SGOTM 02 - Geezers
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
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juballs2001
The Sultan of Sweat
ya i got it... i thought sam was before me, but i guessed wrong.
i can take it today
i can take it today
juballs2001
The Sultan of Sweat
one question sort of....
we are willing to build 2 island cities near kyoto which for the time being will only minimally increase our -gpt. but once the palace is built in osaka the gpt problems will retunr even with courthouses... i can see what we are doing and it makes sense, because once we start defeating the AI, their cities will be cheaper, but with these 4 cities... its not like we have 4 very productive cities that it we go to war, we can crank out a decent war machine to topple the AI on the mainland.
just my 2 cents
we are willing to build 2 island cities near kyoto which for the time being will only minimally increase our -gpt. but once the palace is built in osaka the gpt problems will retunr even with courthouses... i can see what we are doing and it makes sense, because once we start defeating the AI, their cities will be cheaper, but with these 4 cities... its not like we have 4 very productive cities that it we go to war, we can crank out a decent war machine to topple the AI on the mainland.
just my 2 cents
I don't really understand what the question is, or what should be the alternative.
The three islands cities will be able to pay for themselves with courthouses after the palace moved. At size 4 they will produce 9 gpt working 4 coastal tiles and have something like 6-8 maintenance with courthouses. So they are neutral or of benefit to our empire.
Before the palace move they are of immediate benefit, because they generate a trade route
If we don't get the palace to Osaka any city in this region will not be able to pay for itself for a long time. They need to build a courthouse first then they will need cottages to generate enough gold (outside of Osaka I don't see high commerce resources).
So I just don't see any alternative. If we go out to settle or capture near Osaka right away, we will not be able to keep more than 1-2 cities at one time and then have to develop them for a long time. While we do this our research is near zero.
One other small remark. You talk about mainland, like this would be the only landmass.
We only know Spain. I see no indication to assume that there are more AI civs on the island of Osaka.
The three islands cities will be able to pay for themselves with courthouses after the palace moved. At size 4 they will produce 9 gpt working 4 coastal tiles and have something like 6-8 maintenance with courthouses. So they are neutral or of benefit to our empire.
Before the palace move they are of immediate benefit, because they generate a trade route
If we don't get the palace to Osaka any city in this region will not be able to pay for itself for a long time. They need to build a courthouse first then they will need cottages to generate enough gold (outside of Osaka I don't see high commerce resources).
So I just don't see any alternative. If we go out to settle or capture near Osaka right away, we will not be able to keep more than 1-2 cities at one time and then have to develop them for a long time. While we do this our research is near zero.
One other small remark. You talk about mainland, like this would be the only landmass.
We only know Spain. I see no indication to assume that there are more AI civs on the island of Osaka.
I would think that we want to build those island cities as soon as possible, and once we get the palace over to Osaka, perhaps build one or two production cities to enhance our warfaring abilities?
btw, the map type is fractal, yes? so it is possible that there are civilizations past Spain...although I would expect most of them to be on other land masses.
btw, the map type is fractal, yes? so it is possible that there are civilizations past Spain...although I would expect most of them to be on other land masses.
juballs2001
The Sultan of Sweat
klarius said:
makes sense... i speak of mainland because it is our mainland. the only large land mass we know of right now
juballs2001
The Sultan of Sweat
a little update.
im on turn 7 its 1690BC
and....
basically i have just been killing barbs, but the mine on iron is complete.
now should we
1) slow research and just upgrade all our warriors to axemen
or
2) build new axemen at a rate of 13 turns per 1. when osaka grows i think that changes from 13 to about 7 or 8
any thoughts...
i would go with option 1... slowing research i believe is the smarter move.
because it gives us the option to build more workers, 1 or 2. and then once 2 more cities are founded, we can start the palace knowing that we have a legitimate army able to defend from barbs.
awaiting your thoughts until i complete the remainder of my turnset
im on turn 7 its 1690BC
and....
basically i have just been killing barbs, but the mine on iron is complete.
now should we
1) slow research and just upgrade all our warriors to axemen
or
2) build new axemen at a rate of 13 turns per 1. when osaka grows i think that changes from 13 to about 7 or 8
any thoughts...
i would go with option 1... slowing research i believe is the smarter move.
because it gives us the option to build more workers, 1 or 2. and then once 2 more cities are founded, we can start the palace knowing that we have a legitimate army able to defend from barbs.
awaiting your thoughts until i complete the remainder of my turnset
I'm absolutely against upgrading warriors. That's extremely expensive and will shut down research for a long time.
We are already far behind in research and we really need CoL in our situation.
The question is also what you want to do with the axes. I don't see the benefit in attacking Spain to raze 1 or 2 villages and I doubt you could do anything else. Axes are not good enough against cities with culture. For that one should have city raider III swords.
We are already far behind in research and we really need CoL in our situation.
The question is also what you want to do with the axes. I don't see the benefit in attacking Spain to raze 1 or 2 villages and I doubt you could do anything else. Axes are not good enough against cities with culture. For that one should have city raider III swords.
juballs2001
The Sultan of Sweat
.. but here is my concern
we are running at anywhere from 20-60% science right now... and the gpt deficit is growing with every warrior we build.
i think that by the time we build the four cities, get code of laws, and continue building axes/swords we will be running -gpt at o% science.
and with upgrading the current warriors who can all get to 10/17 exp. they have the experience needed to kill barb axes and archers until we build the palace.
i believe that upgrading is the much better way to go
we are running at anywhere from 20-60% science right now... and the gpt deficit is growing with every warrior we build.
i think that by the time we build the four cities, get code of laws, and continue building axes/swords we will be running -gpt at o% science.
and with upgrading the current warriors who can all get to 10/17 exp. they have the experience needed to kill barb axes and archers until we build the palace.
i believe that upgrading is the much better way to go
juballs2001
The Sultan of Sweat
alright w/e we will do it your way
juballs2001
The Sultan of Sweat
my turnset
0-1900
-change plains work to forest for growth
IBT
-barb attacks and we are victorious
1-1870
-move warriors/heal warriors
turns 2-4
1840-1780
- mm'ing
5-1750
-brabs enter area, and attack but we win again
6-1720
-warriors heal
7-1690
-iron mine is complete
8-1660
- ....nothing much
9-1630
-barbs attack, we win
10-1600
-switch production to axeman. currently have 7 warriors, i believe 4/7 are max. upgraded experience wise
11-1570
-kill more barbs
IBT- Sailing in, Mysticism in 6
12-1540
-4 tiles have been completed and osaka is size 4.
we make a axe every 6 turns i believe, but working thses 4 tiles leaves osaka stagnant.
i decided to stop here
0-1900
-change plains work to forest for growth
IBT
-barb attacks and we are victorious
1-1870
-move warriors/heal warriors
turns 2-4
1840-1780
- mm'ing
5-1750
-brabs enter area, and attack but we win again
6-1720
-warriors heal
7-1690
-iron mine is complete
8-1660
- ....nothing much
9-1630
-barbs attack, we win
10-1600
-switch production to axeman. currently have 7 warriors, i believe 4/7 are max. upgraded experience wise
11-1570
-kill more barbs
IBT- Sailing in, Mysticism in 6
12-1540
-4 tiles have been completed and osaka is size 4.
we make a axe every 6 turns i believe, but working thses 4 tiles leaves osaka stagnant.
i decided to stop here
juballs2001
The Sultan of Sweat
roster:
klarius - on deck
trippstowe
markh
juballs2001- just played
Sam Yeager - UP
Thrallia (on vacation)
klarius - on deck
trippstowe
markh
juballs2001- just played
Sam Yeager - UP
Thrallia (on vacation)
Well, looks good so far (though I would have some minor complaints, but don't want to look to picky 
).
Kyoto should switch to galley now and rush next turn for 2 pop. The settler will then complete the turn after that. Don't rush right away for 3 pop.
We should build the second settler at size 4 right away. This should fit nicely then to reach size 6 again when writing comes in, so we can rush a library. Going down to pop 3 now would delay the library.
Mysticism should be researched at higher slider setting. It's known by Spain, so we get a small bonus. But this is such a low percentage that we need about 30 beakers per turn to get a bonus beaker. So put the slider to 100% now.
I would build a couple of swords in Osaka after the axe (we can do 2 swords in 11 turns, so it's not really one turn more per sword). Kill barbs with them to get experience. Don't use up all promotions. If barb axes should come thick we need shock promotion.
If we can do a small military adventure we rather want city raider or cover, so we should stay flexible.
The next action of the worker should be a road to the river, which connects to Coast and by that to Spain. After that I would road and maybe pre-chop forests.
).Kyoto should switch to galley now and rush next turn for 2 pop. The settler will then complete the turn after that. Don't rush right away for 3 pop.
We should build the second settler at size 4 right away. This should fit nicely then to reach size 6 again when writing comes in, so we can rush a library. Going down to pop 3 now would delay the library.
Mysticism should be researched at higher slider setting. It's known by Spain, so we get a small bonus. But this is such a low percentage that we need about 30 beakers per turn to get a bonus beaker. So put the slider to 100% now.
I would build a couple of swords in Osaka after the axe (we can do 2 swords in 11 turns, so it's not really one turn more per sword). Kill barbs with them to get experience. Don't use up all promotions. If barb axes should come thick we need shock promotion.
If we can do a small military adventure we rather want city raider or cover, so we should stay flexible.
The next action of the worker should be a road to the river, which connects to Coast and by that to Spain. After that I would road and maybe pre-chop forests.
trippstowe
Warlord
markh said:Do not know whether we will be able to build wonders. The palace already will keep Osaka busy for a while even with chopping. It is 160 hammers.
You do not need masonry for the palace, but 4 cities. Masonry was necessary in Civ3.
since we are building a palace in osaka, shouldnt we reconsdier building towns on the small islands above kyoto?
We cannot build the palace, before we have two more towns and we cannot afford two towns near Osaka, before we build the palace. BTW the palace is 240h on epic. That's still quite a few turns even if we put in 3 forests.
We could think of building one town near Kyoto and one (very) near Osaka. But defending both Osaka towns will be difficult, if we first build a settler instead of military.
We could think of building one town near Kyoto and one (very) near Osaka. But defending both Osaka towns will be difficult, if we first build a settler instead of military.
trippstowe
Warlord
klarius said:
yeah what a conundrum. are there many barbs coming from the north? when i played i think maybe one came from that area. maybe izzy has most of that land fog busted. so maybe a town to the NE would not have to have super defences. we would only have to worry about barbs from the S on both towns. if i remember correctly there is a hill to the NE that will get both the copper and the stone in the range, not much for money though.
btw, if izzy is up there on a pennisula, then we have done a good job blocking barbs for her.
juballs2001
The Sultan of Sweat
none from the north. all from the west, south and eastmarkh said:
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
I notice Izzy's established a new city down by the sugar. Presumably we'll wait until later to deal with that?
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