SGOTM 01 - V Q

ChrTh · May 25, 2006

How come namliaM hasn't played yet?!? Are we slowing down?!?

We need to be careful around HC's land -- we don't want to lose our caravel right away. Perhaps we should approach from the East? Also, after Astronomy, I think we should head in the general direction of Chemistry for (wait for it) Frigates and Grenadiers. And yes, I do hear an echo in here.

ChrTh · May 25, 2006

One more thing (tm):

We need to focus on HC next regardless. He's the one we're at war with, and we don't want to be fighting two wars at once. More importantly, no one seems to like him, so we can still work towards a diplomatic victory if we decide that would be a quicker goal. With the possibilities of diplomatic victory in mind, we should see if we can get Cyrus to convert to Hinduism.

dot · May 25, 2006

Hello all

So you're thinking about attacking HC or Cyrus. But HC is more likely to you. Fine. Here come my thoughts on and questions to this strategy. (First things first: I have to admit, that I'm not really familiar with attacking strategies. :blush:

My games are rather peaceful. I'll - mostly - only fight for defence.)

Assuming, you've been moving over to HC and - in which way ever - been able to conquer some of his cities. What are you going to do with them? Are you going to let them burn, baby, burn? Or do you want to keep them?

Thoughts on letting them burn:
- You're creating space by doing so. And it is at least possible that some other AI-civ will find that very comforting and inviting ... ... to settle there. So I think keeping them will by all means be the better choice.
- A possible second reason for not letting them burn ... Isn't this giving some diplo- ??
Thoughts on keeping the cities:
- If you want to keep these cities you'll need to bring defensive forces to your crusade to be able to hold the cities you've just conquered, right? So you want to have a really big and well-balanced army?! What about maintenance?
- Assuming you'll find some five to eight cities over there. And if you - for not allowing any other civ to settle there - decide to keep them, you're maintenance costs will most probably mushroom like hell. The only way to counteract this - the only way I see - is to get Versailles over there. The GE will be of some help with that . But for building Versailles you'll need to have divine, right?
- Since HC is your AW-Civ, do you want to get him finished once you start that crusade? Or are you planning on taking a few cities and then putting the battle to a halt?

So that's it. Again quite some ... If I'm kind of spamming your forum ... You'd let me know, would you?

@GreyFox: Sorry for the double-negation. I'm not sure whether this is common in the english language. At least in the south of germany it isn't uncommon.

ChrTh · May 25, 2006

You only get negative diplo with the Civ whose cities you burn. Since we're AW with HC, it doesn't matter if we raze them (Cyrus or FDR would be a different story).

GreyFox · May 25, 2006

We have to bring the war to HC sooner or later, since we can only win by diplo or domination. Diplo-wise, Gandhi is our most likely opponent, so it makes no sense letting HC survive. SO yes, dot, you are right abt the big army and maintaneance and all that. But its is something we have to cope with. Peace is not an option.

Yes, it make no sense razing HC's city, since we can only win by domination or diplo, it only make sense to keep those cities captured. With regard to maintaneance cost, one option other than versalles is state property.

@dot: it is common to have double negation, but somehow re-reading your sentence makes me think hard ... :lol:

... no offense, just trying to bring some fun into the thread

-

bobrath · May 25, 2006

ChrTh said:
You only get negative diplo with the Civ whose cities you burn. Since we're AW with HC, it doesn't matter if we raze them (Cyrus or FDR would be a different story).

Unless its a Holy City. In which case you can get negatives with followers of that faith.

Maquis · May 25, 2006

I concur, there is no sense in razing HC's cities. We're going for land, and there is no reason to have to build settlers and start cities from scratch.

I also want to stress that we go to Police state this time around. It was a total :smoke:

for us not to use it in the war vs. Cathy. We built the 'mids for a reason... let's use them.

One last thought on civics, would it make sense also to revolt to Caste system? I've found it's a powerful tool to hire an artist once a city comes out of revolt, to get that initial border pop ASAP. I do realize that we have our culture from our trait... but even with that it would still take 5 turns to get the 10 culture, whereas hiriing one artist gets it done in 2 turns. If you hire two artists, you pop in one turn!

I do not want to see a repeat of our last war, where the AI is snatching up our land. This time it may be America trying to force cities into our conquests...

GreyFox · May 25, 2006

It make sense. In fact, if people feel like MM'ing, an optimal use of the spiritual trait is to keep switching civics every 5 turns or so.

For instance, you first switch to police state + Theorarcy + caste system to build units and hire artists. 5 turns later, you switch to representations + slavery + OR, all units not finished are delayed, switching all city prod to buildings. Then when you can switch civics again, you turn back the queued units and apply the whip. than change civics back to police state + thecarcy so that the units will all gain the +2 xp. Rinse and repeat.

Too much MM for my taste ... I think its worst than biary research :lol:

-

ChrTh · May 25, 2006

bobrath said:
Unless its a Holy City. In which case you can get negatives with followers of that faith.

Good point. We should raze their cities too.

Communism is a goal anyway (for PAs) so State Property is in our future.

eektor · May 25, 2006

I would like to point out that when we go to war with the Incans, we cannot declare peace. If war weariness is getting really bad, we have to deal with it. So, when we go to war with the Incans its a fight to the finish with no breaks. Let's be prepared before we start it.

Maquis · May 25, 2006

Very good point eektor! Just another reason we should be in Police State, because once the WW starts, there is only one way to eliminate it.

I was trying look up how WW adds up, but couldn't find it... is there a component that is due to losing units? That and time? It's something we should have a good plan for, so we don't get crippled by WW...

dot · May 25, 2006

eektor said:
Let's be prepared before we start it.

bobrath said:
Unless its a Holy City. In which case you can get negatives with followers of that faith.

That's interesting. I didn't know that. So you will have to check whether confucianism has been widely spread or not!?

GreyFox said:
SO yes, dot, you are right abt the big army and maintaneance and all that. But its is something we have to cope with. Peace is not an option.

@dot: it is common to have double negation, but somehow re-reading your sentence makes me think hard ... ... no offense, just trying to bring some fun into the thread

I didn't want to advocate that peace'd be an option. :rolleyes:

I just wanted to spark "maintenance during war time" as a topic ... since I've missed it in your discussions.

And to the last ...: No offence taken

@Maquis: I never used Police State as a civic ... but it seems to be a good idea. I'm keen to see, how it's working out, then.

namliaM · May 25, 2006

ChrTh said:
One more thing (tm):

We need to focus on HC next regardless. He's the one we're at war with, and we don't want to be fighting two wars at once. More importantly, no one seems to like him, so we can still work towards a diplomatic victory if we decide that would be a quicker goal. With the possibilities of diplomatic victory in mind, we should see if we can get Cyrus to convert to Hinduism.

IIRC, HC also founded atleast 2 religions so taking those holy cities will make some nice $$$ for our economy

On war with HC, we want to get Baldy into it for the + on fighting a common foo... AI are (still) bad at intercontinental war, so we dont have much to fear from it....

ChrTh said:
Since we're AW with HC, it doesn't matter if we raze them (Cyrus or FDR would be a different story).

If we dow anyone I dont expect any vote from them in the diplo department anyway... So if we are going to war, we are going to war :satan:

I did play allready this morning (10 hours ago), when no posts were even up yet... But didnt have time to put the report up... Doing that in 5 minutes or so....

ChrTh · May 25, 2006

we have almost twice as many turns played as any other team :lol:

@bobrath: get ready, we're going to be wanting you to play tonight!

I also figure that in the US we'll be able to play a lot this weekend...

Maquis · May 25, 2006

@bobrath: get ready, we're going to be wanting you to play tonight! I also figure that in the US we'll be able to play a lot this weekend...

Depending on when bobrath plays, I'll get my turns in either really late tonight or early tomorrow morning. I'll be driving tomrorrow afternoon (about 6 hrs worth)

I'll have my laptop with, so I won't be out of pocket, although I'll be checking more in later evenings (thankfully I "gave" my parents a wireless router last year)

namliaM · May 25, 2006

So my log, well... Nothing happened period... Up next...

OK I will make it a bit more detailed then...

Inherited turn, cicle thru everywhere and make some changes...
Start a buddist monastary in Moscow, 1) More culture 2) More science this in favour of the (IIRC) Market beeing build...
Start a lib in Yakuts, a court is nice, but I want culture there for claiming the clams from Cyrus (Currently 75% property of Cyrus) and puting the squize on Hyderbad.
Whip the courthouse in Memphis for 2 pop, killing 1 sick person and grow 1 again in 4. Start an aquaduct....
Up the gem deal with Baldy to 10GPT

Turn 2 1346 Novgorod finishes the lib and starts a Buddist Monastary

1352 we meet our final "votee" Saladin and this is what he looks like and what he thinks of the (to him) known world.

Not the percentage on science, Yes I continued Binary research (mostly)

After meeting Saladin I check out the trades and notice our friend has something intresting. I try to ask if he can spare it for a friend, but even the cheapest tech is No go.... note maybe we should gift something to Gandhi (some gold or so) just to try and get even better on his good side... What type of things can one get + for?

And a few years later I spot the first Galleon... as Gandhi addopts Mercantalism, What are baldies favourite civics? You get + for that too...

In the mean time Hindu has been founded in Novgorod, now up to 8cpt and Hindu failed to take in Moscow. A second attempt succeeds tho...

And I whip the lib in Yakuts for 2 pop, the Clams are now at 73%

I build an explorer and used our (still) only caravel to drop him off at the Indian/Persian island....

Oddly enough more caravels from HC show up, but our nets stay in tact. Can caravels not Pillage them?? :confused:

1394 I spot new unclaimed land not to far to our southeast, but 1400 it is claimed by Baldy... as it turns out this island may have space for a total of 2 or 3 cities.... Mostly water tho...

Note tho the Beaver and Deer...

would have been nice to have... but no great lose either...

1412 and we finaly have Astronomy on this year we get the message the HC starts a GA

but no message about the Taj Mahal.

I set research toward Nationhood (the taj Tech) for 1) Offcourse the Taj and 2) it leads to Cavalry... If we are going for HC, those would be nice

I did 20 questions with Gandhi,

Appearently Cyrus and FDR are hands off for now, HC and Saladin seem to be "Pray"

So I suggest beeing carefull when trading with Saladin as we may get the - for trading with the enemy at some point

ChrTh · May 25, 2006

Gandhi is such a settling maniac ... we definitely need to keep him on our good side.

His favorite Civic is Universal Sufferage...however I don't think you get the Civic bonus unless he's also in the same Civic so we need to wait for Democracy before taking advantage of that.

We are going to trade Astronomy around, right? We need techs!

namliaM · May 25, 2006

Some trade things

FDR allready got Astronomy in the past couple of turns ...

Saladin no have no Astronomy but isnt willing to trade anything, grumpy peace of ....

Cyrus on the other hand is starting to drop of the pace, and is offering a nice trade... IF we do convert him and butter him up a little the we may just be able to get his vote on diplo...

I set research to 0% for we can now build Observatorys (is that right? Anyway those things that up science 25%) It might be nice to run 0% science for a turn of 5,6,7 wait for (atleast) the build in Thebes is done. Just to pick up some extra beakers....

We have 2 turns left on the FP in Moscow, which should help a little with the treasury....

The culture battles we have going on right now...

I build Byblos, for the Silver... I tossed a coin on what spot West coast, East coast or On the silver... I put it on the east coast, tho looking back it may have been better to put it on the silver...

We are currently atleast 6 techs of the pace, where we know that Devine right has also been taken back in 815ad allready so thats atleast 7 techs...

All our cities are now Hindu except for Byblos...

Oh and about war... We havent yet build Heroic Epic... or what ever its name... The +100% unit building thing... We need that too ... soon...

It may be more to our advantage to not attack HC for a while but to draw Baldy into the conflict and maintain the Status Quo... for a while to the big ++++

Spoiler SGOTM Session log :

bobrath · May 25, 2006

you guys are ruining our post per turn count.

ChrTh · May 25, 2006

bobrath said:
you guys are ruining our post per turn count.

Less talky more walky! We got a race to win! :hammer:

SGOTM 01 - V Q

Happy Yule!

Happy Yule!

crossing the i's

Happy Yule!

Make it so ...

Emperor

King

Make it so ...

Happy Yule!

Prince

King

crossing the i's

Deity

Happy Yule!

King

Deity

Happy Yule!

Deity

Emperor

Happy Yule!

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