SGOTM 02 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
So city 2 1W of the spot??
Plans (it seems a daunting task):
Plans (it seems a daunting task):
- Keep ferrying missionaries
- DONT trade astro, but we want to get philo so we can use the GS for education? This means we still have nothing to trade, and what exactly should we research?
- Build a navy: a daisy chain to southern Mali will take about 5 galleons, so we'll start with 5-6.
- Build an army: hmm... Berlin has 3 longbow, 1 mace, 1 pike, 1 knight, 2 cats. Assuming our enemy will have similar, what will we need? If we have 5-6 galleons, thats 15-18 units in the first wave... maybe 6 cats, 8 samurai... I don't know... I'm not great at creating an invasion force.
- Setup Madrid for GPF - first stop GP for shrine in Toledo, and the 3 I mentioned for commerce. Everyone else gears up for war (except the new settlers produced)
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
For what it's worth, I think we should go after Huayna first. He's closest, and he gives us a good beach head on the ring continent without overextending our SLOCs. With a city properly placed on the east coast of our island, we'll be able to ferry troops across very efficiently.
Huayna is also on his own when it comes to religion. That means he's isolated, like we are. Less risk of him pulling somebody else into the war, which we cannot afford right now.
During this time, we should be pumping missionaries over to Germany and whoever else will allow them, with the intent to convert to Christianity, if possible. We have to break up that Buddhist bloc, or we'll be in deep doo-doo in short order. Being Christian is already having dire consequences for us on the world stage. Either we convert people, or we switch, one way or another.
An academy in Osaka would give huge science boost, if I'm not mistaken.
What are we going to do about stone and whale island? Settle it or not? Soon whales are going to go obsolete, but it would be just like Gyathaar to put an oil spot in between them.
Huayna is also on his own when it comes to religion. That means he's isolated, like we are. Less risk of him pulling somebody else into the war, which we cannot afford right now.
During this time, we should be pumping missionaries over to Germany and whoever else will allow them, with the intent to convert to Christianity, if possible. We have to break up that Buddhist bloc, or we'll be in deep doo-doo in short order. Being Christian is already having dire consequences for us on the world stage. Either we convert people, or we switch, one way or another.
An academy in Osaka would give huge science boost, if I'm not mistaken.
What are we going to do about stone and whale island? Settle it or not? Soon whales are going to go obsolete, but it would be just like Gyathaar to put an oil spot in between them.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
We'll loose the hill S of gold in city2 to gain the western one: no difference, but less overlap with Aryan and city1, plus my spot gives a +1H, beeing in ph.BrianS said:
I agree with Merum, HC is there to be our first victim.
With his coast so close, 5-6 galleons are sufficient to ferry our units:
after the first vawe we'll have more galleons that we'll can use.
Better train 2-3 pikes, too, if knights are around.
And yes, i'll settle the stone island, whales are obsoleted by combustion, it seems a bit far to me.
anyway whales provide "a rich yield" fot the city.
If we know paper, our GS will help for Education.
An academy after 1200AD doesn't make sense, we are not going for culture.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
BLubmuz said:
Not going for culture, but we do still need science. It's going to be difficult to beat rifles and cavalry with macemen and cats. +50% science in Osaka would give us a lot of beakers/turn. Maybe it's not enough to outweigh the cost of a single tech, but I'm not sure.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
@Merum
A GS helps for some 2700 beakers for Education.
Just open the game, enter Osaka (or hit F1), see how much base gold it produces, and compt how many turns we need to break-even with the 50% of that (i suppose some 150 turns).
A university gives the same 50% than an Academy, but we'll can build universities in all our cities.
A GS helps for some 2700 beakers for Education.
Just open the game, enter Osaka (or hit F1), see how much base gold it produces, and compt how many turns we need to break-even with the 50% of that (i suppose some 150 turns).
A university gives the same 50% than an Academy, but we'll can build universities in all our cities.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
Fine with me.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
of course, but i was meaning we don't loose a hill, we just take another one (please take a look at the map) PLUS we'll get a +1HBrianS said:
we can use this and your previous post to chat, or we'll find ourselves with 3000 posts today
Doom Train
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2002
- Messages
- 204
I think we should leave HC alone and try to bring down one of Buddhist. Because HC can be a world war starter in future since he doesn t share religion with others. An agressive trouble maker in mainland is exactly what we want to weaken Buddhist s.
But on the other hand if attack one of the Buddhist there is a possiblity of 4 vs 1 fight which we will probaby lose.
Only idea i ve got is convert Bismark to Christianity bribe him to attack Egypt(he was ready to war back in few turnsets when he was Hindu) with us but it seems impossible now.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
If we declare war on a Buddhist, they will bring all of the other Buddhists down on top of us quicker than you can say "Jack Robinson". Really bad idea. Best way to handle the Buddhists, IMO, is to convert members of their coalition now, and attack them piecemeal later.
I wish I had been thinking of this sooner. We need to jam missionaries into Germany, Mongolia, and China, as quickly as we can, before they close their borders to us as well. Either that, or we need to try to get buddhism.
I wish I had been thinking of this sooner. We need to jam missionaries into Germany, Mongolia, and China, as quickly as we can, before they close their borders to us as well. Either that, or we need to try to get buddhism.
I spent some time this evening looking over the save. Really nice turnset Merum. You've left us in good shape.
Diplomacy and War:
Should we focus on converting KK and Birsmack? KK is the highest scoring Buddha at least cautious towards us. It would be great to drive a wedge between KK and Hatty. Also, he is well positioned to help us in war with HC. I know we're reluctant to attack the only non-Buddhist, but if we can convert B and KK, we'll have a significant block. Also, Huamanga and Tiwanaku would make a great toehold onto the continent. Being on the peninsula, they should be easier to defend.
Research:
Alhazen is hanging out in Osaka. If we hang on to him, will contribute signifantly towads researcing Education (~4000 beakers). Alternatively, he can build an Academy, which increases beaker production by 50%. Osaka generates 85 BPT at 100% research rate, so net add is 44 BPT at current rates. I believe the Academy has cumulative effects which make it even more powerful, so it will have paid for itself in less than 90 turns, maybe much less. In the end, though, I think we have a shot at Liberalism, and we should try for it by spending Alhazen on Education
Osaka:
There is an engineer citizen that would do better working the mined PH next to the river. This results in +5 HPT plus another gold coin. This was probably a governor add from last growth pop.
City 2:
I still vote for 1W of the hillsite on Blubmuz's map. Both sites give 2 plains hills, but the city on a hill site takes one of those hills away (at a bonus of only +1HPT for the city site). If we want to maximize production quickly in that city, I would think we'd want to mine both hills.
Seville:
Work 1 of the sugars instead of the cottage to goose growth.
Cordoba:
Steal the sugar from Barcelona, which can work the rice instead, again to goose growth.
Santiago:
Let it grow. It has 2 hills we can mine and will make a decent little production city. So put the citizen on the wheat and let's farm that wheat.
Madrid:
5 angry citizens. It could use a whipping. We can whip a colliseum (190h) or whip a galleon(120) since we will know Astro next turn. The thing about a colliseum is that it also gives a happy face. Can we maximize whip for both? Also, we have a plain old citizen there, and we should probably make him a scientist. Also may want to consider changing Engineer to scientist.
Whaley Rock:
I agree we should build a city there.
Worker actions:
Farm 1W of Copper (between Osaka/Tokyo).
Diplomacy and War:
Should we focus on converting KK and Birsmack? KK is the highest scoring Buddha at least cautious towards us. It would be great to drive a wedge between KK and Hatty. Also, he is well positioned to help us in war with HC. I know we're reluctant to attack the only non-Buddhist, but if we can convert B and KK, we'll have a significant block. Also, Huamanga and Tiwanaku would make a great toehold onto the continent. Being on the peninsula, they should be easier to defend.
Research:
Alhazen is hanging out in Osaka. If we hang on to him, will contribute signifantly towads researcing Education (~4000 beakers). Alternatively, he can build an Academy, which increases beaker production by 50%. Osaka generates 85 BPT at 100% research rate, so net add is 44 BPT at current rates. I believe the Academy has cumulative effects which make it even more powerful, so it will have paid for itself in less than 90 turns, maybe much less. In the end, though, I think we have a shot at Liberalism, and we should try for it by spending Alhazen on Education
Osaka:
There is an engineer citizen that would do better working the mined PH next to the river. This results in +5 HPT plus another gold coin. This was probably a governor add from last growth pop.
City 2:
I still vote for 1W of the hillsite on Blubmuz's map. Both sites give 2 plains hills, but the city on a hill site takes one of those hills away (at a bonus of only +1HPT for the city site). If we want to maximize production quickly in that city, I would think we'd want to mine both hills.
Seville:
Work 1 of the sugars instead of the cottage to goose growth.
Cordoba:
Steal the sugar from Barcelona, which can work the rice instead, again to goose growth.
Santiago:
Let it grow. It has 2 hills we can mine and will make a decent little production city. So put the citizen on the wheat and let's farm that wheat.
Madrid:
5 angry citizens. It could use a whipping. We can whip a colliseum (190h) or whip a galleon(120) since we will know Astro next turn. The thing about a colliseum is that it also gives a happy face. Can we maximize whip for both? Also, we have a plain old citizen there, and we should probably make him a scientist. Also may want to consider changing Engineer to scientist.
Whaley Rock:
I agree we should build a city there.
Worker actions:
Farm 1W of Copper (between Osaka/Tokyo).
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Thanks for all the great advice, but I just thought I'd go and attack Hatty *joke*. OK, so here we go:
2 cat, 3 spear, 4 sam, 5 sword, 11 axe, 2 longbow, 6 caravel
Preturn 1328
MM cities, noticed that another GP due in about 8 turns, so made academy in Osaka.
Turn 1
Astronomy! Hatty offers silk for our sugar - ok, why not... for now. All trade routes now open, so I traded with the bhuddists for gpt.
Whippped temple in Madrid, market in Barca.
Settled Edo 1W of hill.
Turn 2 1340
zzzz
Turn 3 1346
Whipped FP in Kyoto
Turn 4 1352
zzzzz
Turn 5 1358
zzzz
Turn 6 1364
zzzz
Turn 7 1370
Paper in, but the GS comes in next go, I'll wait til then (although KK will trade)
Turn 8 1376
Oops, stilk 4 ore til edu... trade paper for drama, money and world map.
Turn 9 1382
zzzz
Turn 10 1388
Mao wants to trade world maps, I mean to press what will make this work but hit accept? Oh well.
Turn 11 1394
Education - trade to mao and KK... others have it. Is it worth going for liberalism?
OK, I stopped here because of the tech question. Gunpowder is starting to show it's ugly head... the settler is reasy for the south coast (dammit I forgot to make one at Kyoto!), galleons are getting done, missionaries are spreading the word, but it seems as tho our uu isnt going to cut it... I haven't really been army making due to this, but was trying to fatten up the cities so we can whip one together when we are ready. So, where to next?
Log
2 cat, 3 spear, 4 sam, 5 sword, 11 axe, 2 longbow, 6 caravel
Preturn 1328
MM cities, noticed that another GP due in about 8 turns, so made academy in Osaka.
Turn 1
Astronomy! Hatty offers silk for our sugar - ok, why not... for now. All trade routes now open, so I traded with the bhuddists for gpt.
Whippped temple in Madrid, market in Barca.
Settled Edo 1W of hill.
Turn 2 1340
zzzz
Turn 3 1346
Whipped FP in Kyoto
Turn 4 1352
zzzzz
Turn 5 1358
zzzz
Turn 6 1364
zzzz
Turn 7 1370
Paper in, but the GS comes in next go, I'll wait til then (although KK will trade)
Turn 8 1376
Oops, stilk 4 ore til edu... trade paper for drama, money and world map.
Turn 9 1382
zzzz
Turn 10 1388
Mao wants to trade world maps, I mean to press what will make this work but hit accept? Oh well.
Turn 11 1394
Education - trade to mao and KK... others have it. Is it worth going for liberalism?
OK, I stopped here because of the tech question. Gunpowder is starting to show it's ugly head... the settler is reasy for the south coast (dammit I forgot to make one at Kyoto!), galleons are getting done, missionaries are spreading the word, but it seems as tho our uu isnt going to cut it... I haven't really been army making due to this, but was trying to fatten up the cities so we can whip one together when we are ready. So, where to next?
Log
Spoiler :
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
I didn't include the save because I haven't submitted it yet... I was going to play the other four turns and then do that... but I'll just submit it now.
Missionaries are going ok.. there's one in Germany now and one in Mongolia, one being built in Kyoto (probbly a bad place to build them in hindsight). We just have to remember to have 3 out there at all times for the next 30 turns or so to keep it spreading.
We have one galleon, 2 almost built. After we build 2 more we should be ready to fight... so units will need to be created/ marshalled in the next TS, imo.
Madrid needs to be MMd, I was stuffing around with it trying to manufacture a GProphet, but I don't think that will happen there.
A settler is on the south coast ready to settle, and has an axe escort 2 steps behind. The barb city Gaul has a small force outside it, but has 3 longbows as defence. There is a cat on the way down, iirc.
the save
Missionaries are going ok.. there's one in Germany now and one in Mongolia, one being built in Kyoto (probbly a bad place to build them in hindsight). We just have to remember to have 3 out there at all times for the next 30 turns or so to keep it spreading.
We have one galleon, 2 almost built. After we build 2 more we should be ready to fight... so units will need to be created/ marshalled in the next TS, imo.
Madrid needs to be MMd, I was stuffing around with it trying to manufacture a GProphet, but I don't think that will happen there.
A settler is on the south coast ready to settle, and has an axe escort 2 steps behind. The barb city Gaul has a small force outside it, but has 3 longbows as defence. There is a cat on the way down, iirc.
the save
Sorry, didn't mean to rush your turn. You can still finish it out. I just thought it would help to look at the save to think about tech choices. I'll try to look this morning, but I have to get on a plane to London in a few hours, so I may not get a chance.
Perugia
Prince
Sorry for not posting recently but I have been very busy at work.
With regard to the missionaries, I suggest we only convert AI cities we are going to want to keep and don't waste missionaries on those we will raze (at least until we have converted all the ones we want to keep!).
The ones to raze are any small underdeveloped ones or any that are not needed to prevent the Ai re-settling razed areas.
Below is a table I have devised to give all the details of the way a 25% hammer bonus eg forge or OR works with pop rushing.
I am working on one for 50% and 100% as well and will also look at the save tomorrow.
edit
OK. Apart from attacking the non-Buddhists HC and MM we can also attack China as Shanghai is the Islamic holy city. Therefore if we attack the Inca first as they are close and there is the excellent isthmus landing spot where we can build up and use our galleons for end runs to quickly expand the front to Vilcabamba and Vitcos HC should fall quickly. Especially if we can persuade KK to help us attack HC we can later send some units into Mongol territory and invade China. With KK giving us mutual enemy points we can then get him to DoW on Bismarck and Mao. China will switch to Islam so Hatty will not help him. We Dow on China and take that out giving us a second base.
Meanwhile Ollantaytambo and Cuzco fall to us eliminating HC. We can then culture bomb Ollantaytambo so we can start producing Buddhist missionaries which will allow us to convert and get some better trade from Bismarck and Hatty.
I'm not sure how we can get Hatty to change her attitude to MM from pleased but we only get -1 diplo points for the DoW so it's OK. Does anyone think the Buddhists will help the Malinese as they are different religions I don't think likely so after HC we can roll over MM with KKs help.
Musketmen should not worry our pinch promoted Samurai much but once Riflemen appear we will need Grenadiers. Military Tradition would be nice as well.
Madrid should start the National Epic as soon as possible for +100% Great People points and should work both the rice and sheep for max growth in order to get lots of unhappy citizens we can whip it with. There are 2 forests between Barcelona and Madrid outside city radii that we should send a worker to chop. One might go towards the National Epic the other will be for Barcelona. I'd drop some scientists there in favour of food but the engineers and priests are OK.
I still think our GS is better off giving us Education rather than the Osaka Academy.
With regard to the missionaries, I suggest we only convert AI cities we are going to want to keep and don't waste missionaries on those we will raze (at least until we have converted all the ones we want to keep!).
The ones to raze are any small underdeveloped ones or any that are not needed to prevent the Ai re-settling razed areas.
Below is a table I have devised to give all the details of the way a 25% hammer bonus eg forge or OR works with pop rushing.
I am working on one for 50% and 100% as well and will also look at the save tomorrow.
edit
No they won't if the one we attack has the holy city for a non-Buddha religion as they will convert to their own religion an no longer be Buddhist so won't get help from the other Buddhists.Merum said:
OK. Apart from attacking the non-Buddhists HC and MM we can also attack China as Shanghai is the Islamic holy city. Therefore if we attack the Inca first as they are close and there is the excellent isthmus landing spot where we can build up and use our galleons for end runs to quickly expand the front to Vilcabamba and Vitcos HC should fall quickly. Especially if we can persuade KK to help us attack HC we can later send some units into Mongol territory and invade China. With KK giving us mutual enemy points we can then get him to DoW on Bismarck and Mao. China will switch to Islam so Hatty will not help him. We Dow on China and take that out giving us a second base.
Meanwhile Ollantaytambo and Cuzco fall to us eliminating HC. We can then culture bomb Ollantaytambo so we can start producing Buddhist missionaries which will allow us to convert and get some better trade from Bismarck and Hatty.
I'm not sure how we can get Hatty to change her attitude to MM from pleased but we only get -1 diplo points for the DoW so it's OK. Does anyone think the Buddhists will help the Malinese as they are different religions I don't think likely so after HC we can roll over MM with KKs help.
Musketmen should not worry our pinch promoted Samurai much but once Riflemen appear we will need Grenadiers. Military Tradition would be nice as well.
Madrid should start the National Epic as soon as possible for +100% Great People points and should work both the rice and sheep for max growth in order to get lots of unhappy citizens we can whip it with. There are 2 forests between Barcelona and Madrid outside city radii that we should send a worker to chop. One might go towards the National Epic the other will be for Barcelona. I'd drop some scientists there in favour of food but the engineers and priests are OK.
I still think our GS is better off giving us Education rather than the Osaka Academy.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
Perugia said:
I must say I can't remember ever seeing this behavior, but if you're absolutely certain that they will do this (what is your source?) then I'll certainly defer to your judgement.
That said, I certainly still think we need to start with HC. The plan of going after China next sounds OK to me, while we should still work on converting Bismarck, if possible.
We'll need to beef up our islands inside the ring continent before we attack.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Perugia said:
Ah... I didn't make that clear, did I. I made the academy with the stored GS, and another popped out several turns later, which I used on education... it all worked out pretty nicely.
I wasn't sure whether it was worth starting on liberalism, as a few other civs already had education (and other pre reqs), and I'm sure the AI would try to pick it up. Check the screenshots in my TS post for easy tech reference.
Madrid - as I said, it needs MMing as I was experimenting. I saw the Nat Epic was available, and I agree it should go in Madrid, however we are a little weak on naval prod'n sites, I thought we should get the galleons out asap before our samu's are useless. I think we need another 2-3 galleons, although we have 1 galley that could be upgraded (can't we?).
Missionaries: Bismark has bhuddism in all cities, so we'll need missionaries for all of them. I sent one to KK, but maybe that should go to Bismark... converting KK would take a lot of prod that could be spent on his destruction instead.
War with HC: we all seem to agree that this should be the next war, and soon. We are very light on cats - thats a priority... actually, just a thought that sea bombardment on this map will be a highly successful tactic - something to keep in mind! However, for now we DO need to beef up those inner cities, and maybe send 4 of the caravels to the inside of the horseshoe for defence, as they are getting increasingly useless outside.
I may as well pass on the TS now... 11 turns is close enough. It's Perugia up next, isn't it?
Perugia
Prince
OK Thanks Sweetacshon. I must admit I have not been following the thread else I'd have see you built the Academy and learned Education - although I would not have known that you used another GS for Ed. Anyway you did the right things.
Perugia (up)
BLubmuz (on deck)
Doom Train
BrianS
Merum
Sweetacshon (resting)
@Merum - the link you are looking for is paragraph 4) of the Religions in Emperor and Above - Observations and Thoughts Stategy Article from the War Academy. However, I think I misinterpreted this slightly as it seems you have to have the same religion as the civ you DoW on. In our game if we convert to Buddhism then when we attack Chine, Mao should convert to Islam
. I have to admit I have not actually tried this but still think we should give it a go.
Once we have our basic buildings for each city specialism and are into unit cranking mode we should consider switching to Theocracy and perhaps Police State. I think we should stay with Bureaucracy rather than Vassalage.
Plan
I will edit this as I look around the save some more
1) Gear up for war on HC as we seem to be agreed that is the best strategy.
2) Beef up the defences of the inner cities. edit l do not think HC has any ports on the inner sea so we can DoW on HC before the defenses are completed.
3) Ensure our production cities have forge and barracks where needed then churn out units
4) Continue building up our infrastructure in sci/gold/GP cities
5) Keep the missionaries flowing. edit Gifting to the AI will speed this up and maximise chance of success.
6)Look at when and what to start as the next tech. edit I can MM Liberalism down to 6 turns I think it is worth a gamble cos we can then take Communism as the free tech and adopt State Property.
7) Settle new city as planned and take Gaul
8) Hatty and Bismarck will renegotiate some resource for cash deals in our favour
9) Sell our world map around.
Medium Term Plan
A) Get KK to DoW on our enemies
B) Convert Bismarck to Christianity (or Hindu) and get him to DoW on Hatty (close borders)
C) Convert Japan to Buddhism and DoW on China who should then convert to Islam
D) Research MT and Chemistry
Q Can I have some help on converting Bismarck and KK. How many of their cities need to be Christian for them to agree to convert and remain Christian. Is it simply having more Christian cities than other religions? Sweetacshon said that Bismarck has Buddhism in all cities so we have to convert all. That would be for him to remain Christian wouldn't it so we can actually make the last few conversions once he is Christian - yes or no? A see post by Doom Train.
Q How long should we hold onto Astronomy? A from Merum - until HC is broken and we have converted Bismarck.
Madrid
Next turn it grows an unhappy person and has 50 hammers left on the galleon so I will whip 1 pop for 88 hammers thanks to the forge and start the NE.
We need Hindu and Taoist temples so we can generate a Great Prophet. I'll try and get Kyoto, Surf n Turf and Santiago to oblige.
Perugia (up)
BLubmuz (on deck)
Doom Train
BrianS
Merum
Sweetacshon (resting)
@Merum - the link you are looking for is paragraph 4) of the Religions in Emperor and Above - Observations and Thoughts Stategy Article from the War Academy. However, I think I misinterpreted this slightly as it seems you have to have the same religion as the civ you DoW on. In our game if we convert to Buddhism then when we attack Chine, Mao should convert to Islam
. I have to admit I have not actually tried this but still think we should give it a go.Once we have our basic buildings for each city specialism and are into unit cranking mode we should consider switching to Theocracy and perhaps Police State. I think we should stay with Bureaucracy rather than Vassalage.
Plan
I will edit this as I look around the save some more
1) Gear up for war on HC as we seem to be agreed that is the best strategy.
2) Beef up the defences of the inner cities. edit l do not think HC has any ports on the inner sea so we can DoW on HC before the defenses are completed.
3) Ensure our production cities have forge and barracks where needed then churn out units
4) Continue building up our infrastructure in sci/gold/GP cities
5) Keep the missionaries flowing. edit Gifting to the AI will speed this up and maximise chance of success.
6)
7) Settle new city as planned and take Gaul
8) Hatty and Bismarck will renegotiate some resource for cash deals in our favour
9) Sell our world map around.
Medium Term Plan
A) Get KK to DoW on our enemies
B) Convert Bismarck to Christianity (or Hindu) and get him to DoW on Hatty (close borders)
C) Convert Japan to Buddhism and DoW on China who should then convert to Islam
D) Research MT and Chemistry
Q Can I have some help on converting Bismarck and KK. How many of their cities need to be Christian for them to agree to convert and remain Christian. Is it simply having more Christian cities than other religions? Sweetacshon said that Bismarck has Buddhism in all cities so we have to convert all. That would be for him to remain Christian wouldn't it so we can actually make the last few conversions once he is Christian - yes or no? A see post by Doom Train.
Q How long should we hold onto Astronomy? A from Merum - until HC is broken and we have converted Bismarck.
Madrid
Next turn it grows an unhappy person and has 50 hammers left on the galleon so I will whip 1 pop for 88 hammers thanks to the forge and start the NE.
We need Hindu and Taoist temples so we can generate a Great Prophet. I'll try and get Kyoto, Surf n Turf and Santiago to oblige.
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