SGOTM 02 - Team CFR
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
IL2T
Prince
Lexad said:
Each front will have two attacking stacks total 6*4=24 + suicide catas
IL2T
Prince
Main question: 2 or 3 front???
It seems, that we have enough forces to open 3 fronts through 5-10 turns
It seems, that we have enough forces to open 3 fronts through 5-10 turns
Why didn't you build any galeons for the eastern front? We have agreed that it is top priority now. We have more then enough units in the west. Start rushing galeons in Madrid and all the other eastern cities and move the troops there. We should land in incaland ASAP.
Yes, we can open 3 fronts soon: China, Germany and Inca. But we need galeons for the Incan front.
Yes, we can open 3 fronts soon: China, Germany and Inca. But we need galeons for the Incan front.
IL2T
Prince
I have postponed a task of building galeons for the East on pair turns.Obormot said:
IL2T
Prince
I'll play tomorrow. Sorry for delay. 
Thebes and Elephantine is too strong nutlets for a tired brain!
Thebes and Elephantine is too strong nutlets for a tired brain!
IL2T
Prince
IL2T
Prince
Unlucky under Elephatine. Egypt should fall on following a turn! 
Warning: Between Thebes, Heliopolis and Memphis are the War elephant (1 turn early stay at 2W1S near Memphis) and crossbowmen (at iron mine)! Without superfluous movements one (this) turn!
Recon in China some turns early:
Nankin: 2 longbowmen (1 with CGI)
Beijng: 4 longbowmen (3 with CGI) + horsearcher
Guandzhoy: 6 longbowmen (4 with CGI) + spearmen + 1 longbowmen
Xian: 3 longbowmen (2 with CGI)
Shanhai: 3 longbowmen (1 with CGI)
EDIT Whether it's necessary to make the detailed description of my session?
Egypt should fall on following a turn! Warning: Between Thebes, Heliopolis and Memphis are the War elephant (1 turn early stay at 2W1S near Memphis) and crossbowmen (at iron mine)! Without superfluous movements one (this) turn!
Recon in China some turns early:
Nankin: 2 longbowmen (1 with CGI)
Beijng: 4 longbowmen (3 with CGI) + horsearcher
Guandzhoy: 6 longbowmen (4 with CGI) + spearmen + 1 longbowmen
Xian: 3 longbowmen (2 with CGI)
Shanhai: 3 longbowmen (1 with CGI)
EDIT Whether it's necessary to make the detailed description of my session?
IL2T
Prince
IMHO 5 turns per player is a good idea! 
World war on 3 fronts...
My session last not less than 7 hours (without load bug and pre-analysis)!!!
World war on 3 fronts... My session last not less than 7 hours (without load bug and pre-analysis)!!!
akots
Poet
Nice turns.
Dynamic is up. Can probably take 5 turns indeed since 10 seems a bit too much for that scale of military operation.
@IL2T: You can include the combat log into a spoiler tag like this:
Dynamic is up. Can probably take 5 turns indeed since 10 seems a bit too much for that scale of military operation.
@IL2T: You can include the combat log into a spoiler tag like this:
Spoiler :
1. I'd have more galeons on Inca front, small desant can be easily massacred
2. Egypt is fine, but haven't we decided to raze cities with low food and prod, like Heliopolis and Alexandria?
As for Inca campaign, I see they have 3 iron sources, all sea-bound. We can destroy one from the start and then make two 1-galleon-squad landings of 2 samurai and cat, which can destroy the mine and then fortify and bombard nearby cities until main forces arrive. Thus we are hedging against all metal-requiing units (knights, maces, xbows, pikes) unless someone sells metal to them - they don't have copper.
Add-on:
3. If all German cities are defended like Cologne, we'd better kill Germany first with its archers and stuff and only then - China, which already on my turn had 2-4 longbows in each city
2. Egypt is fine, but haven't we decided to raze cities with low food and prod, like Heliopolis and Alexandria?
As for Inca campaign, I see they have 3 iron sources, all sea-bound. We can destroy one from the start and then make two 1-galleon-squad landings of 2 samurai and cat, which can destroy the mine and then fortify and bombard nearby cities until main forces arrive. Thus we are hedging against all metal-requiing units (knights, maces, xbows, pikes) unless someone sells metal to them - they don't have copper.
Add-on:
3. If all German cities are defended like Cologne, we'd better kill Germany first with its archers and stuff and only then - China, which already on my turn had 2-4 longbows in each city
IL2T
Prince
In Incan front we have 3 galeons + 1 (must be pop-rushed in Cordoba next turn). For 3-4 turns to front it will be delivered sufficient army, it is necessary to choose for invasion the defensive bonus tiles.Lexad said:
Lexad said:
It seems to me that Egypt our jumping-off place, it is not meaningful to raze cities. Heliopolis and Alexandria quite good cities in my opinion.
What do you think in occasion of FP in Elephantine and capture of good German cities also?
My initial plan: start each front independently!!!Lexad said:
German-China front have 10 galeons now! It is necessary to use galeons at both coasts of Germany and China-Mongolia.
Army being now at Memphis and Thebes healing and together with a reinforcement start China campaign.
Army being now at Heliopolis, Elepthantine and Alexandria start German campaign + 2 galeons (3 catas + 3 samurai) goes to south coast of Germany
Agree with after-Egypt plans. As for Incan, we should not be landing troops in small parties that are easily destructible against an opponent who has xbows and knights. Though I'm sure whoever is in charge of next turn would do it right. Btw, as akots missed his turn, maybe let him finish the round?
I'm going to hospital till next Tuesday (26th) so won't be around till then. Kill 'em!!!
I'm going to hospital till next Tuesday (26th) so won't be around till then. Kill 'em!!!
IL2T
Prince
Total armys which we have now:
Incan:
2 galeons near Incan coast 3 samurais + 3 catapults
1 galeon in Madrid (+1 planned in Cordoba)
5 catas + 3 samurai at east coast
China: (Thebes + Memphis)
4 galeons
10 samurais (expirienced!) + 4 catas + reinforcement (2 samurais + 4 catas in 2-3 turns; use ship chain)!
Germany: (Heliopolis + Elephantine + Alexandria)
4 galeons
3 + 4 + 2 + 3 = 12 samurais
3 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 8 catas
West coast:
2 galeons
5 samurais
5 catas
2 longbows
Incan:
2 galeons near Incan coast 3 samurais + 3 catapults
1 galeon in Madrid (+1 planned in Cordoba)
5 catas + 3 samurai at east coast
China: (Thebes + Memphis)
4 galeons
10 samurais (expirienced!) + 4 catas + reinforcement (2 samurais + 4 catas in 2-3 turns; use ship chain)!
Germany: (Heliopolis + Elephantine + Alexandria)
4 galeons
3 + 4 + 2 + 3 = 12 samurais
3 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 8 catas
West coast:
2 galeons
5 samurais
5 catas
2 longbows
IL2T
Prince
Akots What you think about this?Lexad said:
IL2T
Prince
Small notes:
1. Germany have one town at island near Mongolia.
2. Promoted samurai have high chance (>80%) aganist CGI longbows after reduce city defence.
1. Germany have one town at island near Mongolia.
2. Promoted samurai have high chance (>80%) aganist CGI longbows after reduce city defence.
akots
Poet
IL2T said:Akots What you think about this?
Well, I'll have enough fun in my turns, so Dynamic will play next. Actually, I have missed only two turnsets of mine and if I will play 10 turns (at least 5 hours or so) that would be able to compensate for this loss.
I also sincerely hope that CB will resume playing as well as Ptitsa if they both have time.
I've just finally finished reading everything finally and it is not good when there is misunderstanding between the team mates and some people quit playing. It should not have happened and hopefully can be corrected.
IL2T
Prince
Parting word:
ASAP use potential of it (0) turn!
On it turn we can declare war Incas and Chineses (landing in forest for bombardment of Beidjing for example), on next turn Germans.
Warning:
On the Egyptian territory walked Incan soldiers, now we can see Mongolian keshik near Hun.
IMHO It's necessary to build continuous front and hold it. And have minimal defence forces!
And last
Don't forget about economy! (at me it was impossible to do it
)
ASAP use potential of it (0) turn!
On it turn we can declare war Incas and Chineses (landing in forest for bombardment of Beidjing for example), on next turn Germans.
Warning:
On the Egyptian territory walked Incan soldiers, now we can see Mongolian keshik near Hun.
IMHO It's necessary to build continuous front and hold it. And have minimal defence forces!
And last
Don't forget about economy! (at me it was impossible to do it
)Nice progress. I agree with IL2T about keeping all the cities, our economy can afford that and we get luxuries that will help with poprushing and war weariness. We have zero gold surplus now, but we have 1000 gold in the treasury and we'll be getting huge income from capturing cities, so we can actually afford many more cities. They should be producing nothing but units. And don't build longbows, if we need to defend a city for a while, we can do it with samurais, and once the danger is gone send them to the front. Courts and the FP won't pay off, since we'll win in about 30 turns.
Also I think we should start poprushing units and ships massively in all cities in about 10-15 turns from now for the final push. We won't need the population anymore, it is fine if all our cities will be size 1 when we win.
I think we can start the war on the incan front with the units we have, just land on a hill and promote one of the samurais against knights and another against crossbows.
The logistics is the most important part of the game now, I think we need to have galeons on both sides of the continent, this way we can atatck 90% of the cities from the coast. Maybe we should build some in the egyptian cities on the inner coast. We should also arrange them in chains now that we are attacking AI that are far away from home. But I am sure Dynamic can handle all that stuff better then me.
Also I think we should start poprushing units and ships massively in all cities in about 10-15 turns from now for the final push. We won't need the population anymore, it is fine if all our cities will be size 1 when we win.
I think we can start the war on the incan front with the units we have, just land on a hill and promote one of the samurais against knights and another against crossbows.
The logistics is the most important part of the game now, I think we need to have galeons on both sides of the continent, this way we can atatck 90% of the cities from the coast. Maybe we should build some in the egyptian cities on the inner coast. We should also arrange them in chains now that we are attacking AI that are far away from home. But I am sure Dynamic can handle all that stuff better then me.
I wrote a first spoiler for our team. I'll post it in the spoiler thread if it is fine with everybody:
Pre-game plan.
To kill all the bad guys quickly we need to tech up to samurais (definitely) and astronomy (very likely), and to set up a nice production base. We decided to only discover techs that are absolutely necessary and hope to get others in trades. Also to shorten the path even further we decided to build the Oracle wonder and lightbulb as many techs as possible with GPs. All this means that we won't need that much research and can concentrate on expanding.
We have fog-gazed land to the north of Kyoto and we initially wanted to expand there, building 2 cores and the Forbidden Palace (in this case CoL would have been the Oracle tech for quick courthouses), but once we learnt that the land there is just 2 tiny islands, we abandonned that idea and decided to move our main palace to the big continent and take more expensive MC for free instead.
The key techs that can be lightbulbed with GSs are Compass, Optics and Astronomy. This requires that we don't have access to paper and philosphy. So prerequisites theology, CS and meditation remained forbidden knowledge in the Japanese Empire for centuries. To generate those scientists we planned to build the Great Library, but once we learnt that we have no marble and Isabella is our only neighbour, we decided to ignore the Alphabet->Literature branch and have several cities with libraries start accumulating GPPs early enough instead.
Opening turns.
We have wandered with our settler a bit and settled in the awesome spot to the east (I guess everybody settled there). Once we saw the beatifull start we even considered the infamous CS-slingshot, but after some thought we agreed that our initial plan was still better. We decided to gamble on founding hinduism this time. Normally going for an early religion is not worth the risk, but in this case the reward was much higher then usual: the border expansion (religion is always founded in the most recently settled city). It will allow us to work all the good tiles in the fat cross of Osaka and it will make defense against raging barbs easier. Our tests showed that we have about 60% chance, which is reasonable considering how much we gain in case of success and how little we loose in case of a failure. And we were lucky enough to get it. Another great boost was popping mining from a hut which allowed us to improve the gems sooner. We made another test that showed that with such settings barbs start spawning on turn 50. This meant that we still had time for a worker as the first build. Worker improved the gems, gold and sheep while Osaka produced 8 warriors for the defense against barbs that were fortified on the surrounding hills and forests. We have concetrated on worker techs and skipped archery: warriors are good enough untill axemen appear. Meanwhile Kyoto whipped a library and started generating GSs.
Early expansion.
4 cities are necessary to move the palace, so as soon as all the really good tiles in Osaka were occupied (sheep, 2 gems and gold), we started building settlers. Once we found out that we have iron on one of the hills, we let Osaka grow to size 5 to also work the iron mine. Worker chopped forests to speed the things up. We did not settle the 3rd city immidiately though, because we were not very confident that we'll be able to defend it. Faster science, however, made up for the lost production, since we learnt math earlier which allowed better chopping. As soon as the second settler was complete we settled both cities at once (910BC). At that time the barbs were already under control. We didn't go for bronze, since we knew that we had iron already. Instead we settled at the closest most productive spots: to the SE near the horses and sheep, and to the SW, near sheep and wheat. Everything up north was occupied by Spain and the great copper/fish/game city in the south was built by the barbs.
The early wars.
After settling those 2 cities we had enough production capacity to construct the big projects we planned while also pumping out swords to kill Isabella (who, of course, was guilty of murdering Tokugawa'a brother). Osaka built the Oracle (880BC), then Palace (675BC). New cities produced barracks and swords. Edo has also built a library and became another GS-generator. The workers chopped most of the trees in our cultural borders to boost production. First we attacked the barb city in the south to promote our swords and captured it in 430BC. In 310BC we declared war on Spain and in 65AD they were gone. They didn't even connect copper near Madrid by that time and the war took only about 15 swords.
Research.
After researching the basic techs we decided to beeline to optics ignoring everything else completely. Alphabet was not needed because we only had one neighbour, CoL was not needed because we only had one distant city, and we didn't need any advanced military techs since we could kill Spain easily with swords. So we started a long and slow run on the very expensive machinery while Kyoto generated two GSs to lightbulb Compass and Optics, which was done in 130BC. After that we stopped research temporarily, to see what the AI civs have to offer before choosing the next research goal.
The Age of Discovery.
As soon as optics came in we poprushed caravells, one in Kyoto and one on the mainland. They quickly explored the shape of the other continent, meeting the last rival in 80AD. Unfortunately the AI still lack alphabet, so we need to rsearch it ourselves now to see what techs we can get in trades.
Edited for clarity and to correct some dates.
Pre-game plan.
To kill all the bad guys quickly we need to tech up to samurais (definitely) and astronomy (very likely), and to set up a nice production base. We decided to only discover techs that are absolutely necessary and hope to get others in trades. Also to shorten the path even further we decided to build the Oracle wonder and lightbulb as many techs as possible with GPs. All this means that we won't need that much research and can concentrate on expanding.
We have fog-gazed land to the north of Kyoto and we initially wanted to expand there, building 2 cores and the Forbidden Palace (in this case CoL would have been the Oracle tech for quick courthouses), but once we learnt that the land there is just 2 tiny islands, we abandonned that idea and decided to move our main palace to the big continent and take more expensive MC for free instead.
The key techs that can be lightbulbed with GSs are Compass, Optics and Astronomy. This requires that we don't have access to paper and philosphy. So prerequisites theology, CS and meditation remained forbidden knowledge in the Japanese Empire for centuries. To generate those scientists we planned to build the Great Library, but once we learnt that we have no marble and Isabella is our only neighbour, we decided to ignore the Alphabet->Literature branch and have several cities with libraries start accumulating GPPs early enough instead.
Opening turns.
We have wandered with our settler a bit and settled in the awesome spot to the east (I guess everybody settled there). Once we saw the beatifull start we even considered the infamous CS-slingshot, but after some thought we agreed that our initial plan was still better.
We decided to gamble on founding hinduism this time. Normally going for an early religion is not worth the risk, but in this case the reward was much higher then usual: the border expansion (religion is always founded in the most recently settled city). It will allow us to work all the good tiles in the fat cross of Osaka and it will make defense against raging barbs easier. Our tests showed that we have about 60% chance, which is reasonable considering how much we gain in case of success and how little we loose in case of a failure. And we were lucky enough to get it. Another great boost was popping mining from a hut which allowed us to improve the gems sooner. We made another test that showed that with such settings barbs start spawning on turn 50. This meant that we still had time for a worker as the first build. Worker improved the gems, gold and sheep while Osaka produced 8 warriors for the defense against barbs that were fortified on the surrounding hills and forests. We have concetrated on worker techs and skipped archery: warriors are good enough untill axemen appear. Meanwhile Kyoto whipped a library and started generating GSs.Early expansion.
4 cities are necessary to move the palace, so as soon as all the really good tiles in Osaka were occupied (sheep, 2 gems and gold), we started building settlers. Once we found out that we have iron on one of the hills, we let Osaka grow to size 5 to also work the iron mine. Worker chopped forests to speed the things up. We did not settle the 3rd city immidiately though, because we were not very confident that we'll be able to defend it. Faster science, however, made up for the lost production, since we learnt math earlier which allowed better chopping. As soon as the second settler was complete we settled both cities at once (910BC). At that time the barbs were already under control. We didn't go for bronze, since we knew that we had iron already. Instead we settled at the closest most productive spots: to the SE near the horses and sheep, and to the SW, near sheep and wheat. Everything up north was occupied by Spain and the great copper/fish/game city in the south was built by the barbs.
The early wars.
After settling those 2 cities we had enough production capacity to construct the big projects we planned while also pumping out swords to kill Isabella (who, of course, was guilty of murdering Tokugawa'a brother
). Osaka built the Oracle (880BC), then Palace (675BC). New cities produced barracks and swords. Edo has also built a library and became another GS-generator. The workers chopped most of the trees in our cultural borders to boost production. First we attacked the barb city in the south to promote our swords and captured it in 430BC. In 310BC we declared war on Spain and in 65AD they were gone. They didn't even connect copper near Madrid by that time and the war took only about 15 swords.Research.
After researching the basic techs we decided to beeline to optics ignoring everything else completely. Alphabet was not needed because we only had one neighbour, CoL was not needed because we only had one distant city, and we didn't need any advanced military techs since we could kill Spain easily with swords. So we started a long and slow run on the very expensive machinery while Kyoto generated two GSs to lightbulb Compass and Optics, which was done in 130BC. After that we stopped research temporarily, to see what the AI civs have to offer before choosing the next research goal.
The Age of Discovery.
As soon as optics came in we poprushed caravells, one in Kyoto and one on the mainland. They quickly explored the shape of the other continent, meeting the last rival in 80AD. Unfortunately the AI still lack alphabet, so we need to rsearch it ourselves now to see what techs we can get in trades.
Edited for clarity and to correct some dates.
