SGOTM 02 - Geezers

markh said:
I made the same experience with WB. If we declare war on Kublai, Mao will automatically declare on us. Then it seems that the DP between Mao and Bismarck is gone.

IIRC Mao has combustion also, so his navy will be superior to ours, too.

Perhaps I'm starting to get my head around WB after all. :) Kublai and Mao is manageable. I don't recall seeing Mao have any combustion units but you've been playing more recently than me. I'll keep an eye out during my turn.

I'll follow my earlier proposal for my turn i.e. complete assembly line, build up funds for upgrades and scout Hatty and Bismarck. klarius can then review the situation after me.
 
Yes, sounds good. I am not sure about upgrading immediately. This will put us even more back in research. I think we will need to get to combustion asap. We need this for our navy and tanks later on. Maybe we can extort some techs from Kublai in the war. I would say build up some cash and use it on research. Just use it on upgrades if the war does not go too well and we feel we need infantries. I do not expect Kublai to be very strong, so maybe we can still take him down with what we have which is quite a lot.:)
 
markh said:
Yes, sounds good. I am not sure about upgrading immediately. This will put us even more back in research. I think we will need to get to combustion asap. We need this for our navy and tanks later on. Maybe we can extort some techs from Kublai in the war. I would say build up some cash and use it on research. Just use it on upgrades if the war does not go too well and we feel we need infantries.

I was only intending to build up the funds ready for the next player(s). However if we want to continue researching then that's another matter and will affect the amount of money I can raise. We need railroad (I think we already have steam power) before we can research combustion. Railroad is not cheap and even at 100% will take a long while.
 
And we also need physics, first I think.:cry: Now at peace time we have a good amount of gold coming in, so our research capability should not be too bad. Maybe you can stop after assembly line is researched. Then we can see what we can do.
 
markh said:
And we also need physics, first I think.:cry: Now at peace time we have a good amount of gold coming in, so our research capability should not be too bad. Maybe you can stop after assembly line is researched. Then we can see what we can do.

I'm not convinced about the physics but I'll check when I get home. Stopping after two turns is no problem.

EDIT: The info centre here only has Railroad as a prerequisite.
 
Yes, I think you are right. I think physics will be necessary for the techs after assembly line. For railroad it is not relevant.
 
I've played a couple of turns to bring in Assembly Line. Here's the tech screen:

Tech-1817AD.jpg


The time shown for railroad is at 100% which we can't sustain. Time to research at 0% is 20 turns.

Bismarck has Artillery & Rocketry as you can see from the units below :

BerlinForces.jpg


Current save is attached.
 
We could trade now with Mansa. He would give physics (prerequisite of artillery), biology (grow cities) or democracy (emancipation to get rid of the unhappies) plus divine right (no value just to get it out of the way) for assembly line.
He wouldn't do railway currently, but we sure could get it in a few turns either by researching it partially, or by trowing in some cash.
But we really need to upgrade some troops. Don't upgrade old units with worthless promotions (shock, cover). But city raider infantry is a fine thing.

I would probably just do the physics deal and go for artillery.
Or save up money while slowly researching railway and check every turn if he trades.
Mansa still having techs we don't have points to letting him stay alive as long as he trades with us. We might have another trade opportunity with artillery or combustion.
 
I agree on the physics deal with Mansa. He cannot harm us, so anything we can get from him is good. Let him stay alive. Artillery or railroad ? Artillery is nice, but I think we need a better navy to be able to reinforce, so combustion seems a better bet. :dunno: For the next war cannons will still a good job IMO. We have a good number of troops, so we can do a mix of research and upgrading. Build up cash for research or upgrade if necessary.
 
Summary
Rather than give a detailed list of builds I'll just give the key points here.
  • Researched Assembly Line.
  • Traded Assembly Line to Mansa for Physics
  • Researching Artillery. This is due in 12 9 turns @ 0% or 3 turns @ 80%.
  • Marie-Curie (GS) has been born in Kyoto and can help research Biology. Alternatively we can use her and our GP in Madrid for a GA.
  • The bulk of our attack force is on the hill to the south of Cori.
  • Apart from the normal military builds I've set a few cities to build science or gold enhancements.
  • Scouted Bismarck and Hatty. Details below.
  • The majority of the AI have Artillery with the exception of Mansa as shown by the tech screen at the end of my round. Both Hatty & Bismarck have combustion which probably means Kublai & Mao have it as well.

Hatty Cities
Hatty has three cities with standard defence.

Byblos2JPG.jpg


Goth.jpg


Giza.jpg


The other three cities are better defended with Memphis having so many units they can't all be seen. I wonder who Hatty is thinking of invading? Hopefully not us.

Thebes2.jpg


Heliopolis.jpg


Memphis.jpg


Bismarck Cities
Bismarck is similar to Hatty in having some standard cities.

Awdhagost3.jpg


Cologne3.jpg


Dusseldorf.jpg


Stuttgart3.jpg


Munich3.jpg


Dortmund2.jpg


Bismarck's more powerful cities are as shown with Berlin's forces being too numerous to fit on the screen.

Hamburg.jpg


Frankfurt.jpg


Berlin-1.jpg
 
As I exceeded the max number of images in my last post the tech screen from the end of my round is below.

Tech-1825AD.jpg
 
Roster :

klarius - up
markh - on deck
Sam Yeager - just played
Thrallia - skipped (vacation)

trippstowe and juballs on automatic skip until they post to be available again.
 
I got it and will start today.

I intend to finish artillery, then look at the trade and diplomatic situation.
If I see a chance for a war between Germany and Egypt I will put all resources into that.
It might be easier to war with Kublai, but still the combined forces of Kublai and Mao arriving quickly with railroads will make it difficult to make any progress.

I think a golden age is the way to go. At this stage light-bulbing something is much less useful than early in the game.
 
Played. The save.

Summary:
Started a golden age.
Completed research on artillery, traded for biology.
Started war with Hatty and got Bismarck to declare also.
Bismarck and Hatty are now behind us in power.
Hatty surprised by showing tanks and battle ships, still the war is going pretty well.

Turn log:
Turn 0 1825:
Start golden age.
Do a bit diplomacy.
Demand 250g from Kublai and get it.
Demand 600g from Mao and also get it.
Maybe one of them will try to declare on us, if we are nasty.
That would mean only one would declare, because a DP is purely defensive.
Ask Hatty for 300g and get it. Nice girl. We really should look to backstab her soon.
She has lots of useful, non expiring wonders.
Go to Mansa. Demand divine right and 30g and get it.
Bismarck doesn't have enough gold to warrant asking him.
Go to artillery in 2 turns full. Will try for the trade options first, before doing anything warlike.
Mansa and also Hatty don't have artillery.
MM generally towards less specialist. Our cities need food IMO.
Also find a lot of strange builds. Djenne, a not so hot hammer city builds a factory.
The hammer powerhouse Timbuktu builds an university.
Vilcabamba builds a harbor, which probably gives no advantage at all in mercantilism, without even having a granary.
Upgrade a few troops and move a little around.
Renegotiate stone deal with Bismarck for 3gpt more.
Find some sleeping workers (did I find them all), let them build a maybe usable windmill.

Turn 1 1826:
Moving. Trying to find good builds in towns.

Turn 2 1827:
Artillery is in. I swing a deal with Hatty Biology + 130g + WM for arty.
That was the best I could get. Biology should help quite a bit in our Incan holdings.
At home we have few farms :(.
Mansa doesn't trade. Ok, we try the BIG one. War with Hatty. Mansa declares.
Ally Bismarck for 1120g. That will hopefully lead to them kill a lot of their troops.
Note, all defensive pacts of the war civs are down now. The first desclaration voids them.
So currently only DP between Mao and Kublai remaining.
We are going to 0 research on rails. We will still researching a bit with specialists and maybe get it later in a peace treaty.
I will need upgrade money.
Troop transports from the home island are out (destroyers), but I hope Bismarck will keep Hatty's ships down at our islands.



IBT:
Now it gets really interesting. Hatty is showing tank and marine units in Germany, but isn't attacking up to now.

Turn 3 1828:
Just moving troops. I don't know wht Bismarck is thinking. He has still most troops in Berlin, while his nirthern provinces will fall if he doesn't do something.

IBT:
Next interesting developments. Hatty is showing lots of destroyers and even 2 battle ships and 2 destroyers come after our islands.
Mao has completed Apollo.

Turn 4 1829:
Kill a wounded tank with a cav.
Capture Byblos and gift it to Bismarck (should have razed it).
Decided to try for Memphis with our big stack.
Draft and rush in Edo. It doesn't have enough food to support it's population.

Another interesting IBT.
Bismarck razed Alexandria.
Our main stack gets attacked by three egyptian artillery. We lose one infantry.
We lose several fishing nets.

Turn 5 1830:
Bismarcks navy hides in Edo with lots of attackers. I really don't know what he's after.
I kill one retreated artillery and further march towards Memphis.
Hatty is still besieging Düsseldorf.
She could long have taken it with her tank and marine, but she is slowly reducing defense with one cannon.

IBT:
Hatty is destroying more fishing nets.

Turn 6 1831:
Destroy another wounded tank.
Hatty has landed a major force near Stuttgart. But mainly cav, so good hope she loses a lot.
Bismarck isn't anymore in Edo, so he probably is going for Thebes.
Our main stack is next to Memphis. 4 infantry and an artillery should be doable.

IBT:
More fishing nets go away. Hatty has captured Stuttgart.

Turn 7 1832:
Bomb defense in Memphis to 0. There is a tank now. I wait a turn with the attack to have several cannons.
I destroy the egypt invasion near Stuttgart, mainly as troop training and raze Stuttgart. Bismarck is not really amused.

IBT:
Still fishing nets to get destroyed.
An Egypt battleship is now near Madrid.
The tank ftom Memphis decides to go to Germany.

Turn 8 1833:
Capture Memphis at the loss of 3 cannon and 2 infantry.
The city has 2 shrines for a total of 45gpt when it gets out of resistance.
And the immediately useful pentagon.
Reduce the garrison in Tekkeda to 1 infantry at the loss of one cannon and one artillery.
Hope that Mansa will get reasonable and refrain of killing him, though Timbuktu is unhappy.
Build a city on the home island and in Incan land to fill in some holes.
Spy a little on Thebes. Bismarck is indeed besieging it, but seems to have insufficient forces.

Turn 9 1834:
Capture El-Amarna on our island losing an artillery and an infantry.

Turn 10 1835:
Golden age ends. Move troops towards Thebes and Heliopolis.


Hatty would make peace, but we still want her wonder cities Heliopolis and Gizeh.
Thebes isn't that interesting, but we need it's culture to go away.
I didn't research, but used the money to upgrade troops. So we still aren't much nearer to railroads and combustion.
But we are the power leader now. Especially Bismarck dropped nicely in power.
Mao has built Apollo, but with his handfull of cities I don't think it's urgent to stop him.
I didn't dare to transport any troops with Hatty running around with lots of destroyers and battle ships.
So that has to wait for peace.
I anyway think it's too late for building up a decent navy. We just have to live with not being able to control water tiles.
But a rail network (besides the one Bismarck built for us) would really be nice.
 
it looks like its going well, I'm kinda glad I had to take a pass lol Klarius did a much better job than I think I could have.
 
klarius said:
Mao has completed Apollo.

:eek: We'll have to do something about that later on.

As far as the trades and war goes I think Machiavelli would be proud of you klarius. :lol:
 
definitely Machiavellian.

I don't think Mao will be around long enough to finish much for the Apollo Program, the AI tends to build the Apollo Program as soon as it is able, and then doesn't research the techs needed in a timely manner.
 
0) 1835AD : hit enter

IBT : lose an ironclad to a battleship

1) 1836AD : moving troops

IBT : nothing

2) 1837AD : more troops movement

IBT : an Egyptian marine suicides on our stack at Heliopolis

3) 1838AD : city bombardment

IBT : nothing

4) 1839AD : raze Thebes

IBT : another Egyptian infantry suicides on our stack at Heliopolis

5) 1840AD : move troops towards Heliopolis

We now have 44,29% of landmass, 44% is the limit for domination. The pop limits we have not yet reached. Should we take any more cities or simply raze them ? Save is uploaded for everybody to have a view.
 
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