SGOTM 02 - Fifth Element

Perugia · Oct 3, 2006

Turns now played & lots of moves left. See posts below for turn log and more screenies.

Spoiler :

BrianS · Oct 3, 2006

What a fun turnset. Great job Perugia. Olly should be ours next turn, and Vitcos in 2 turns. Are we keeping Olly and burning Vitcos? Vitcos looks pretty useless.

After Vitcos, do we sue for peace or press on towards Vilcabamba? If we take and keep Vilcabamba, our hold on the southern band will be stronger. Otherwise we'll have this jag of Vilcabamba culture sullying the purity of our culture. I believe we're strong enough to take Vilca, so I think we should.

I like the movement on the power graph. We have blown by KK and and Bismarck.

Also, I'm liking the earlier decision to send KK to war with Hatty. It has eaten into KK's strength. I'm glad Hatty took the brunt of that. I think we should stop feeding techs to KK, as we want to be at least a tech ahead when we finally take him on. Is he next? Should we sic Bismarck on him?

Merum · Oct 3, 2006

Wooohoooo! great turns, Perugia!

Can anybody say "AI dogpile on Mongolia?" :mischief:

BLubmuz · Oct 4, 2006

Seems a good and fun TS, Perugia (a bit long in RL time).

So i'm up now

I will edit this after lookin' at the save.

Only a question, now: 1) is it worth give SP to Biz for he DoW on KK?

edit:
2) a) i'll take and keep Gaul? is not optimal, but better than build a settler. b) start a forge and c) train a C. missionary somewhere ASAP, to spread Gaul?
3) in Toledo i'll switch to C. monastery, then C. missionary (for Gaul), then back to a bank? I recommend this, since we have only 1 C. monastery. and SM is approaching
4) i'll send our C. missionary in Tiwanaku, then build a C. monastery ASAP there
5) i'll build another C. monastery in Tokyo after the frigate
war:
6) just approach troops to Vitcos and Ollan', hope will be ours next turn and to sink ships in port (easy, often AIs keep ships in port)
7) raze Vitcos? yes, IMO
8) let's kick HC out of the ring continent, let him in the island and sue for peace for techs? yes, IMO
9) i'll keep all incan cities, but Vitcos???

I'll play and hopefully finish tonight, wait your comments until 08.00PM GMT, so Doom Train be ready

Perugia · Oct 4, 2006

Thanks everyone. The RL problem was that our electric hob went and short circuited itself taking out all our breakers bringing my PC down. Luckily I had just saved the game. I did not lose my notes either as they were on a laptop.

I agree to raze Vitcos and keep Olly and Vilcabamba. Yes we are strong enough to push onto Vilcabamba and also the city further north (worth keeping). I like the idea of kicking HC off the ring continent and making peace. As these two cities are on the coast we can move on them very rapidly using the victorious units from Olly combined with naval transport from Tiwanaku, & Santiago and Vitcos.

One more monastery on the ring continent at Tiwanaku will do - I really would not bother with one at Tokyo – just build the missionary in Osaka.
Alternatively Gaul can work the lake and any other commerce tiles (windmill perhaps) and set the culture rate to 20% or so for a few turns (this will help with WW as well which is starting but not really hurting).

High culture will also expand the borders in Incaland so wait until most of those cities are out of rebellion (we are not that desperate for coal if we sink HCs navy in port!)

We are ahead of KK he does not even have Replaceable Parts and as Brian said Hatty has eaten his attacking strength and our units will be well placed after the war on HC so I feel it would be better that we attack KK ourselves (as soon as we have added defence in Mali).

I'm not sure how much help Bismarck will actually give us in fighting KK apart from stealing his Egyptian holdings.

I reckon we should consider setting Bismarck onto Hatty being close neighbours the fighting will be more intense and this will allow us to do more pillaging in the area. We could do with a rifle at Niani to allow the knight to join the pillaging archer and samurai in former Egypt.

BLubmuz · Oct 4, 2006

Perugia said:
One more monastery on the ring continent at Tiwanaku will do - I really would not bother with one at Tokyo – just build the missionary in Osaka.
Alternatively Gaul can work the lake and any other commerce tiles (windmill perhaps) and set the culture rate to 20% or so for a few turns (this will help with WW as well which is starting but not really hurting).

Rethinking about my 3) and 5), i'll skip the monastery in Toledo, and build only the one in Tokyo: in this way we don't delay banks in Osaka and Toledo, where their benefits are great.
And then the C. missionary in Tokyo.
If Gaul has 0 culture it don't benefit from a incresed CR (0*anything is always 0).
I agree about borders in incaland and WW

Perugia said:
I'm not sure how much help Bismarck will actually give us in fighting KK apart from stealing his Egyptian holdings.
I reckon we should consider setting Bismarck onto Hatty.

I don't like to give Biz SP, but if we bribe him to war it MUST be against KK, for 2 reasons:
First is that KK has his impressive stacks almost intact (look at the F9 power graph), then a Biz/KK war could be useful since those stacks will be unable to help Mongolia.
2nd is that Hatty is gone, we don't need to weaken her more ... and don't forget former Egypt cities now mongols.

Perugia · Oct 4, 2006

BLumbuz. Here are my further suggestions

Gaul will have minimum 2 commerce if it works the lake. So if the culture rate for incaland and WW purposes is 20% or more then Gaul will get +1cpt and eventually a border expansion. That may not be enough or we might not want to run culture that high for long - if so then Gaul needs a Missionary. To get that missionary asap it should be built in Osaka. The bank is nice but not as important as coal. I've been switching that bank out of the queue to build military.

Send the missionary we have to Tiwanaku and build monastery there. Then any missionaries we need can be built on the ring continent. We can always ship a missionary back from Tiwanaku to Gaul if needed. Don't forget there is a second coal resource just inside Mongolia and we only need one.

However you cut it I really don't think we need any more Monasteries on the old continent.

I'm fine with getting Bismarck to DoW on KK given the power graphs you mention - thanks for that.

BLubmuz · Oct 4, 2006

@Perugia
OK, sold!
i'll switch a missionary in Osaka

but I have some other question for all:
1) we continue to build military units and nothing else but particularly useful buildings in some city? I think so, but please confirm.
2a) To take full advantage from Biz/KK war we should be ready to DoW on KK: in this case we'll have to wait some 5 or more turns with the risk he gets SP, or just bribe him now? I'm undecided, then i'll wait your comments
2b) perhaps there's another way: just ask Biz to STOP trading with KK (in the end we only need to keep away KK's stacks, and we'll succeed, 'cause OB will be broken) probably this don't cost us a tech and KK will never knows about.
3) we'll continue to use the whip intensively?
4) Catapults: upgrade the remaining ones or just use them for bombardment and suicide attacks? IMO i don't upgrade, a cannon often looses, too.

BLubmuz · Oct 4, 2006

IT - 1694
Moving troops in Incaland
Biz can DoW on KK, but SP is not enough, and "Stop trading" with KK is red ... OK, we'll do it by ourselves
Our grenadier conquered Gaul, switch missionary in Osaka
some pillaging in former Egypt

t01 - 1697
IBT an incan frigate destroyed ours near Vilcabamba
IBT Hatty conquered New Sarai
IBT Biz founded Dortmund SE of Elephantine
Christianity spreaded Tiwanaku, quickly swithed on Monastery
Vitcos razed with almost all HC navy, loosing 1 cat and 1 cannon
destroyed HC Grenadier guarding iron, pillaged
Ollan' is ours, loosing 1 cat and 2 cannons
Our troops approaching Vilcabamba
Sent a Rifle to reinforce Niani, knight there upgraded

t02 - 1700
IBT an incan frigate was destroyed by ours near Vilcabamba
Moving troops to V'bamba
some MM
started theatres in Osaka and Cordoba, WW is a problem

t03 - 1703
IBT Pi-ram captured by Mongols
The explorer can't pillage (i suppose this, and is now confirmed), then i kill it
IBT an incan cat suicide against our cavalry in Ollan'
our cavalry withdraw after a level 4 grenadier, then killed by ours
3 galleons (7 units) landed near v'bamba, now with 4 rifles
started CH in Djenne, maintenance -11
upgraded our last knight
whipped theatre in Cordoba and Aryan

t04 - 1706
Vilcabamba is ours with NO losses, only 3 cats withdraw (this compensate the Samurai killed by a cat in my last TS)
there are CH in both new conquered cities (o. and v.)
loaded 3 galleons with 3 cannons, 3 rifles, 3 cavs, heading Corihua'
another filled is coming from New Japan
I've seen Biz has now SP, he was advanced in the research, then it wasn't sufficient to bribe him
some pillaging in former Egypt
whipped theatre in Barce

I stop here for now, i'll complete tomorrow (is 1 AM here)

BrianS · Oct 4, 2006

Great start to your turnset BLubmuz. I love that Hatty takes a city and KK takes a city. A net wash for the 2, at a significant cost for each.

Sweetacshon · Oct 5, 2006

Hey all, just checking in on holidays, without CiV, so all I can really say is:
Go Team! It's goin well, as I've seen some of the teams take a nosedive on the results graph. Keep it up!

Perugia · Oct 5, 2006

Great stuff so far BLumbuz. Shame about Steam Power, 6 turns back in 1688Biz was willing to DoW for it I should have done it then.

My suggestion is don't upgrade the catapults as this will delay Assembly Line. Use the catapults for city bombardment and leave the cannon for bombardment/suicide. Each catapult will do 75% of the bombard of a cannon but only 50% of the collateral damage. Each assault should get 2 cannon so there is no need to suicide cats. Cannon sometimes win. Build cannon to replace losses.

Sorry about the explorer. They used to be good pillagers in CivIII.

Don't forget to balance the culture% slider up/down as you build happy buildings or as WW bites:
-10% culture = lose hammers to unhappy citizens but increase overall science/gold income
+10% culture = gain hammers but lower science/gold

I think we are agreed to make peace with HC once he is down to the island city and prepare invasion stacks/galleons for Mongolia.

BLubmuz · Oct 5, 2006

reprise:

t05 - 1709
12 units + 3 frigates are sieging Corihua'
whipped theatre in Cuzco, it was starving
Christianity spreaded Gaul
some MM here and there, no news from the rest of the world

t06 - 1712
bombarded c. to 0
started Globe Theatre in Madrid ... i think it's too big, and we'll have more wars, so it's the only way to avoid WW

t07 - 1715
Corihua' is ours - losses: 1 cat and 2 cannons - CH in there.
our scouting cavalry see that Hatty razed New Sarai, so KK is without horses now, but he wish to settle again
i'll wait 1 turn for peace, i wanna that monastery completed in Tiwanaku
i'll make peace only for SM, otherwise i'll destroy HC

t08 - 1718
HC don't want give SM for peace
now i got a stack of 3 rifles + 3 gren
i'll try again next turn, otherwise ...
please note: some cannon is promoted with combat 1 (a mistake IMO) ... useful promotions for siege weapons are collateral damage and CR

t09 - 1721
HC rejects our offer for peace + SM
Vilcas is razed, Incan destroyed ... 4 to go
I traded SP to Hatty for SM + WM + 100g ... Mao and Biz already know it
we got oil, unfortunately not in any city's fat cross
Culture to 0, a bit of unhappiness, but AL due in 4 @80% (-42gpt) 1142 in bank
whipped theatre in Ollan', it was starving

t10 - 1724
IBT Biz adopt Vassalage
massive pillaging in former mongolian lands ... 1202 in bank now ... AL in 3t -25gpt
some MM
mongolian cultural pressure in former Incaland is terrible

t11 - 1727
pillaged everything in sight
some MM
set research to 60% for AL in 2t, so we'll have more money to upgrade (no way to get it in 1t)

I stop here, because i wish to DoW on KK next turn or in 2 turns - no more -
- KK is now behind in tech
- his Egyptian war is not too well
- he got only the cavalries he built before the war
- his power look weakened now (F9)
- we can fight with Infantry, and eventually stop after the conquest of Awdaghost and the destruction of Otar
- Probably he's down on money, there are 2 muskets in Otar

I have no time now, i submit the save in the official page only

Spoiler :

I deleted something useless in the spoiler, it was too long
you're up Doom Train, good luck

edit:
Thanks all, but I preferred to have SM for peace ... anyway 1 problem less and no losses for Vilcas.

Doom Train · Oct 5, 2006

Very good turnset. Good job destroying Incans. I ll post my suggestions after cheking the save tonight...

Perugia · Oct 5, 2006

Brilliant BLumbuz - 3 down 4 to go!

I agree with siezing the opportunity AL will provide to rollback KK's culture pressure. We should start our scientists on railroad with gold at 100% to fund unit upgrades.

No nose dive on the results graph for us! I wonder what went wrong - maybe the AI dogpiles on them or beat them to AL or cities culture flipped.

Please note the following from the maintenance forum

AlanH said:
@All players: Please ensure that you are set up to autosave every turn in case of this kind of event so that you only have to replay the last turn.

Please edit your .ini file accordingly.

There is also a spoiler thread up to when we met all rivals. We qualify to read. Any volunteers?

BLubmuz · Oct 5, 2006

Perugia said:
There is also a spoiler thread up to when we met all rivals. We qualify to read. Any volunteers?

That's what i said in my 379.
I proposed BrianS as a volunteer (better an english mother language than an ignorant stranger like me)

About AlanH's suggestion: my PC don't know the meaning of the word "crash", and i'm the lucky owner of a good UPS.

BrianS · Oct 5, 2006

Excellent turnset Blubmuz. I'm looking forward to seeing the save tonight.

I can right up our spoiler--I'll draft something this weekend.

Perugia · Oct 5, 2006

BLubmuz said:
That's what i said in my 379.
I proposed BrianS as a volunteer (better an english mother language than an ignorant stranger like me) .

My fault entirely. I was confused by #379 and thought it meant something totally different. There are no prizes in it but you do get qudos and 10 "brownie points" for spotting the spoiler first. Anyway we have our volunteer - Thanks Brian

, 1000 brownie points to you, 2000 for good style & humour!

@BLumbuz I'm glad your PC is "uncrashable". Mine is pretty stable too but I had to upgrade the graphics card and memory when I bought Civ4 so my .ini file is aleady "optimised".

Doom Train · Oct 5, 2006

I ve started my turnset and made 1 move to see defences of Awdaghost. As you can see its almost defenceless for our army.

1- I m declearing war to KK. Victory will be ours after Infantries join the party.

2- We can get Coal(+1 H) from Bismark. Should I?

Btw wartime is 10 turns right? (sorry again for playing 17 in my last wartime turnset)

BLubmuz · Oct 5, 2006

Doom Train said:
2- We can get Coal(+1 H) from Bismark. Should I?

Hi DT,
NO please ... we got our own coal, only a road to be built (near Gaul)

About war: i suggest to bring 3 or 4 cavalries South of Otar, they can easily destroy the muskets, and you can attack in the same turn you declare, so KK can't upgrade them.
Once captured, raze it.

Awdaghost is worth keeping, it's in a good position.

To do so you'll need exactly the turn needed for Infantry to come ... i suggest to promote the CR units.

To Team:
Once we got coal hooked, i suggest to start a factory in Osaka, then IW, then Pentagon:
it's expensive, but it gives +2 XP to every unit in every city, making West Point useless.
In my recent games i've never built WP, it doesn't worth its cost ... just compt the units you can build in the turns needed to build it, and only the city with WP benefits.
Let's pray for a GEngineer.

SGOTM 02 - Fifth Element

Prince

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HoF Quattromaster

Prince

HoF Quattromaster

Prince

HoF Quattromaster

HoF Quattromaster

Prince

In the foetal position

Prince

HoF Quattromaster

Warlord

Prince

HoF Quattromaster

Prince

Prince

Warlord

HoF Quattromaster

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