akots
Poet
The plan is to deliver troops from Egypt to inner ring cities by ships.
SGOTM 02 - Team CFR
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Dynamic
But not hurry
I doubt Inca can build many Knights...
I think as Balbes said pass part of Mali lands near German borders and hit to the centre. But, don't forget about Mali's city near Egypt!
After Cease Fire with German our unhappiness will be decreased.
And after China's end also. I thin we need to send forces from Main land to Mongols after China's end even if Inca will not be captured. At this time our German Forces must Fight with Mali and next to Inca's east. But, it's thin edge, end we must be very carefully with it.
End, don't look at Peanut's score graph with horror! I think they researched more left techs like Philosophy and has bigger cities, then we have.
I think as Balbes said pass part of Mali lands near German borders and hit to the centre. But, don't forget about Mali's city near Egypt!
After Cease Fire with German our unhappiness will be decreased.
And after China's end also. I thin we need to send forces from Main land to Mongols after China's end even if Inca will not be captured. At this time our German Forces must Fight with Mali and next to Inca's east. But, it's thin edge, end we must be very carefully with it.
End, don't look at Peanut's score graph with horror! I think they researched more left techs like Philosophy and has bigger cities, then we have.
Dynamic
But not hurry
May be the better if akots will play 2 session by 5 turns with intermediate discussion...
akots
Poet
We have to start wars with Mali and Mongols pretty soon. I think Inca can be handled with some good luck. I'll play later today a few turns to wrap up Germany and China while trying to advance against Inca and preparing some loaded ships for delivering troops to inner ring cities so that we can target several Malinese cities at once from the coast (2 samurai + 1 cat and then reinforcements). There might be not possible to get a chain of galleons there however, it is not very far, so might be OK just delivering troops without a chain.
For chaining, it is good to get reinforcements but the bulk starting force has to arrive at multiple points at once and not at a 3-unit increments. The AI would be confused and we will not see any counterattack.
I've also thought about a revolting to get state religion (as I said earlier, probably Hinduism). That would give some happiness in the core (although tiny, only +1), and with theocracy, will lead to slightly more experienced units from there. Not sure it is worth it but we might be able to save some population for rushing the troops against Mongols.
It will also be a good idea to raze everything just to prevent recapturing cities and increase in war weariness. Might take a few extra medic promotions for that since the troops would be forced to heal in the open. Another IMHO, if we are going to capture the city, we should have enough troops to defend it. Which will not be the case in most cases.
For chaining, it is good to get reinforcements but the bulk starting force has to arrive at multiple points at once and not at a 3-unit increments. The AI would be confused and we will not see any counterattack.
I've also thought about a revolting to get state religion (as I said earlier, probably Hinduism). That would give some happiness in the core (although tiny, only +1), and with theocracy, will lead to slightly more experienced units from there. Not sure it is worth it but we might be able to save some population for rushing the troops against Mongols.
It will also be a good idea to raze everything just to prevent recapturing cities and increase in war weariness. Might take a few extra medic promotions for that since the troops would be forced to heal in the open. Another IMHO, if we are going to capture the city, we should have enough troops to defend it. Which will not be the case in most cases.
Well, another advantage of skipping Mali for a while is that we'll be able to attack Mongolia sooner (because troops from Germany will help to kill the incas). If german troops will start fighting with Mali now, we'll need to bring troops from home to inca. This means that we might conquer the southern countries sooner then the northern ones, which is not that good.
I don't think that revolting will help us, if only to save some upkeep. But that seems a bit cheesy to me. Just kill the unhappy citizens by whipping. We need to whip everything during the next 10 turns or so anyway. Right now we have about 1 unhappy face from WW for each citizen, so whipping 2 citizens is worth +3 happiness.
I don't think that revolting will help us, if only to save some upkeep. But that seems a bit cheesy to me. Just kill the unhappy citizens by whipping. We need to whip everything during the next 10 turns or so anyway. Right now we have about 1 unhappy face from WW for each citizen, so whipping 2 citizens is worth +3 happiness.
Balbes
Instigator
This may be an option. After all, Guderian was a general not an admiral. But do we have enough galleons and enough time to reposition them?akots said:
akots
Poet
Well, Mali and Monglos are essentially even in power and while Mongols might give us a better fight due to aggresive units, Mali can research some tech like Guilds and then build knights because they are financial. We got to start the war even for a few turns to make sure their resources are disconnected and then if met with strong resistance and counterattacks, we can try to get a cease fire with either one of them of may be both. Unfortunately, they don't want to go to war against each other which would have been a nice option for us.
@balbes: These are the questions I don't have an answer for. Probably, there are not enough ships to make it right. The thing is to start the war, unload a few groups of samurai + cats in defendable locations while contiuing on other fronts and healing the injured and then try to build chains on priority directions to deliver these free fully healed troops to these priority directions.
The idea might be to go for poorly defended cities to halt their production and avoid strongholds with numerous defensive units so that these strongholds can be beseiged but will be captured later when enough force can be painlessly accumulated.
In general, as I said earlier, at this stage of war, I would be more comfortable with slightly more samurai compared to what we have on hand, like may be total of 75-80 and if this number can be achieved by the next 10 turns, that would be certainly sufficient to win within the next 20 turns. For now, we have only about 50 samurai, and making 30 more even with heavy whipping seems barely doable while we are having enough cats. These cats just have to be positioned and grouped in the right places.
@balbes: These are the questions I don't have an answer for. Probably, there are not enough ships to make it right. The thing is to start the war, unload a few groups of samurai + cats in defendable locations while contiuing on other fronts and healing the injured and then try to build chains on priority directions to deliver these free fully healed troops to these priority directions.
The idea might be to go for poorly defended cities to halt their production and avoid strongholds with numerous defensive units so that these strongholds can be beseiged but will be captured later when enough force can be painlessly accumulated.
In general, as I said earlier, at this stage of war, I would be more comfortable with slightly more samurai compared to what we have on hand, like may be total of 75-80 and if this number can be achieved by the next 10 turns, that would be certainly sufficient to win within the next 20 turns. For now, we have only about 50 samurai, and making 30 more even with heavy whipping seems barely doable while we are having enough cats. These cats just have to be positioned and grouped in the right places.
akots
Poet
I don't think I can play tonight. We have a strong thunderstorm in Houston and electricity is on and off constantly. And tomorrow I've got a tournament game to play with Vox in the morning, so the earliest I'm able to play is tomorrow evening.
IL2T
Prince
@Akots
Can we shall try to make the graphic plan of war (with timing)?
The last 10 turns we are slow in China and inconsistent in Inca.
Really we need to have 70-80 Samurais for success? Can plan effective logistics of existing armies more important?
Can we shall try to make the graphic plan of war (with timing)?
The last 10 turns we are slow in China and inconsistent in Inca.
Really we need to have 70-80 Samurais for success? Can plan effective logistics of existing armies more important?
Dynamic
But not hurry
We don't need change Religion because in this case we will get 2 turns of anarchy (Religion and Theocracy) and what is result? Several units with 8 points instead of 6? I don't agree with it.
About Logistic: I think we don't need Chain on the West at all. Most of Galleons must be moved into inline sea and south coast of Mali for fast moving units. Part of them could be moved on the East. Most of new units must be transferred to Mongolia and a little to Inca. New units in Egypt cities must take Arian, new units from German cities will be moved as needed (to Inca, Mali or Mongolia via inline sea).
And, we need more Medics.
About Logistic: I think we don't need Chain on the West at all. Most of Galleons must be moved into inline sea and south coast of Mali for fast moving units. Part of them could be moved on the East. Most of new units must be transferred to Mongolia and a little to Inca. New units in Egypt cities must take Arian, new units from German cities will be moved as needed (to Inca, Mali or Mongolia via inline sea).
And, we need more Medics.
IL2T
Prince
Religion and Theocracy don't need for us!Small note.
We do not know where there is one of Incan cities. Presumably to the east from Machu-picchu.
akots
Poet
IL2T said:
Well, planning RNG outcome is difficult and I am not a risky person and don't like to gamble. It might seem slow but I'll be trying to the best of my abilities.
Indeed, last turns have been a bit slow but it only seems like this. Indeed imho it were very much OK and we are making nice progress.
The problem with having many samurai is that it is possible to sacrifice units and get these cities razed more rapidly. We have slightly overbuilt catapults. Samurai often do not need catapults to win and can attack without bombradment with enough chances knocking off the best one or two dfenders at the price of their life. This greatly speeds up the things since there is no need to build huge number of otherwise pretty useless troops and protect them. Also, when starting the war, at least 3-4 AI cities have to be beseiged at different directions at the same time to distract the AI.
Balbes
Instigator
akots: I think you're the perfect player for these important turns. We aren't in a desperate hurry, rather we need to reliably convert the advantage we've built up into a win.
Dynamic
But not hurry
Don't forget if Catapult makes collateral damage Samurais can win with less damage and move to the next target earlier.
Dynamic
But not hurry
And, of course, check Domination limit sometimes...
akots
Poet
Preturn check, moved some unmoved units and loaded some unloaded units on some ships. It looks pretty messy in the west since there are not enough galleons there. The chain is broken and Chinese troops would probably have to deal on their own. They just need some time to heal. As I’ve written previously, we got to declare on Mali soon, so I’ve tried to prepare for moving 3 groups of samurai + cats to their waters. I also cancelled all trades with Mongols and Mali leaving only open borders. Pressing Enter. Nothing special except Mali founded Islam.
[1] Hamburg captured at a price of one samurai. Also killed wondering German galley with horse archer and catapult of board and killed 2 spearmen escorting a settler. We can declare to Mali within the next turn or may be one more turn. Make cease fire with Bismark (Stuttgart has a longbow and a spear), bombard Cuzco, advancing towards Machu Picchu. Timbuktu has 6 units, mostly longbowmen. Western ship chain is fully disconnected and galleons are being moved to build a new chain taking a few of the units from Egypt on the way. Research towards Guilds started and luxury decreased down to 10%. Poprushing is somewhat messed up due to forest chops and it is hard to figure out. Anyhow, took me slightly more than an hour for this first turn. Hopefully, other turns can be played faster.
[2] Nanjing razed, we can declare to Mongols in about 2 turns after most of Chinese veterans heal. More troops moved, assault on Cuzco ready next turn. Cancelled open borders to Kublai. AI does not counterattack.
[3] Cuzco captured at a price of one cat. Bad news is that Tiwanaki had been captured by barbarians and recaptured by Inca so a few samurai are dispatched to deal with that. Machu Picchu had been razed, lost one cat. Time to declare to Kublai and Mali. Killed a few Mongol units (archers and spearmen) and captured two settlers. Declared to Mali and landed 2 stacks near Timbuktu, Niani, Walata and Gao. It looks a little bit foolhardy though, I’m not sure I did the right thing declaring too early. But the situation looks good and we have an opportunity to raze a few cities. We are up to 68 samurai, that ought to do the job.
[4] Niani and northern Chinese city are both razed. Have to stop for a short brake, will shortly resume playing. Finally, whipped here and there a little bit, increased luxury slider up to 40% and it does not look like we can research guilds before the end of the game.
[5] Walata razed. Vitcos razed, Inca have two wondering knights. Poprushed again, war weariness is ridiculous. I guess all luxuries in the world would not be able to overcome that. We might still be forced to go into anarchy to prevent strike.
[6] Shanghai is razed and China is gone. Troops landed near Ning-hsia. Ollanta razed. IBT we lucked out and Inca lost both knights to samurai.
[7] Kumbi is razed. Huamanga razed. It does not seem we need to rush more troops, it might be OK to finish with what we have.
[8] Aryan finally razed. Turfan razed. Gao razed. Games is getting very trivial. Still logistics is a bit of a problem but we seem to be able to deliver enough troops anyhow.
[9] Ning-hsia razed. Vilkas razed. Another Malinese city Awda-something (north of Djenne) razed.
[10] Timbuktu razed. Tiflis razed. Stuttgart razed and Germany eliminated. OK, I have to stop now, I think I played total of 7 hours. There are a few units unmoved but I’m afraid I will just screw it up.
Notes to the next player:
1. Tiwanaku better be captured, this way we can move ships through it.
2. Samarqand is very reasonably defended, it might need a few extra cats.
3. Delivering troops to Karakorum is a major problem. We need at least 4 turns to get into position onto this city. And there might be more troops needed than are actually moving there.
4. Djenne and Tiwanaku should fall within 2-3 turns apparently. These are the last cities for Mali and Inca.
5. It might be worth trying to extend the ship chain to Samarqand or might be not, hard to tell.
6. Sometimes it is worth to attack from the ship if the chances are OK and losses are not so huge. I've destroyed Tiflis and Stuttgart this way losing only one samurai in each case but saving 2 turns (unloading, attack, and loading) for 2 other samurai on a galleon.
And probably there is no point of doing any kind of micromanagement in the mainland or anywhere actually for that be. We can just revolt and win without leaving the anarchy since we have Pyramids and can change many civics at once. It is neither cheesy nor worth the effort, it just does not matter. We should win within maximum of 6-7 turns, may be even less with some luck. It might be worth to bait a few extra Mongolian defenders with a couple of spare workers we have around there.
[1] Hamburg captured at a price of one samurai. Also killed wondering German galley with horse archer and catapult of board and killed 2 spearmen escorting a settler. We can declare to Mali within the next turn or may be one more turn. Make cease fire with Bismark (Stuttgart has a longbow and a spear), bombard Cuzco, advancing towards Machu Picchu. Timbuktu has 6 units, mostly longbowmen. Western ship chain is fully disconnected and galleons are being moved to build a new chain taking a few of the units from Egypt on the way. Research towards Guilds started and luxury decreased down to 10%. Poprushing is somewhat messed up due to forest chops and it is hard to figure out. Anyhow, took me slightly more than an hour for this first turn. Hopefully, other turns can be played faster.
[2] Nanjing razed, we can declare to Mongols in about 2 turns after most of Chinese veterans heal. More troops moved, assault on Cuzco ready next turn. Cancelled open borders to Kublai. AI does not counterattack.
[3] Cuzco captured at a price of one cat. Bad news is that Tiwanaki had been captured by barbarians and recaptured by Inca so a few samurai are dispatched to deal with that. Machu Picchu had been razed, lost one cat. Time to declare to Kublai and Mali. Killed a few Mongol units (archers and spearmen) and captured two settlers. Declared to Mali and landed 2 stacks near Timbuktu, Niani, Walata and Gao. It looks a little bit foolhardy though, I’m not sure I did the right thing declaring too early. But the situation looks good and we have an opportunity to raze a few cities. We are up to 68 samurai, that ought to do the job.
[4] Niani and northern Chinese city are both razed. Have to stop for a short brake, will shortly resume playing. Finally, whipped here and there a little bit, increased luxury slider up to 40% and it does not look like we can research guilds before the end of the game.
[5] Walata razed. Vitcos razed, Inca have two wondering knights. Poprushed again, war weariness is ridiculous. I guess all luxuries in the world would not be able to overcome that. We might still be forced to go into anarchy to prevent strike.
[6] Shanghai is razed and China is gone. Troops landed near Ning-hsia. Ollanta razed. IBT we lucked out and Inca lost both knights to samurai.
[7] Kumbi is razed. Huamanga razed. It does not seem we need to rush more troops, it might be OK to finish with what we have.
[8] Aryan finally razed. Turfan razed. Gao razed. Games is getting very trivial. Still logistics is a bit of a problem but we seem to be able to deliver enough troops anyhow.
[9] Ning-hsia razed. Vilkas razed. Another Malinese city Awda-something (north of Djenne) razed.
[10] Timbuktu razed. Tiflis razed. Stuttgart razed and Germany eliminated. OK, I have to stop now, I think I played total of 7 hours. There are a few units unmoved but I’m afraid I will just screw it up.
Notes to the next player:
1. Tiwanaku better be captured, this way we can move ships through it.
2. Samarqand is very reasonably defended, it might need a few extra cats.
3. Delivering troops to Karakorum is a major problem. We need at least 4 turns to get into position onto this city. And there might be more troops needed than are actually moving there.
4. Djenne and Tiwanaku should fall within 2-3 turns apparently. These are the last cities for Mali and Inca.
5. It might be worth trying to extend the ship chain to Samarqand or might be not, hard to tell.
6. Sometimes it is worth to attack from the ship if the chances are OK and losses are not so huge. I've destroyed Tiflis and Stuttgart this way losing only one samurai in each case but saving 2 turns (unloading, attack, and loading) for 2 other samurai on a galleon.
And probably there is no point of doing any kind of micromanagement in the mainland or anywhere actually for that be. We can just revolt and win without leaving the anarchy since we have Pyramids and can change many civics at once. It is neither cheesy nor worth the effort, it just does not matter. We should win within maximum of 6-7 turns, may be even less with some luck. It might be worth to bait a few extra Mongolian defenders with a couple of spare workers we have around there.
akots
Poet
On a sidenote, samurai are great but we could have shaved off a few turns by researching guilds and building a few knights. 
There were too many Egyptian and German cities captured, most of them were rather useless, the only worthy were those with luxury resources and even those not much since war weariness is too high anyhow.
There were too many Egyptian and German cities captured, most of them were rather useless, the only worthy were those with luxury resources and even those not much since war weariness is too high anyhow.
Dynamic
But not hurry
Don't load save yet, but sounds good.
Balbes
Instigator
I've just taken a look at the save. Great work! We're on schedule or even a little bit ahead. I'm fairly confident we're going to win during Lexad's turns, and I'll do my best to prepare a good position for him to continue from. Of course now I need to carefully study the save so as to avoid any screwups.
