SGOTM 01 - V Q

[namliaM]

I havent been able to play tonight, probably tomorrow tho...

How about OR? I think we want to get those Missionaries home ASAP and OR is there for just that purpose...

And we have the bonus help of on a few banks and stuff....

I might even consider switching off Vassalage to Bureucracy for a few turns to be able to build a bank and maybe some other Infra in Thebes. OR + Bureaucrace = +75% on buildings in Thebes Maybe we should delay it a bit for when we can build also the 3 Temples and 3 Monastaries...

I hope you guys dont mind me spending some gold to upgrade the Mace to Grenadier? It is quite some cash and I dont want to spend that kind of money (150 or so a pop? 2 or 3 times?) without your support. We are currently doing about +200gpt, so each upgrade means a turn of revenue, is it worth it? What do yall Think?

 

[ChrTh]

I thought with OR you can only build missionaries for your state religion, but now that I think about it I think I'm wrong. I see no issue with switching to OR to get religion spread and ka-ching. We'll probably want to go back to Vassalage when we get ready to take on FDR.

 

[Maquis]

re: Civics changes... remember we're Spiritual, so we should take advantage of the no anarchy... swtich back and forth more, as needed. I have no problem switching to beuracry to crank out some infra... as well as OR. Just as long as you're not planning on cranking out tons of units for another 5 turns...

 

[GreyFox]

Well, we are still the first to post a complete spoiler, if that is any consolation.

--

As I have posted before, jsut keep switching civics if you feel like MM'ing. Let see, my original post:

It make sense. In fact, if people feel like MM'ing, an optimal use of the spiritual trait is to keep switching civics every 5 turns or so.

For instance, you first switch to police state + Theorarcy + caste system to build units and hire artists. 5 turns later, you switch to representations + slavery + OR, all units not finished are delayed, switching all city prod to buildings. Then when you can switch civics again, you turn back the queued units and apply the whip. than change civics back to police state + thecarcy so that the units will all gain the +2 xp. Rinse and repeat.

Too much MM for my taste ... I think its worst than biary research

SO, you could gain the benefits of both OR and theocracy if you do it right.

But remmeber OR currently only helps the original cities. So make sure you are building buildings in the original cities while in OR.

Also remember that Vassalage and Theocracy matters only at the turn when units are out of the barracks. So you can still build units when in other civics ... just queue those units at 1 turn remaining to wait for the switch to Vas+theo before letting them join the pass-out parade.

I don't think CRII grenadiers are worth it. It will be nice if we have tons of gold, like producing 1000gpt @ 0%. But we don't. Now, it hurts our science too much just to get even for 1. SO, no, I don't think we should be using Fox-03 technique to build macemans to be upgraded to grenadiers.

I think you could use whatever money we currently have to upgrade some maceman to grenadiers, but limit yourself to that.

One thing we can do though is ask Gandhi for money . Just make sure you asked nicely, all meekly and all that.

--

 

[bobrath]

Do I really have to weigh in?


More Smashy!!!! Saladin needs to go down - as quickly as we can manage. We could try to get a PA with Baldy, but IMO if we reach 60 turns and still don't have it... where are we at that point? Would we be in a better or worse position?

In 60 turns, I'd hope we'd have removed Saladin from the game or at least reduced him to a fishing village chieftan. Invinting FDR in at the end of that war to break any other DP he forms is a natural progression.

In 60 turns, I'd hope that we'd have converted some of those poorly founded cities on our contienent and settled some of the other outlying islands (any with 2 food resources are obvious picks to pump our population).

In 60 turns, with appropriate tech choices and builds will be on an equal or better tech footing then everyone but Baldy.


OR

In 60 turns, our hard "work" pays off and Ghandi gives us a PA. Then we have to mop up a few pop points.



High Risk/High Reward.


BUT WAIT there's another even more risky option... Mutual Military Struggle. Get Ghandi to declare on Saladin as we fight a slower war - aiming for a tech Ghandi doesn't have. Get him in it and do our best to make that war last far longer then it should... and see if the PA comes available. Along the way, start pulling another tech or two that Baldy doesn't have to get him to jump on FDR or Cyrus with us to continue the struggle.


You know me, always making choices easier!!!

 

[namliaM]

@GreyFox I wasnt thinking building the Macemen and giving them CR2 and upgrading them, you are right we dont have the MONEY. Tho I did MM a lot to make some MONEY.
I am talking about 2 or 3 Macemen that have CR3 allready and some Axemen that should be turned into something usefull (Macemen)
Hmz, ask Gandhi for some Cash, I hadnt thought of that one... Maybe even FDR or Cyrus Every little bit counts

I think its a good idea to try and take in Baldy on Saladin, but we are not going to have steel anytime soon.... and we would like to trade it for something usefull me thinks... Dont know about this mutual struggle thing... The war with FDR is going to take a while...

On taking on Saladin, we will be getting an additional holy city but all in all we are digging a deeper economic hole for ourselves, which is why I firmly believe in getting those banks up.

So my turns will be MM all the way and carrying troops from HC country to Seattle.

Important
If we are going to declare on FDR we have to remember his force on HC country. Quite a few Cavs there, we will have to take out... OR flip that darned city of his before we get to that point. He is near our holy Judist city, so culture isnt that much of a problem . But I dont know how long its gonna take to flip.... and if it flips do we want to keep it?


I think I will spend my 10 turns in OR and Bureacracy mostly as I cue up a unit here and there. Also A lot of my turns are going to be 0 science....

On Hyderabad, once it flips (now at size 7) we do want to keep that right?

 

[GreyFox]

On taking on Saladin, we will be getting an additional holy city but all in all we are digging a deeper economic hole for ourselves, which is why I firmly believe in getting those banks up.

Nah, don't worry about economy so much in a game where we spent 5000 years in a war, and when we finally ends it, we are starting yet another one. Once communisim is in, just switch to State Property and all economic problem solved.

and if it flips do we want to keep it? On Hyderabad, once it flips (now at size 7) we do want to keep that right?

Yes, keep all cities from now on. Every bits helps now.

Also A lot of my turns are going to be 0 science....

, why? I see absolutely no point in running 0% science now. I think you can use whatever money there is to upgrade units, but not at the expense of science. Especially not when you have not built your beloved banks yet.

Do I really have to weigh in?

Er... not really, I think we already have decided on attacking Saladin right away ...

 

[namliaM]

0 science because we have a scientist comming (hopefully) who can build us an Academy and because if we can spread the word, having 3 more Monastaries around can help nicely.
I think we need 6 or so turns at 100% science (tho that will change drasticaly with Buro) we are currently at +200 at 0 science and -300 at 100. Therefor we need 6*300 = 1800 in the bank. That is 9 turns at 0 science, offcourse this may varry as to when we start cashing in on Saladin , but other than declaring war on him I dont think I will be doing much but shuttling troops.

Do we want to take Saladins Island state on the move? Or shall we leave him that island so we can make peace for some pointy stick research? If he has anything to offer at that point? Cause currently he doesnt.
Finaly on Saladin, he is not giving up his 200 gold... Do we want to releave him of his access cash by "Giving" him astronomy? I say its worth the gamble, he will probably build a Galleon, maybe 2 but nothing we cannot handle... 200 gold is a lot of upgrades for a Monarch AI....

One more thing I wanted to ask, do we want to spread Hindu to HC Land? I mean we do get the bonusses there then but it also gives Gandhi more Ching...

 

[GreyFox]

- I still disagree with giving Astro just for 200 gold. Unless you are telling me that the upgrade from say warrior to Mustketman is like 5 gold, then maybe it is worth it.

- I still think its a mistake to go for 0% science in one go. Chances are you would forget to turn it back on when you accumulated sufficient gold, and you will be tempted to use the gold to upgrade, and AIs will come asking for your gold. If you want to do binary research, just put it at 100%, if there is enough money, good. If not, then go to 0 and try again next turn before you press enter.

- I think you can try to spread Hinduism to new cities if you are going OR ... why not? Once you spread a few, dial up Gandhi and rise our price of Gems. There, we get the money back

But, (there is always a but), these are just how I would play. You can damned bloody well play your turnset anyway you please! Just enjoy the game. okay?

 

[bobrath]

<.<
>.>
<.<

Its too quiet here...

 

[eektor]

Its too quiet here...

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[namliaM]

While loading I suffer a couple of Crashes Twice CIV stalls on me and A CTD
For some reason my PC desides it to warm or something and reboots??
WTH? I guess I am not supposed to play today??

Well, I did some research into the Monarch AI privileges. I found a refence on the forum in this http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=172587 thread, where one can find in post#5 that the Upgrade cost benifit of the AI is only 20% so I tend to agree the 200 is not that much...

On the other hand it is 1 turn of revenue for us, and I find myself torn...
Just to delay the decision (spelling?) I start looking around our empire.
Everything, but I do mean everything is checked and double checked.
Take Moscow as an example, it was working hills where we still have 2 food cottages to work and it had 2 specialists... Well lets work those cottages, unfortunatly they are still cottages


It is costing us some hammers all this MM-ing and costing us some GP points, but I find all this food going to waste when we need money badly a bad choice. Feel free to shout at me after, but I do raise our revenue from 191gpt to 222gpt at 0% science and 10% Culture.

Ganghi is a pain in the... you know what and he can stick the gems you know where... He is not helping us at all, no war on Saladin and Not even 10 meagre gold peaces ... In total dismay I cancel the gems and renew the deal for 1gpt more


I tell Saladin that he is going to end up as our lunch.... offcourse we lose his 7gpt we were extorting from him, Uhm I for 1 totaly forgot about that one...

I wait to revolt 1 turn to make the WW go away, I am thinking of changing out of Police state for a bit as well....

 

[ChrTh]

<.<
>.>
<.<

Its too quiet here...

Dammit! I wasthisclose to SGOTM Enlightenment!

Back to

 

[bobrath]

[jedi mind trick]
This is not the enlightment you're looking for
[/jedi mind trick]

 

[ChrTh]

@namliaM: You lost me, are you playing, ruminating, etc.?

 

[bobrath]

I think he's crashing.

 

[namliaM]

And so after hours of toiling with the game and my conscience I finaly deside not to trade and finaly press enter

And so my set of ten turns finaly starts... The first turn at war is a bit dissappointing, a lone Pike dies to our parked Cavelier.

And saladin is nice enough to revolt to Vassalage, on the good side it should mean no production for 1 turn. On the other side it means we will be facing a little more experienced troops.

The turn after as we build our first Gunpowder unit?? We also pop a Great Engineer, he can be used to build a Wonder someday?? Wait to trigger a GA with antoher specialist or get in 1900+ beakers on steam power


1640 and turn 2 I dail up FDR to see if he has anything to offer, 1gpt more for our gems and I find 2 warriors still hanging about, they are gone save 2 more gpt.

1643 Appearently someone at Fireaxes like the little boy wonder that plays in Home Alone... We are alone in his assesment of the world, we are number 1

This year we actually start the war with Saladin, alltho it is about his island state....

This shouldnt take more than a few turns with some Cavs and Knights on the way

This year most the Unit build that are due are finished, so I revolt to:

Prior to the revolution we were going Steel in 9 (at 100%) and -321gpt. Now we have Steel in 8 and -332gpt. Missionaries are ordered up...

Khurasan falls the next turn after 2 more bombardments and 2 invisible attacks, 1 cav and 1 Knight take out a Longbow and a Crossbow, but CD I without problems. I have a Mace and another knight as extra backup tho...

These units are also going to be transported to the mainland, ASAP. Where 3 cavs and a Cat are waiting. They start heading over the mountains and pillaging a Corn field which will fall to FDR lands after we take that city.

-- More to follow

 

[namliaM]

As I start to advance on Medina (using my northern route...) Re-inforcements start arriving.

I made a misclick on landing one of the Knights which immediatly got picked of by a camel archer... Just barely tho... Note the now bare Corn and all the ships nearing the coast

Also note the warning message of the Enemy near Yakuts.... Check out the enemy we have to face back home


1655 and near all our forces are at the gats of Medina, this is not funny at the moment. Our Cav only has 20% right now, but 4 (only 4!!!) bombardments later, Medina is down to 0% defence...

First batter at the home plate of Medina, A cav takes out a Musketman. Next a Pikeman runs off into the great waters to the north of Medina (really) when faced with a Cav at what must have been increadable odds. I watched in ammazement, but forget to take the screeny . Hence the ??
Next is a longbow at 88% and a Camel archer takes a nose dive at 95%.
2 CR II Macemen take out 2 catapult stationed in Medina, oddly enough at different percentages ???
A final mace takes out the heavily wounded Camel that took down our Knight... and Medina is ours

Just to the NW of Medina it is a big Elephant farm, I do not like the prospect of to meany Elephants showing up. So I take out the Guarding Crossbow and the Farms are (or will be) distroyed. Meaning, we make a little money and Saladin gets no more Elephants

 

[namliaM]

The big strike back by Saladin is very intence indeed. After taking Medina, this is what happens...

Yes a Lone camel and I was expecting Unit uppon unit ....

Next something of intrest happenes, which we should all take as a learning point. Here we all were thinking we were giving Gandhi money by converting everything to Hindu, but only now does he build that temple...
Next time I/we should check to see if the shrine has been build.... Geez...


Our galleons double as spies, as one of our galleons spots a small force near bagdad. Just as I had gone out (see top right corner) of Medina....

Now that is looking more like it Saladin, come on you are disappointing me

Like they say in the song ....
WHOOPS, THERE IT IS
The counter attack of Saladin, tho why he let us take Medina this easy like?? Another AI Flaw I say...

Quite a force, 5 Camel Archers, 5 Elephants, 5 Catapults, 2 pikes and a crossbow... and as you can just tell on the top left I still had some units out to pillage them Elephant tents last turn, well they came in for some good use as a Cav takes down a Elephant to be followed by a Cav taking down a Pike. Both Cavs go hide in Medina with their second move.

From Medina I also strike out at the Camel and Cat due east of it (I am not going to attack over the river, I will leave that for Saladin to do )


All the units that landed the turn before also go hide in Medina and everyone that can (Longbows and Grenadiers) get city defence boni and is fortified if possible. And I sit tight as it unfolds before my eyes....

 

[namliaM]

First visitor is a Catapult (Huh? AI doing something right?) which is struck down by a Cav... and dubbel huh? Only 6 units get colatoral damage? I must have 20+, including some Cats in there...
Next another Cat defended by another Cav... Followed by a third session in a row...
A cav succesfully fends off a Camel that flees.

The next camel however bites the dust, trying to chew up another Cav...
A granedier blows an Elephant away, followed by a copy of this. The third Elephant faces our Longbow and FAILS
Elephant #4 chews on a Granade and dies, then whohoooo Saladin gets one as an Elephant stomps all over a Longbow.
Then a Maceman (where did he come from?) tries his luck, dont go bettin' Saladin... The mace goes at the hand of a Cav. (Getting boring yet???)
Next a Crossbow is thrown against the mountains by ... yes... another Cav...
Their twins do it all over and another Crossbow dies on a Cav...

All thats left to do is whipe up the left overs....


Most the units in Medina remain unmoved, but most of them also need healing after all that. Up to the next one if we want to move out with the cats allready....