and add my strange question about stone]

 

[mushroomshirt]

[-1,2] looks like a great site for city 2 with 1 fish, 2 cows and 1 horse, a couple forests and water near.

We have stone! NICE, we can easily build Stonhenge with Masonry+Mysticism.

I actually prefer [2,2] since it has 2 cows, 1 horse, 4plains hills and 5 floodplains. That city will be a production MONSTER. I would suggest that for our unit producing city.

Not sure why we would want Stonehenge since we are a cultural civ. Myself I prefer to avoid wonders (unless I am non-cultural then Stonehenge is my thing) and concentrate on military to crush our neighbors.

I could probably get behind building the pyramids for a switch to police state...

Of course my turn will be over well before I have to make any of these decisions, so that will be up to Lmtoops or someone else.

 

[AlanH]

I don't know. He PM me say he wants to play. He was not sure what to do, so I sent him a specific link to this thread. If he can't follow that trail of bread crumbs ...well what can I say.

Give him a bit more time, and then if there is no response....there's always the next SGOTM.

Sure. I think you have enough players to keep the game going

 

[ungy]

Hi guys--I'm in-- sorry for the slow response. Haven't had a chance to think about game yet but will get back with some thoughts in the next day. thanks --ungy

 

[Grogs]

(Is it too crazy to think of mining the stone hill? Not sure masonry will even be on our tech path for a while - mining there would give us an extra hammer)

Not at all! In CO-1 we mined some pigs near our capital because we put off AH for a long time, going to BW and IW first. I think it was a 3f/3h/1c tile with the mine, which was pretty useful in the early going. IIRC, we left it as a mine for quite a while after AH because there was plenty of food in the capital and we already had pigs. I think mining the stone would give us 5h on the stone tile, which is exactly the same as a quarry would. Of course, we won't have stone as a resource, but if we're not pursuring early wonders, we don't really need it right now.

After the warriors I'm thinking that I will start a barracks build. That will probably do it for me. I usually would wait to build my settler until after I get BW or reach at least size 3 with the city.

On the tech side, once we finish Mining the obvious tech is BW, so that's what I'll switch to.

Personally, I wouldn't build a barracks in Thebes, at least right now. As you noted, we've got a production powerhouse site just north of us with the horses, and with the Rice/Cow/Stone/FP tiles, Thebes is an ideal spot for building Settlers/Workers. I think 2 cities specialized for particular tasks are better than 2 generalist cities. If I could have any one building in Thebes right now, it would be a granary for faster growth, especially after rushing.

I'd say we'll also need a 2nd worker pretty quickly also, either right before the settler, or right after.

I wouldn't say BW is obvious but I tend to agree it's probably the best choice to go for next. Even if we aren't going to build a lot of axes, being able to cut trees and pop rush are quite useful at this stage of the game. I think even if we decide to build the pyramids, we'll want to get another city or two down before we start, so we've probably got a bit of time before we need masonry.

Not sure why we would want Stonehenge since we are a cultural civ. Myself I prefer to avoid wonders (unless I am non-cultural then Stonehenge is my thing) and concentrate on military to crush our neighbors.

In our case, we wouldn't need the culture, so it would be for the great prophet you get after 75 turns. The great prophet will research the next available religion, so it's usually possible to found one of the fairly expensive later religions (Christianity or Confucianism) with him. If you're alone on an island (I thought we might be during our first few turns) and missed the early religions it's a good way to grab one. I've played a few games stuck alone on an island with no religion until Astronomy, and it's pretty painful.

PS any hints on posting screenshots? I have never done that before.

Sure. Scroll all the way down to the bottom of any web page of the CFC forums and you'll find a link that says 'Upload File.' Hit the link and you'll get a window that lets you browse for and upload your pic (it's usually a good idea to rename them from something other than the default name CIV gives them.) That window will also give you the path where the files are being uploaded, for example, right now it's: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/ Just paste that into your thread, add the name of the image you've uploaded at the end, and add IMG tags (in brackets) at either end.

Alternately, you can use the little paper clip icon at the top of the reply and attach the image. It will just show up as a link that has to be clicked to view in that case.

 

[AlanH]

Hi guys--I'm in-- sorry for the slow response. Haven't had a chance to think about game yet but will get back with some thoughts in the next day. thanks --ungy

HI


I've added you to the team list, so you'll be able to submit save files for this team when the time comes.