SGOTM 01 - V Q

[Maquis]

I believe our biggest hurdle in getting a PA with Gandhi will be relations. Somehow we need to get him to be really friendly with us... I would still love to get him involved in a war against a common enemy. HC would be the easiest. At some point it would be good to get up a tech on him so we can at least use it as leverage to get baldy to declare on HC (or anyone...)

 

[ChrTh]

I believe our biggest hurdle in getting a PA with Gandhi will be relations. Somehow we need to get him to be really friendly with us... I would still love to get him involved in a war against a common enemy. HC would be the easiest. At some point it would be good to get up a tech on him so we can at least use it as leverage to get baldy to declare on HC (or anyone...)

Maquis, take a look at n0x-02, we were able to get a PA with Gandhi via a DP, even if relations weren't perfect. The trick is to get him to like you enough to do a DP, and since we're the same religion, as long as we stay the same religion we should be able to do so.

EDIT: If we want to get a DP with Gandhi, we need to have him declare on HC *before* we sign the DP, otherwise we lose it when he declares. Of course, we should be able to take care of HC before we can even sign a DP

 

[namliaM]

Maquis, take a look at n0x-02, we were able to get a PA with Gandhi via a DP, even if relations weren't perfect. The trick is to get him to like you enough to do a DP, and since we're the same religion, as long as we stay the same religion we should be able to do so.

EDIT: If we want to get a DP with Gandhi, we need to have him declare on HC *before* we sign the DP, otherwise we lose it when he declares. Of course, we should be able to take care of HC before we can even sign a DP

Beeing able to get a DP is just 20 turns or so away... 2 turns on Nationhood, 3 on Music and 15 or so on Military Tradition.

We then need Gunpowder, I think (still dont know the Techtree like I did with C3C ), to build us some cavalry. Dont know if we need any prereqs for Gunpowder either....

But the DP is just those 20 turns away... Might Baldy offer us a DP? If/when he has MT?

First, 3 turn goal, I guess is the Taj? and getting a GA going? In GA offcourse the DP is much closer even...

 

[ChrTh]

Went back to n0x-02 ... we needed to be at about +8 or +10 with Gandhi before he would sign the DP. After that, it took about 45 turns before he was willing to do a PA. However, this being Epic, I would expect that 60-75 would be more realistic.

And remember, declaring war cancels the DP.

EDIT:

But the DP is just those 20 turns away... Might Baldy offer us a DP? If/when he has MT?

Good point. We should keep an eye on Gandhi, all we need is him to have MT in order to the DP.

 

[eektor]

If Gandhi has 22% land area, domination wouldn't be too hard to get if we had a PA with him.

HC wouldn't be enough to get to the domination limit. I think it might be possible that if we take down Cyrus we could be at the domination limit.

This of course assumes we get the PA.

 

[bobrath]

btw, currently each turn is a 6 year cycle, so we'll still end up skipping around on the finishing date.

I'm very good with going to 10 turns each now. We're getting to the part of the game that requires a bit more thought (and time to write up).


There is no reason to divert from taking HC out asap. He's closest to us in terms of power. In addition, we have the closer route for colonizing behind the invasion force. I'm all for Gahndi being our bestest buddy... but lets not give him the runaway chance.

SO yes, we do need a tech that ghandi doesn't have. Just to bribe him into a war with HC. The common struggle bonus will be nice, but it will also be helpful to have ghandi keeping our seas a bit more clear.

 

[namliaM]

Went back to n0x-02 ... we needed to be at about +8 or +10 with Gandhi before he would sign the DP. After that, it took about 45 turns before he was willing to do a PA. However, this being Epic, I would expect that 60-75 would be more realistic.

And remember, declaring war cancels the DP.

EDIT:


Good point. We should keep an eye on Gandhi, all we need is him to have MT in order to the DP.

I had a read of that game... I dont think you had a common enemy tho...

About HC, how do we go about that? Just go West to east? Or start East (with a relatively small force just to draw his attention) and come in from the west as well?

Gandhi is at 22% we are at something like 18 or so (and losing due to the 2 foreign bodies )
Cyrus is pretty small something like 10?
thats 40% that leaves 60% either unsettled or grabbed by FDR/HC/Saladin. Counting heads that means after HC we would be at about 30-ish adding in 22% for Baldy, makes 50-ish.

So we will need either FDR or Saladin... atleast, maybe both. Maybe while we are going at either of them, we can have Gandhi taking out cyrus...

Maybe he should be our first goal? Close at hand... Has one city on our lands which we can turn a profit on quickly...
And Persipolis at size 15 and a holy city on the outer edge is a nice target....

Or we take HC and let Gandhi take all of cyrus...
IIRC HC has (atleast) 2 holy cities himself, IIRC Judaism and Confus... something I allways misspel that....

Edit: Someone get me a world map???

And remember, declaring war cancels the DP.

Is that so? Totaly cancelled or just for that war?
If it totaly cancells than maybe going to war with Saladin earlier might be benificial....

 

[ChrTh]

Everyone hates Khan in n0x-02, so we just avoided him. We didn't need to go to war with Gandhi's help to get the PA, so we shouldn't be thinking we have to do it here as well.

 

[bobrath]

Totally cancels a DP if either of you enters a war. Basically a DP is a one time "I promise to declare war on someone if they declare on you". If you declare a war, it voids the DP.

I think trying to go east first on HC is *really* expensive. That's a long voyage. Our caravel just picked up the explorer from Baldy's lands. Sail the pair NW from their location and see if there's an unopulated contient or something there. BTW - paper might be nice to pick up some world maps now...

 

[dot]

Gentlemen

Haven't seen it mentioned here ... but being currently at war with anyone is not allowing you to sign a DP. So you've got to finish HC off, before you'll only be able to sign a DP with Gandhi. And then, that's correct ChrTh, if any party is declaring war on someone else ... the DP is cancelled - not only kind of interrupted - again.

 

[bobrath]

So even more reason to finish off HC. With him around we can't get lined up with Gahndi. Forward the cannons!!!

 

[GreyFox]

@bob: yes, a 6 year cycle, but if Maquis oplayed 1 more turn, at least we end each turnset with a xxx0 year, instea dof a xxx4 year.

I think we don't have to worry too much abt DP/PA with Gandhi or getting him to war. Those are nice to have, but let work based on the assumption taht Gandhi is not there.

We need to scout out HC's land first before deciding where to attack. AI usually don't take the bait of shifting defenders around. SO we should chose the breachhead to our advantage (i,e closest to our land for easier transport).

So, we are still sticking o the pan of getting Frigates for the D-Day of our Incan campaign? I estimate we need to have ~15 attackers, 9 catapults, and 6 defenders ready before the actual invasion. The transport have already been built by bobrath. Next up should build towards that troop while waiting for Frigates to be enabled.

 

[ChrTh]

There has to be a city (possibly the capital) right on the other side of the mountains. I'm guessing that's going to be our first target.

Cats are good, Cannons are better. Steel after Chemistry?

I agree with GreyFox: let's take care of HC first, then worry about DPs/PAs/Gandhi. Tech research should move accordingly.

EDIT: Also, if dot is right (never tested so I don't know for sure, but it sounds right), we can't get into a DP until after the war with HC is over.

Also, about DPs: if one of us attacked, the DP will cancel as well (after the partner auto-declares) ... of course, at that point we'll get the mutual struggle bonus.

 

[namliaM]

Gentlemen

Haven't seen it mentioned here ... but being currently at war with anyone is not allowing you to sign a DP. So you've got to finish HC off, before you'll only be able to sign a DP with Gandhi. And then, that's correct ChrTh, if any party is declaring war on someone else ... the DP is cancelled - not only kind of interrupted - again.

Hmz, I think if we are both at war with HC, we can do a DP.... Or in the worst case It simply isnt acted upon (i.e. an auto dow from Gandhi)

What is the current power status of Gandhi, I read in the original PA thread that if Gandhi or us is to strong (power) it would be a no go anyway... But getting domination without the PA is going to be verry hard I think...

The mutual strugle bonus can get big over time... If we are looking for NOW solutions, lets skip on MT for now (thus the MP) and pick up Gunpowder (still not sure if that is the one) first. We need that anyway for Cavalry and gives a major upgrade to Mace's

Steel for the better boats offcours is nice to have, in particular if we are dropping off units on the west side of HC.... He will hardly get a chance to intercept the shipments

Again I am not sure where Cannons come in... But at the moment:
1) Gunpowder
2) Gunpowder
3) MT

Is my top 3 in techs...

 

[bobrath]

Hmz, I think if we are both at war with HC, we can do a DP....

uhhh... That would make no sense. A DP is signed "in case of war". If you're already in a war, why would you sign one?

 

[dot]

EDIT: Also, if dot is right (never tested so I don't know for sure, but it sounds right), we can't get into a DP until after the war with HC is over.

Whenever I've been currently at war - not depending on whether I declared war or it has been declared on me - I haven't been able to sign DPs. As bobrath did point out ... It wouldn't make sense either. So I don't have that info from any official site but I've never experienced something else.

Again I am not sure where Cannons come in...

Cannons come in with steel. Also incoming with steel are ... oh mist ... Panzerschiffe ? The ships that are 'working' on coal?! But You need to have Steam Power for that. Gunpowder - btw - does only allow musketeers. Grenadiers do come in with chemistry. So do Frigates.

 

[GreyFox]

Just attack whenever a player feels its ready. I would love to attack with modern armors, mech Inf, stealth bombers and destroyers, but ... ??? AFAICT HC's tech pace is abt the same as us. So, no point keep delaying for the next better unit. Just attack one we have the required forces (12-15 attackers, ~9 siege weapon, ~6 defenders, ~6 transports, ~6 defensive vessels).

The faster we get on with it, the faster we can assimilate HC's cities to research and build better units to turn on the rest of the world (except baldy of-course. lucky him!)

-

 

[Maquis]

Just an update, I got delayed today and was unable to play. I am planning on playing tomorrow, but ChrTh can play now if you would like.

Sorry again for the delay... holiday traffic was terrible!

 

[ChrTh]

I'm not going to have time to play for another 20-22 hours, so Maquis go ahead.

 

[namliaM]

Do we atleast agree on getting the Taj with the GE? I think using the GE is the only realistic chance of getting it...

Not counting Nationalism (due in 2)

Steel is 4 techs, 64 turns away, Guilds(7) Gunpowder(11) Chemistry(18) Steel(28)
We would have the ability to build Cannons Muskets and Grenadiers (Strenght 12 +50% vs Rifles)

MT is also 4 techs away (to build cavs anyway) Guilds(7), Gunpowder(11), Music (4) and MT (20) making a total of 42 turns
Cavs Strength 50, Only real defence: Rifles

I still want to work despiratly towart the PA, Gandhi is one of the tech leaders... If we can get the PA in place, we get his techs for FREE ... Just like that as an incentive bonus