ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
Feel free to post them here - I am sure that we should have our own trash talk mixed in with actual game discussion.Zalson said:
SGOTM 02 - The Real Ms. Beyond
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Kodii
Ka ICE
How did Murky Waters get all the way to 125 posts 
The save will be released later tonight, and I can't wait
The save will be released later tonight, and I can't wait
regoarrarr
King
I will probably play my first part of the turn tomorrow night (about 24 hours from now)
Compromise
Emperor
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Okay, just as a helpful service, let's remind regoarrarr what we're looking for:
1) fresh water plains hill to settle on
2) gold mine
3) wheat/corn next to fresh water
4) two or more flood plains
5) maybe an oasis
6) Copper, Horses and Iron
All within the first ring of tiles around our new city. And we need the strategic resources long before we have the techs to reveal them to us.
Good luck, captain; let us know what you see!
1) fresh water plains hill to settle on
2) gold mine
3) wheat/corn next to fresh water
4) two or more flood plains
5) maybe an oasis
6) Copper, Horses and Iron
All within the first ring of tiles around our new city. And we need the strategic resources long before we have the techs to reveal them to us.
Good luck, captain; let us know what you see!
Kodii
Ka ICE
The save is now out. I've downloaded it just to take a look. Good luck to regoarrarr on the beginning turns. I'm going to bed now, good night!
regoarrarr
King
Cmon folks just because I haven't posted my turns yet, doesn't mean that there can be no commentary!
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php
There are 2 teams that have saves posted. At the 20 turn mark, one had a score of 60ish, and one a score of 50ish
Discuss.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php
There are 2 teams that have saves posted. At the 20 turn mark, one had a score of 60ish, and one a score of 50ish
Discuss.
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
We are now crossing live to the action ...
... and I will pick you up at 8pm, ok? Oh ... what ... SH%^ ... and here we are at the start of SGOAT #2 with the Real Ms Beyond. They are currently tied 4th on 40 points ... a very promising start. I will update you later as we hear more ...
... and I will pick you up at 8pm, ok? Oh ... what ... SH%^ ... and here we are at the start of SGOAT #2 with the Real Ms Beyond. They are currently tied 4th on 40 points ... a very promising start. I will update you later as we hear more ...
Kodii
Ka ICE
At the moment, CDZ is at 102 points. Have they founded their second city? (2800 BC). At the same time, The Pioneer Knights are at 52 at 3430 BC. From techs perhaps? The only other team that has played is Isamu, for... one turn? 
They are still at 40, as are the rest of us.
They are still at 40, as are the rest of us.Compromise
Emperor
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regoarrarr said:
Hmmm. I tend to think that the scores are pretty meaningless until 1000BC at the very earliest. Short term gains don't necessarily lead to long term gains.
I think our strategy of delaying the founding of our second city until we have a) Archery and b) a great site is a good one, even though it might mean a lower initial score.
Has anyone tested the shadow game to see if we can: settle the Settler right away, start research on Pottery, start building a Worker, and still get to Archery before the barbs converge? That's the only strategy I can think of that has a high chance of being more successful than using the Settler as a scout for a few turns.
Gameplay note: For the love of all that is holy, don't pop a hut with that Settler!
regoarrarr
King
Compromise said:
Right. I did that in a shadow game. I got barbs
I wasn't suggesting that we look at the scores to see who is doing best, but just as an idea of what other teams are doing, if that could be interpolated from the raw score data.
I tried to find out how score is calculated but didn't have a whole lot of success
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
Score is a function of (in case you didn't know), population, tech, wonders, and something else that slips my mind. Mouse over your score in the bottom right and it will give you the break down on the bottom left.
So, people with a double score early (ie 80) would have founded their city straight off (guess).
So, people with a double score early (ie 80) would have founded their city straight off (guess).
regoarrarr
King
Yeah I know that. But I was trying to find something more detailed. I mean, in theory, you should be able to say that in turn 20, that one team has a score of 52, and figure out what they have done (how many techs researched, what their pop is, have they founded a 2nd city, etc)
Compromise
Emperor
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I loaded up the shadow game real quick and have the following trivial tidbit: In 3730, Kyoto's borders expand. That will give us another ring of tile visibility there, and can reveal either coast or, if you look carefully, a rival civ's borders!
Also, I moved the settler 1 NW, settled immediately (in 4000BC) and set our research to Pottery. Interestingly, our 23-turn Worker will come out on the same turn that we discover Pottery (though we might get pottery a bit quicker as we get a bit more research from Kyoto when it grows).
I'll keep you posted.
Also, I moved the settler 1 NW, settled immediately (in 4000BC) and set our research to Pottery. Interestingly, our 23-turn Worker will come out on the same turn that we discover Pottery (though we might get pottery a bit quicker as we get a bit more research from Kyoto when it grows).
I'll keep you posted.
Compromise
Emperor
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Shadow Test Report:
Yes, the extra research from Kyoto's growth shaved 1 turn off Pottery, so we get Pottery in 3340 and our Worker and Workboat both complete 1 turn later in 3310BC.
I sent the Worker to cottage the floodplain, and started a warrior in both the capital and Osaka. I set research to Hunting in anticipation of Archery. I kept the original warrior on a hill near the start site to keep down the fog for now.
More soon....
Yes, the extra research from Kyoto's growth shaved 1 turn off Pottery, so we get Pottery in 3340 and our Worker and Workboat both complete 1 turn later in 3310BC.
I sent the Worker to cottage the floodplain, and started a warrior in both the capital and Osaka. I set research to Hunting in anticipation of Archery. I kept the original warrior on a hill near the start site to keep down the fog for now.
More soon....
Compromise
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More Shadow Test Report:
Our cottage (takes forever on a floodplain) finished in 3100, and I next put the Workers on a road there. Archery in 10 more turns....
In 2950, the Worker completes the floodplain cottage road and has nothing else to do (lots of forest around the city), so I put him on a hill to dissipate fog (while building a road there). I could save a turn on Archery by working the coast instead of a grass forest, but I decide I want the growth and the production on the warrior in Osaka.
In 2830, I complete the warrior in Osaka, but am still one turn away from Archery. Note: we could micromanage to complete the warrior and get Archery in the same turn so that our next build could be an archer!
In 2800, I get Archery, and it's 19 turns to an archer while working the flood cottage and and a grass forest. (Mining is 10 turns away). I've met 3 other civs, so we might be getting some research bonus that may or may not occur in the real game.
A quick Worldbuilder check at 2800 reveals only barb animals so far.
My worker is wasting time building roads (that I hope will slow any barb invasion. He's covered by the starting warrior. I kept Osaka working the cottage and the forest for growth/production.
In 2620, Osaka grows to size 3, and works 2 grass forests and the flood cottage.
In 2530, Bronze is 16 turns away, and I know at least one AI who has already switched to Slavery.
In 2440, I'm only a few turns from the first archer (in Osaka), and a Worldbuilder check reveals barb animals, warriors and archers afoot!
Okay, I'm including the save from 2350. I have completed an archer in Osaka. I could have gotten the archer sooner by micromanaging at the expense of research. The flood cottage is now a hamlet pulling in 3 commerce (includes one from the river) per turn. I think barbs were locally kept under control by wandering AI units, who never gave me any trouble.
Bronzeworking is just 10 turns away, and a new settler is 25 turns away (or Osaka could grow to its happy max of 4 in 4 turns)! We are at +13gpt at 0% research.
Thoughts in the next post.
Our cottage (takes forever on a floodplain) finished in 3100, and I next put the Workers on a road there. Archery in 10 more turns....
In 2950, the Worker completes the floodplain cottage road and has nothing else to do (lots of forest around the city), so I put him on a hill to dissipate fog (while building a road there). I could save a turn on Archery by working the coast instead of a grass forest, but I decide I want the growth and the production on the warrior in Osaka.
In 2830, I complete the warrior in Osaka, but am still one turn away from Archery. Note: we could micromanage to complete the warrior and get Archery in the same turn so that our next build could be an archer!
In 2800, I get Archery, and it's 19 turns to an archer while working the flood cottage and and a grass forest. (Mining is 10 turns away). I've met 3 other civs, so we might be getting some research bonus that may or may not occur in the real game.
A quick Worldbuilder check at 2800 reveals only barb animals so far.
My worker is wasting time building roads (that I hope will slow any barb invasion. He's covered by the starting warrior. I kept Osaka working the cottage and the forest for growth/production.
In 2620, Osaka grows to size 3, and works 2 grass forests and the flood cottage.
In 2530, Bronze is 16 turns away, and I know at least one AI who has already switched to Slavery.
In 2440, I'm only a few turns from the first archer (in Osaka), and a Worldbuilder check reveals barb animals, warriors and archers afoot!
Okay, I'm including the save from 2350. I have completed an archer in Osaka. I could have gotten the archer sooner by micromanaging at the expense of research. The flood cottage is now a hamlet pulling in 3 commerce (includes one from the river) per turn. I think barbs were locally kept under control by wandering AI units, who never gave me any trouble.
Bronzeworking is just 10 turns away, and a new settler is 25 turns away (or Osaka could grow to its happy max of 4 in 4 turns)! We are at +13gpt at 0% research.
Thoughts in the next post.
Compromise
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Okay, even though it's almost (?) too late, I wanted to bring this up: going Pottery and Worker first in an immediately-settled Osaka is a valid strategy!
In 2350, Kyoto pulls in 19 commerce, and if needed, Osaka pulls in 8 by working the coast and the cottage.
Barb archers almost immediately came at the city, and when one stumbled on the cottage, it pillaged that before attacking the city. So, this is not an option without risk, but it is viable.
My personal thinking is that we should still use the Settler to find a better site, if there are any, because having archers on sentry duty will be very helpful for protecting our improvements.
But I wanted to throw this out there for discussion.
PS: Note that I haven't run the no-settle, Archery-first case for comparison.
In 2350, Kyoto pulls in 19 commerce, and if needed, Osaka pulls in 8 by working the coast and the cottage.
Barb archers almost immediately came at the city, and when one stumbled on the cottage, it pillaged that before attacking the city. So, this is not an option without risk, but it is viable.
My personal thinking is that we should still use the Settler to find a better site, if there are any, because having archers on sentry duty will be very helpful for protecting our improvements.
But I wanted to throw this out there for discussion.
PS: Note that I haven't run the no-settle, Archery-first case for comparison.
Kodii
Ka ICE
Its not a bad plan, but I'm not the biggest fan of the cottage being pillaged right away. There is also still the maintenance problem right at the get go. Once again, it will have to come down to chance. Will we find a better settling spot by exploring? Or should we not take that chance and settle right away?
EDIT - Post #100
EDIT - Post #100
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