SGOTM 02 - Geezers

Oh well, the dreaded triple post ;).

I just looked again into the game. Izzy would talk now.
I would make a cease fire (not peace currently) and then gift her Barcelona. The barbs should then take it and we can retake it, winning another 2 turns of lower maintenance.
And who knows we may get friends with Izzy after all. :crazyeye:
But anyways we can restart hostilities any time after a cease fire.
Though if we could get open borders first for some time, to get better intelligence that would also be nice.
 
Izzy has 3 cities right now...I'm somewhat worried that she'll get that copper hooked up, so I think before we peace her or give her a cease fire, we should at least make sure that she loses those jungle cities, to prevent her from having a shot at that metal. If she gets it, then it will be much harder to take her down in the future.

I actually see no reason to ever peace her again...I don't think we'll get much war weariness for it, and our swordsman is essentially untouchable to Izzy, so he could just scout around her territory, plundering stuff until we get enough of them built to take her down.

Also, I noticed something we could MM in Osaka...we could work the plains NE of Osaka for 1 turn instead of the Oasis, and then move back to the Oasis, and we won't lose any pop, but we'll finish the palace one turn sooner.

After the Palace is finished, we should then build an axeman, and at least 2 swordsmen to continue the war with Izzy.

As for Barcelona, as long as the barbs aren't gonna raze it, I see no problem with letting them keep it a few turns to spare us the maintenance.

And yes, your RNG was horrible...mine was excellent, I only lost one unit my entire turnset, and that was a fortified warrior on a hill versus a barb archer.
 
Palace and courthouses started sounds good indeed. We are about to get up and running.:clap:

I also lost a nicely promoted warrior with a winning chance of 90%. This makes me mad all the time. Well I saw our warrior slipping before he got killed.

Regarding Barcelona we may gift it back to Izzy and let the barbs take it. At the moment I see no big benefit being at war with Izzy. Of course it is good to keep Barcelona small and without significant defense to make it easier to take it later on. Does she have any techs to offer ? If she has I would just let the barbs take Barcelona and take tech(s). I think only one side can offer something in this kind of deal. If we offer Barcelona we cannot get anything from her except ceasing fire. If she is willing to give something to us I would not want to give her something just for ceasing fire. Then give Barcelona to the barbs and take whatever she offers. I am quite sure that she will offer something to us as she lost a city to us.

I think trippstowe is up, but we have not heard anything from him lately as he is moving what would put me up. If I do not hear a "got it" from him until tomorrow I will take it.
 
No tech to get w/o tech trading (alphabet). But I doubt she would offer much.
But anyways, don't give the city in a peace treaty. Just make cease fire and then gift it afterwards.
This will get us a positive attitude modifier for the gift. We didn't declare on her, so she might even like us after that.
We don't have the units to do anything to her in the next 20-30 turns. We have to build up our new capital and the barb axes are keeping us busy.

We can also stay at war and just defend. This has the advantage that we know we are at war and don't have to always watch out for a backstab :crazyeye:.
I'm absolutely sure that Izzy has enough units to overrun Barcelona at any time. She just applies the typical AI masterful tactics, keeping most at home.
 
Assuming we are going to gift Barcelona back I would like to see the swordman scout Izzy's other city to see what's there.

Since Izzy only had 3 cities is it a safe assumption that there's no land beyond her capital? If so then it may be worth exploring the the south and south west to see what's down there when we get some spare military.
 
I'm not so sure about that. I think we should stay at war, if for no other reason than to scout her territory with our swordsman, and to prevent her from hooking up that copper.

as for how many units she has...I killed 6 archers, 1 scout, and captured a settler, klarius killed at least 2 archers...I'm not sure she has much more than 1-2 archers in each city except her capitol, where I doubt she has more than 4 units. Definitely though, to be sure of this, I think we should scout her land before negotiating with her, if for no other reason than to be sure there is no iron in her borders that she currently doesn't know about(since I doubt she has IW yet)
 
I know that there's lot of techs that we could do with, Currency springs to mind amongst others, but I think that we need to start thinking about heading to Optics. The reason is that I am sure that the rest of the civs are on at least two, probably three or more, other islands.

So we need to find them. This will help tech research by reducing the cost as I am sure that we are lagging. Normally I would say that it would help tech trading but I suspect that we may not have anything they need. So we may have to buy them which means money.

To get money we need to build up our economy. This is unlikely to be easy whilst Izzy is hanging around and the barbs keep attacking us. So we need to get rid of Izzy and then employ fog busters whilst we settle the land.

Stating the problem is the easy part. Any thoughts on how we can accomplish this; bearing in mind that we need to do it sooner rather than later if we want to be in with a shout for laurels?

NB. I know that we will also need the military to conquer the rest but I think we need the infrastructure in place first.

EDIT: WE also need to understand just which techs we must have and which can be acquired/researched at a later date.
 
i will be gone the next two days... doubt my turn will come up... just giving you all a heads up
 
exactly my thoughts, sam, which is why I think we should not end the war with Izzy yet. We need to finish her off quickly and easily, which means we need to be sure she does not have iron, and doesn't connect the copper.

The final call will be up to markh or trippstowe, since it will be one of them playing...but I really doubt Izzy will give us open borders after peace, so if we want to recon her area, we need to stay at war and use our swordsman.

Once the palace is built, maintenance for her cities will be much lower, and we can easily produce enough swordsmen to destroy her.
 
Here it is :

Turn 0 : move units out of Barcelona

IBT : barbs take Barcelona
a barb axeman appears SE of Osaka
borders of Osaka expand

Turn 1 535BC : workers on forrest to chop

IBT : agriculture comes in -> pottery

Turn 2 520BC : zzz

IBT : Isabella wants a peace treaty. Not yet my dear.
New barbs from W, SW and S

Turn 3 505BC : kill one barb axeman

IBT : a barb warrior suicides on our worker covering warrior
a new barb archer from SE

Turn 4 490BC : forrest is chopped, palace now in 4

IBT : nothing

Turn 5 475BC : kill a barb axeman and archer

IBT : a barb archer loses to a warrior
a new barb warrior from E and S
Pottery comes in -> animal husbandry

Turn 6 460BC : zzz

IBT : a new barb axeman from S

Turn 7 445BC : retake Barcelona
rush courthouse in Kyoto

IBT : Kyoto : courthouse -> workboat
Osaka : palace -> axeman
Barcelona : Jewish Temple

Turn 8 430BC : warrior kills barb warrior
kill a barb axeman

IBT : Isabella approaches with an axe, 2 chariots and an archer
I make peace with her, ceasing fire she does not accept

Turn 9 415BC : warrior kills barb warrior
finally I can rush a courthouse in Tokyo
Edo needs to grow some more
Hm, no new barbs. What's up with these guys ?

IBT : courthouse in Tokyo ->> continues on workboat

Turn 10 400BC : zzz

The second gems mine is connected in 2 and then animal husbandry comes in, so the workers can immediately connect the sheep.
After the axe is comleted in Osaka I would consider building a granary or settler. We can start to slowly expand now.
 
Looks good :goodjob:

A few observations:
We don't need 2 more work boats for quite some time (optics and expansion of Edo).
Kyoto could build a worker instead for the Tokyo cow (at no scientists).
After that it can apply 2 scientists again and still grow faster than happiness is available.
I would rather build a granary in Osaka even before completing the next Axe. Osaka really needs to grow to work all good tiles.
In Tokyo I would build granary -> library after the work boat completes.
In Barcelona, I now would probably build a worker. There is so much jungle to hack. :cry:

Science is tricky :crazyeye:. We want it all :).

Mathematics, so we can still chop some further away forests at a good yield and opening up other important techs.
Alphabet so we can trade techs in the next peace treaty with Izzy (I don't doubt that she will attack again at some time).
Metal casting to build forges and on our way to Optics and Samurai.
I would start with the relative cheap mathematics and look then further.

Seeing that Izzy has as well copper as horses (from the stack near Barcelona), we will not get Madrid w/o a healthy number of catapults.
But that means we need masonry, so getting CS with a prophet is closed out. But I anyway don't see how we should get a prophet anytime soon.

The one thing I don't think we need currently is compass. Harbors are of no real value to us currently and opening optics is still far off.
 
The workboats should be changed. I agree.

As there are no barbs at sight at the moment we could switch now to a granary and if too many barbs appear switch back to the axe. One more bad round of RNG and it could get a little nasty.

On research I would tend to go for alphabet first.
 
What is the reason for alphabet first ?
It doesn't give us an immediate benefit as Izzy will not trade (everything is monopoly tech).
Unless we want to go for Drama to solve any happiness problems, I think alphabet is early enough when the next war with Izzy starts.
Math or metal casting give immediate benefits.
 
That is the dilemma with CIV. It is difficult to decide which tech you need first.:)

My thinking was that I would not be surprised to meet other AIs soon, so alphabet would let us trade, but after sleeping over it I guess it makes not too much sense as we have nothing to trade for them anyway, so alphabet can probably wait.
 
I would suggest mathematics and then masonry, then go for construction. we need to be in a position to take on Izzy relatively quickly, and since it appears she has metal now, we need to find out where it is, and cut it off as soon as possible...unfortunately, it also means we'll need cats to be able to take her on now.
 
Roster:
klarius
trippstowe
markh - just played
juballs2001 - UP
Sam Yeager - on deck
Thrallia
 
markh said:
That is the dilemma with CIV. It is difficult to decide which tech you need first.:)

My thinking was that I would not be surprised to meet other AIs soon, so alphabet would let us trade, but after sleeping over it I guess it makes not too much sense as we have nothing to trade for them anyway, so alphabet can probably wait.
Click to expand...

alphabet is nont only good for trading techs. it is also good for "sueing" for techs, so it might not be that bad to have sooner than later.
 
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