LuvToBuild
Prince
I've got it. I'm not sure if I'll get to it tonight but I'll try.
SGOTM 02 - VQ Black
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
namliaM
Deity
Still building a Monastary feels like a waste even with the added speed of the Missionaries...
Tho its only a 2 turn build... I wont oppose it (strongly) tho formaly
We also have (another) part build missionary allready in Alexandria...
I was just throwing some ideas around
Ironworks IMHO is a wast
Westpoint... not worth delaying production for at this point...
Drydock is really best in Barca... I like this...
As for infra anywhere... Only stuff we REALLY need... Like that Colloseum I suggested in Madrid when we have the unhappy people there with the WW.
Edit: About the Great Scientist... Seeing as we dont need another super scientist (really) lets preserve him, maybe start a GA combined with another GP?
And as we seem to agree on the fact that more research is pointless at this point in time, lets change all Scientist specialists to Merchants (where possible) or other specialists (Engineer/Priest)
@LTB Good luck May the RNG be with you
Tho its only a 2 turn build... I wont oppose it (strongly) tho formaly
We also have (another) part build missionary allready in Alexandria...
I was just throwing some ideas around
Ironworks IMHO is a wast
Westpoint... not worth delaying production for at this point...
Drydock is really best in Barca... I like this...
As for infra anywhere... Only stuff we REALLY need... Like that Colloseum I suggested in Madrid when we have the unhappy people there with the WW.
Edit: About the Great Scientist... Seeing as we dont need another super scientist (really) lets preserve him, maybe start a GA combined with another GP?
And as we seem to agree on the fact that more research is pointless at this point in time, lets change all Scientist specialists to Merchants (where possible) or other specialists (Engineer/Priest)
@LTB Good luck
May the RNG be with you
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Just keep "Lucky Bastard" alive guys. It would be cool to see him finish the game. LOL
pigswill
fly (one day)
One aspect of the game I'm just coming to realise is the early promotions thing. Basically if you've got barracks you've got 4xp/level 2 units; if you add either feudalism or theocracy you've got 6xp/level 3 units.
If you run feudalism you lose out on bureaucracy so no super-power capital.
If you run theocracy you're committed to a state religion (and spreading it around).
Which is better? 4xp units or feudalism or theocracy. I'm not sure that there's a blanket answer to this question but I am coming to think its a question to be debated and resolved early on because it has a significant impact on how you develop your entire civ.
If you run feudalism you lose out on bureaucracy so no super-power capital.
If you run theocracy you're committed to a state religion (and spreading it around).
Which is better? 4xp units or feudalism or theocracy. I'm not sure that there's a blanket answer to this question but I am coming to think its a question to be debated and resolved early on because it has a significant impact on how you develop your entire civ.
namliaM
Deity
Best answer to that is Pigswill... That depends... (like everything in Civ)
I think of it this way, If you run Theocracy and have a barracks => 6xp
add 2 more xp for Vassalage (Not feudalism, that is the tech it comes with IIRC) and you have 8xp.
Thus what does Vassalage + Theocracy get you? NADA, but for 2xp closer to the next promotion... but NOTHING you can use striaght off...
In our current state of affairs I think the following options are available...
- Buro + Theo
- Vasalage + Pasifism (not a real option due to our huge military)
- Vasalage + OR (why? to build a few forges? For a few missionaries?)
Now if you are able to build The Pentagon (missed it on a MP game I am playing by 2 turns
) you get another +2xp. Therefor running Theo + Vasalage + barracks + Pentagon = 10xp = 3 promotions of right off the barracks. In this case, who needs westpoint for the 4 extra xp?
It is definatly something to think about next time in a warmongers game
Oh about the keep list... If we are going to be upgrading a whole lot of units, maybe we should keep some more cities with a lot of towns.
Lets get Lucky Basterd up to commando as well
*the crowd screams* Go LTB Go... Go LTB Go *exit screamin crowd*
I think of it this way, If you run Theocracy and have a barracks => 6xp
add 2 more xp for Vassalage (Not feudalism, that is the tech it comes with IIRC) and you have 8xp.
Thus what does Vassalage + Theocracy get you? NADA, but for 2xp closer to the next promotion... but NOTHING you can use striaght off...
In our current state of affairs I think the following options are available...
- Buro + Theo
- Vasalage + Pasifism (not a real option due to our huge military)
- Vasalage + OR (why? to build a few forges? For a few missionaries?)
Now if you are able to build The Pentagon (missed it on a MP game I am playing by 2 turns
) you get another +2xp. Therefor running Theo + Vasalage + barracks + Pentagon = 10xp = 3 promotions of right off the barracks. In this case, who needs westpoint for the 4 extra xp?It is definatly something to think about next time in a warmongers game
Oh about the keep list... If we are going to be upgrading a whole lot of units, maybe we should keep some more cities with a lot of towns.
Lets get Lucky Basterd up to commando as well
*the crowd screams* Go LTB Go... Go LTB Go *exit screamin crowd*
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
sounds like a Toronto Maple Leafs jingle. (go leafs go but haven't had much cause to sing that we them losing all the time)
LuvToBuild
Prince
Pre-Turn
I decided to do an empire tour starting with the oldest cities and working my way up through the recently acquired cities. I figured this would be the best way to get a handle on what we have now in the way of territory.
I started in Kyoto and switched the scientist to a merchant. Most if not all of us seem to agree that is the best course now. We will probably need to watch things there from time to time when the city grows. I think it probably puts the new citizen as a scientist first and then as a merchant. I didn't see anything else that needed done in Kyoto.
Osaka seemed to be doing well. I happen to think it would be good to get the monastery there and crank out a couple of quick missionaries for the theocracy promotions.
Shouldn't we replace the villages in Tokyo with farms so that we can be using and building workshops instead of building farms on the plains tiles? Converting those two villages to farms gets us +2 food and would allow us to work the currently unworked workshop while still growing. We are only going to lose 10gpt and we should be able to easily get that from newly conquered cities. Djenne or Karakorum could give us a nice boost in the gpt department later. Doing this means we could have one more workshop on the last forest tile instead of a farm. It's really too bad that we don't have any way to get State Property soon. Having the extra food there would help production a lot.
I changed the scientist in Edo to a merchant and added a second merchant. I'm not sure exactly how we're handling Edo. I know we've been whipping some but we have to be careful with the whip in Edo since it doesn't have the Globe. We seem to produce a fair amount of ships there so I'm thinking a drydock and maybe a temple might be in order. A priest could be the same as an engineer if/when we get our hands on Angkor Wat in Cologne. A temple costs 120
which is less than some of the military units that we've been producing. The drydock costs 180 and gives us another 50% boost every time we produce a ship. Those ships come out with 6XP. Whipping a crossbow within the window would generate substantial overflow which could then be put into a galleon or frigate and the drydock would, if I'm not mistaken, give us an additional 50% bonus. We could probably build the drydock from whipping a frigate or galleon within the window. Capture the overflow and then switch to citizens to shutdown growth while building another frigate/galleon. Switch back to water tiles so that the city grows again just before its time to whip.
I whipped the samurai in Kagoshima. It was within the window. I put a second samurai behind it to catch the overflow. I also setup an engineer. I would like to investigate further what can be done to improve the efficiency of production there as well. For now, I'll play it by ear.
Looking over Satsuma, I noticed that we could get production higher there if we chop the two grassland forests along the river and plant farms. We would suffer a short term loss of two hammers but the growth and extra food production would allow us to build and work two plains workshops east of the city. If my math is right, growth would stagnant but we really wouldn't need a higher population there for higher production. The coastal tiles would only let us squeeze out a little more gpt.
I removed the engineer in Cordoba and had him work the mine. It didn't really make much sense to be getting one less hammer and one less food per turn. I'm also thinking that it might make sense to replace the grasslands workshop with a cottage and put the workshop on the free plains tile. Also, is there any reason why we have three half built things in the queue? How about we finish some stuff there before adding to the queue.
Seville looks like it could use some farms instead of cottages. Maybe getting an irrigation link north to the rice in Barcelona would help things there too. With the rice irrigated and a lighthouse built, we could work two more workshops in Barcelona. Plus, the farms running through Seville would allow us to work the plains hill mine and some workshops.
I queued a Hindu temple in Madrid to catch the overflow and to help with happiness. I considered the coliseum since it also gives +1 happy/10% culture but then I felt like the temple would give us the same base +1 happiness and allow another priest specialist for more production.
Khoisan looked to be in good shape. I switched from two water tiles in Kawisaki to the two plains forests. I'm thinking we could stop growth with a workshop on the last plains square. Any more growth just puts us closer to unhappiness and doesn't get us much more in production. It looks like more farms and workshops can go in Fuji as it grows. I did assign the engineer to work a plains forest tile. Still two hammers plus another food for faster growth.
Elephantine looks as though it could use some more production. I'm going to replace an unworked cottage and hamlet with workshops. By the time they would mature we will (hopefully) have this game won. I'd suggest using some of the river tiles for farms or workshops as well. We might want to build farms and then start switching to workshops as the population grows. More farms will grow the population in Elephantine faster.
I put a workboat in front of the cannon in Memphis in order to get the fish up and growing the city faster. Lots of decent production there so the faster we can get the population to work it, the better. I took the cannon out of the queue for Alexandria. There was a Jewish missionary half built and I figured it made sense to let him finish and then build another one so that I can try to get Judaism spread to Edo and Kagoshima.
I switched some citizens around in Thebes to maximize production and get the forge built sooner. This caused growth to stagnant so I placed a workboat in the queue ahead of the forge. Workboat done in 3 turns, forge in 7 turns. Hope to have both complete by the end of my round and then we can benefit from increased production while still growing.
Beijing could use a couple of workshops on the flood plains. Growth would stagnant but production would be maximized. Guangzhou hasn't popped its borders yet so its hard to tell what it's potential is but it looks like the plains cottage and hamlet to the west could be replaced by workshops and worked using the food from the fish to the east.
Shanghai and Nanjing are still in revolt so not much to report there. I think that concludes the tour. Sorry for the long winded analysis but I felt like I needed to take a long look at the infrastructure and economy before proceeding to the war. Having some thoughts ahead of time concerning infrastructure and the economy should help speed up my decision making during each turn.
Concerning the war front, it looks like Mao is just about finished. IIRC, you guys mentioned trying some pointy stick research with Mao in order to get MT and the ability to build cavalry. So, I managed to get MT plus his world map and 1gpt for ten turns. I set research to Replaceable Parts. I wasn't sure what we would want next since research is 0% anyway. I figured if we were going to work towards something, it might as well be something that could potentially help with production. Obviously, we are going to skip past Rifling unless we suddenly decide we need it after all. I'm doubting we ever get to a point where we finish RP anyway.
Turn 1
Nothing too exciting. I spent some time upgrading here and there plus redeploying to the border with Bismarck and KK. I wasn't sure who we wanted to go to war with next. I've heard both Kublai and Bismarck. Bismarck is by far the strongest so Kublai would be a quicker kill. However, the longer we go without destroying Bismarck, the more powerful he will become. The same could be said for Kublai of course but at least he would probably only be as powerful as Bismarck is now. By that time, we should be quite a bit more powerful and so we should still have superior numbers. I've decided to play through a couple of turns and then post what I have before continuing. I would like to finish the full ten turns but I thought some guidance concerning our war planning was in order plus it's getting late.
Turn 2
The Jewish monastery is complete in Osaka. I've decided to work on getting a handful of missionaries out of there so we can start benefiting from theocracy on Hokkaido.
This was the first part of my report while trying to play through last night. At this point, I'm thinking it might be best if I spent the rest of my time getting bobrath in a position to strike quickly at our next victim. I'm also willing to just load up the save and let our leader take my turns plus his if everyone else is cool with that. I'm not sure that I can finish tonight anyway. Too much RL stuff this week.
I decided to do an empire tour starting with the oldest cities and working my way up through the recently acquired cities. I figured this would be the best way to get a handle on what we have now in the way of territory.
I started in Kyoto and switched the scientist to a merchant. Most if not all of us seem to agree that is the best course now. We will probably need to watch things there from time to time when the city grows. I think it probably puts the new citizen as a scientist first and then as a merchant. I didn't see anything else that needed done in Kyoto.
Osaka seemed to be doing well. I happen to think it would be good to get the monastery there and crank out a couple of quick missionaries for the theocracy promotions.
Shouldn't we replace the villages in Tokyo with farms so that we can be using and building workshops instead of building farms on the plains tiles? Converting those two villages to farms gets us +2 food and would allow us to work the currently unworked workshop while still growing. We are only going to lose 10gpt and we should be able to easily get that from newly conquered cities. Djenne or Karakorum could give us a nice boost in the gpt department later. Doing this means we could have one more workshop on the last forest tile instead of a farm. It's really too bad that we don't have any way to get State Property soon. Having the extra food there would help production a lot.
I changed the scientist in Edo to a merchant and added a second merchant. I'm not sure exactly how we're handling Edo. I know we've been whipping some but we have to be careful with the whip in Edo since it doesn't have the Globe. We seem to produce a fair amount of ships there so I'm thinking a drydock and maybe a temple might be in order. A priest could be the same as an engineer if/when we get our hands on Angkor Wat in Cologne. A temple costs 120
which is less than some of the military units that we've been producing. The drydock costs 180 and gives us another 50% boost every time we produce a ship. Those ships come out with 6XP. Whipping a crossbow within the window would generate substantial overflow which could then be put into a galleon or frigate and the drydock would, if I'm not mistaken, give us an additional 50% bonus. We could probably build the drydock from whipping a frigate or galleon within the window. Capture the overflow and then switch to citizens to shutdown growth while building another frigate/galleon. Switch back to water tiles so that the city grows again just before its time to whip.
I whipped the samurai in Kagoshima. It was within the window. I put a second samurai behind it to catch the overflow. I also setup an engineer. I would like to investigate further what can be done to improve the efficiency of production there as well. For now, I'll play it by ear.
Looking over Satsuma, I noticed that we could get production higher there if we chop the two grassland forests along the river and plant farms. We would suffer a short term loss of two hammers but the growth and extra food production would allow us to build and work two plains workshops east of the city. If my math is right, growth would stagnant but we really wouldn't need a higher population there for higher production. The coastal tiles would only let us squeeze out a little more gpt.
I removed the engineer in Cordoba and had him work the mine. It didn't really make much sense to be getting one less hammer and one less food per turn. I'm also thinking that it might make sense to replace the grasslands workshop with a cottage and put the workshop on the free plains tile. Also, is there any reason why we have three half built things in the queue? How about we finish some stuff there before adding to the queue.
Seville looks like it could use some farms instead of cottages. Maybe getting an irrigation link north to the rice in Barcelona would help things there too. With the rice irrigated and a lighthouse built, we could work two more workshops in Barcelona. Plus, the farms running through Seville would allow us to work the plains hill mine and some workshops.
I queued a Hindu temple in Madrid to catch the overflow and to help with happiness. I considered the coliseum since it also gives +1 happy/10% culture but then I felt like the temple would give us the same base +1 happiness and allow another priest specialist for more production.
Khoisan looked to be in good shape. I switched from two water tiles in Kawisaki to the two plains forests. I'm thinking we could stop growth with a workshop on the last plains square. Any more growth just puts us closer to unhappiness and doesn't get us much more in production. It looks like more farms and workshops can go in Fuji as it grows. I did assign the engineer to work a plains forest tile. Still two hammers plus another food for faster growth.
Elephantine looks as though it could use some more production. I'm going to replace an unworked cottage and hamlet with workshops. By the time they would mature we will (hopefully) have this game won. I'd suggest using some of the river tiles for farms or workshops as well. We might want to build farms and then start switching to workshops as the population grows. More farms will grow the population in Elephantine faster.
I put a workboat in front of the cannon in Memphis in order to get the fish up and growing the city faster. Lots of decent production there so the faster we can get the population to work it, the better. I took the cannon out of the queue for Alexandria. There was a Jewish missionary half built and I figured it made sense to let him finish and then build another one so that I can try to get Judaism spread to Edo and Kagoshima.
I switched some citizens around in Thebes to maximize production and get the forge built sooner. This caused growth to stagnant so I placed a workboat in the queue ahead of the forge. Workboat done in 3 turns, forge in 7 turns. Hope to have both complete by the end of my round and then we can benefit from increased production while still growing.
Beijing could use a couple of workshops on the flood plains. Growth would stagnant but production would be maximized. Guangzhou hasn't popped its borders yet so its hard to tell what it's potential is but it looks like the plains cottage and hamlet to the west could be replaced by workshops and worked using the food from the fish to the east.
Shanghai and Nanjing are still in revolt so not much to report there. I think that concludes the tour. Sorry for the long winded analysis but I felt like I needed to take a long look at the infrastructure and economy before proceeding to the war. Having some thoughts ahead of time concerning infrastructure and the economy should help speed up my decision making during each turn.
Concerning the war front, it looks like Mao is just about finished. IIRC, you guys mentioned trying some pointy stick research with Mao in order to get MT and the ability to build cavalry. So, I managed to get MT plus his world map and 1gpt for ten turns. I set research to Replaceable Parts. I wasn't sure what we would want next since research is 0% anyway. I figured if we were going to work towards something, it might as well be something that could potentially help with production. Obviously, we are going to skip past Rifling unless we suddenly decide we need it after all. I'm doubting we ever get to a point where we finish RP anyway.
Turn 1
Nothing too exciting. I spent some time upgrading here and there plus redeploying to the border with Bismarck and KK. I wasn't sure who we wanted to go to war with next. I've heard both Kublai and Bismarck. Bismarck is by far the strongest so Kublai would be a quicker kill. However, the longer we go without destroying Bismarck, the more powerful he will become. The same could be said for Kublai of course but at least he would probably only be as powerful as Bismarck is now. By that time, we should be quite a bit more powerful and so we should still have superior numbers. I've decided to play through a couple of turns and then post what I have before continuing. I would like to finish the full ten turns but I thought some guidance concerning our war planning was in order plus it's getting late.
Turn 2
The Jewish monastery is complete in Osaka. I've decided to work on getting a handful of missionaries out of there so we can start benefiting from theocracy on Hokkaido.
This was the first part of my report while trying to play through last night. At this point, I'm thinking it might be best if I spent the rest of my time getting bobrath in a position to strike quickly at our next victim. I'm also willing to just load up the save and let our leader take my turns plus his if everyone else is cool with that. I'm not sure that I can finish tonight anyway. Too much RL stuff this week.
namliaM
Deity
Where is the game ?bobrath said:
I hope LTB hasnt had this pointy stick
AAAARGH revenge of the
Edit: LOL crossposted with the turnlog
bobrath
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,238
They are your turns. Play them out! Enjoy the fun!!
BTW, any plot that you intend to replace an improvement - have one of our units pillage it. We get gold out of it. It doesn't speed up the follow on improvement by the worker, but more gold never hurt anyone.
For war planning, getting us set up for a two front war - one with KK and one with Bismark sounds like a good generic plan to me. Either that or demolish KK and then open up the two front with Bismark and HC.
BTW, any plot that you intend to replace an improvement - have one of our units pillage it. We get gold out of it. It doesn't speed up the follow on improvement by the worker, but more gold never hurt anyone.
For war planning, getting us set up for a two front war - one with KK and one with Bismark sounds like a good generic plan to me. Either that or demolish KK and then open up the two front with Bismark and HC.
namliaM
Deity
A daring proposal in this crowdLuvToBuild said:
We would actually be losing 20gpt as we have a market, grocery and Bank in Osaka IIRC...At the very least it is worth farmin' up some of the non worked tiles... But watch the happy limit tho.... In particular with the combined WW we will be experiencing....
Edo should stop building ship... IMHO... let it (slow) build some cheap Pikes/LBs/CrossbowsLuvToBuild said:
Otherwise it can just grow to the happy limit ... and a whip every now and again...
Same goes for Kagoshima.... Nice whippin' there... But stick to Pikes... IMHO...
Edit: The whip is WAY more powerfull than 1 or 2 citizens/Priests... IMHO work the coastal tiles and whip those towns (Edo and Kagoshima) for 2 pop every 15 turns... (i.e. a Samurai with nearly nothing put into it or a catapult with nearly nothing in it for 1 pop). We gain 132 hammers per 2 pop whip, vs 4 * 15 = 60 hammers when running 2 priests (with Ankwor)
We gain 88 hammer per 1 pop whip.
Also we gain a little more commerce. More commerce and More production... sounds like a winner to me...
Satsuma, more hammers
Cordoba = Money maker... To little hammers there to speak off...
We should either rework it completly (Farms and Workshops) or just cottage it up... and trickle some LB/Crossbow from it...
*Wow lots of MM*
Seville => Even more hammers...
Madrid => Temple is OK, Colloseum tho helps with
on the culture sliderwe will want a Theatre and Colloseum in most cities eventually....
Elephantine => hammers Hammers HAMMERS
Alexandria => Stealing my idea???
Great job MM-ing everything... Looks like you got really into it...LuvToBuild said:
did you read posts/take notes? I think some of the ideas were out there as well...
I think the "game plan" is to get busy on KK asap (or as soon as you think we have the troops)
Meanwhile reinforce (former) Egypt a little and start on Bismarck ASAP as well.
We should be able to get going on 2 fronts right now...
Remember to bring your
for Kyoto ! ! ! !Again, good job on the MM... I say go for it if you have the time
RL allways comes first offcourse ....
pigswill
fly (one day)
Nice analysis of city management/development. If LTB has got RL stuff what about a swop instead of a skip; seems a bit rough to do the prep and not have time to play.
in terms of war I'd reckon two fronts vs Biz and KK.
in terms of war I'd reckon two fronts vs Biz and KK.
LuvToBuild
Prince
namliaM said:A daring proposal in this crowd
At the very least it is worth farmin' up some of the non worked tiles... But watch the happy limit tho.... In particular with the combined WW we will be experiencing....
It is currently producing 31
with only a market. Base commerce is 25, so without the two villages we would have 15 as the base. Multiply by 1.25 and we get 18:gold, -13 from what we have now. A -13 hit isn't such a big deal at this point IMHO (man did I really just say that? ). We have some nice commerce spots in Egypt / China that can be worked soon enough. We will probably pick up more in Germany. Versailles and the Buddhist shrine will help once we capture them. I'm not going to prioritize getting rid of those villages right now anyway. There are more important improvements to be made.namliaM said:Edo should stop building ship... IMHO... let it (slow) build some cheap Pikes/LBs/Crossbows Otherwise it can just grow to the happy limit ... and a whip every now and again...
I'll have to try and get a better feel for Edo. I've struggled with whipping there because the growth rate vs production rate doesn't seem to have a neat little rhythm like Kyoto. Plus we have to be more careful about unhappiness since we don't have the Globe there. I'll have to see how pikes and crossbows work. If I come up with a nice rhythm, I'll try to put together a decent "tutorial" and try to get us all on the same page. We seem to be building somewhat haphazardly.
namliaM said:
So building the farm chain north through Seville is good? I was thinking something like what you see below. Three farms and three workshops would leave us with the same +2 food. We could use that +2 food to setup an engineer and then basically halt growth. Working the water tiles only gives us commerce and we have better places to get more commerce and the higher pop hurts us when WW gets bad.
namliaM said:Madrid => Temple is OK, Colloseum tho helps with
Well, I debated between the two for that reason but when we don't run any culture, it doesn't help us any more than a temple. A priest would help us all the time and even now would be slightly better than a citizen for the one extra gold and GP points. More importantly, he acts as two citizens or an engineer later when we capture Angkor. We have a Confucian temple already and the Hindu temple would allow a second priest. The first Jewish missionary would head to Madrid and get it happy from the state religion. Building a Jewish temple at some point then gives us three priests and one more happy. The coliseum should probably be built at some point though when we can fit into the grand scheme of things. I'm sure WW will get really bad soon when we go on the long protracted journey still ahead of us around the ring.
namliaM said:Alexandria => Stealing my idea???
Well, sort of. I didn't remember you had said basically the same thing a few posts back until I read through some again this morning. I was aware of some of the ideas being batted around. I really haven't heard a lot in terms of improvements that I can recall. That's why I really wanted to produce a good look at each city and get us on the same page in terms of beneficial improvements and citizen working priorities.
namliaM said:
If the consensus is to hit both then I will get us deployed with that thought in mind. I would like to get us hitting them pretty hard ASAP because I feel like not being at war now is wasting time. My focus on the infrastructure is geared towards helping us to spend more time warring and less time thinking about what we need to improve. Hopefully, having some basic game plan like (build x in Y city and unit A in B city will help to keep us straight and not wondering all over the place while we focus on kicking butt.
Concerning RL, I might be able to get in a few turns here and there and be finished tonight.
bobrath
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,238
Most of our units are in place for taking down KK asap (I'd assume since they were all there for Mao), so feel free to jump on him before you hand off the game. If you can get units lined up in the mean time for taking on Bismark then so much the better.
EDIT:
Metagaming I know, but take a look at the charts... Massive down spike on score paired with a pretty signifigant upturn in power. I'll be very intrested to read that thread to understand the trials team rat pack is dealing with.
EDIT:
Metagaming I know, but take a look at the charts... Massive down spike on score paired with a pretty signifigant upturn in power. I'll be very intrested to read that thread to understand the trials team rat pack is dealing with.
namliaM
Deity
I think on Osaka commerce did you count the 50% burocracy bonus?
And you are right about priorities in improvements, Removing the Towns isnt necesaraly #1 on the list at the moment. I for one am not compleetly against it... I have been going for commerce from conquest and Towns from conquest from way back when...
Edo and Kagoshima "rythm" is easy, just pick something to build... Say a Longbow... IIRC a longbow = 75 hammers / 6 per turn = 12 turns. After that put 1 turn into a catapult or if you feel like you can whip 2 pop a Samurai and whip. The overflow of the whip can go anywhere you like.
Seville and Engineers in General... remember the if we can grow a pop in 15 turns an Engineer will bring 30 hammers (and some GP points, which will never catch Kyoto/Osaka/Madrid, thus useless). A whip will bring 88 ! (and some commerce).
Even if you/we forget to whip untill turn 30 the engineer will still only have brought 60 hammers to the table, still 18 short!
Other than the difference in Whip vs Engineer, I think adding 8 hammers per turn to seville ASAP is a great idea... I have been on the bandwagon of Hammers for a while now...
The discussion with me on this subject is preaching to the quire (spelling? Dont know if you know this (dutch?) proverb.... It means you are trying to convince someone that agrees with you from the start.)
I am convinced that with killing so many German troops and warring on KK ... WW will go to +30 at some point With both Kk and Bismarck it is MOST important to create a "gateway" to HC/Mansa so we can (if we must) sign temp peace with one of the 2 only to finish them off 10 turns later at which point the first should be dead.
Concerning Infra... IMHO DONT... we can take care of Infra when the need is there... More units make for shorter war, makes for less WW to worry about.
Once we notice WW creaping (shooting) up whipping a unit (at the right spot) a few times can create a nice overflow into a building... Get that building to the whip window and whip that as well, preferably 2 pop whip (91-111 hammers left to build, so temples dont apply unfortunatly).
Meanwhile the troops we build now are on the front line.
If we build infra now we are simply creating a happy surplus which we do not need (yet). Which will sit there untill at some point we may or may not need (I am trying to resist the U.e.e.. word). Units we know we need and we need them on the front ASAP.
After we have reached the happy cap we still have the culture slider to give us some extra slack on the Happy, at which point a Colloseum would jump to prio #1, as would a Theatre.... Temple maybe...
Please dont look at priests for hammers. Yes they do produce them, but the whip (if not causing further unhappiness) is by far the better hammer supply than the Priest.
Priests/Engineers are simply there for the GP points. Getting a Great Engineer would be nice, but all we do with him is MAYBE rush the FP someplace....
Any other Great person will end up getting joined someplace. So I personaly deam specialists to be "of lesser value" (not using the U word ) than hammers... And hammers are supplied by the not by specialists.
Edit: I agree with bob, GO GO GO on KK now... Or atleast at the earliest convience... Dont wait for "all" units to be in place... Just get a good force and start pressing...
Has anyone seen a sign of HE in any of KK's cities?
Edit2: On the keep list of Mongolian and German cities... I left out mayor/decent commerce cities... I think now we want to keep (some of) them... If need be to 50% or so of land coverage....
And you are right about priorities in improvements, Removing the Towns isnt necesaraly #1 on the list at the moment. I for one am not compleetly against it... I have been going for commerce from conquest and Towns from conquest from way back when...
Edo and Kagoshima "rythm" is easy, just pick something to build... Say a Longbow... IIRC a longbow = 75 hammers / 6 per turn = 12 turns. After that put 1 turn into a catapult or if you feel like you can whip 2 pop a Samurai and whip. The overflow of the whip can go anywhere you like.
Seville and Engineers in General... remember the
if we can grow a pop in 15 turns an Engineer will bring 30 hammers (and some GP points, which will never catch Kyoto/Osaka/Madrid, thus useless). A whip will bring 88 ! (and some commerce).Even if you/we forget to whip untill turn 30 the engineer will still only have brought 60 hammers to the table, still 18 short!
Other than the difference in Whip vs Engineer, I think adding 8 hammers per turn to seville ASAP is a great idea... I have been on the bandwagon of Hammers for a while now...
The discussion with me on this subject is preaching to the quire (spelling? Dont know if you know this (dutch?) proverb.... It means you are trying to convince someone that agrees with you from the start.)
I am convinced that with killing so many German troops and warring on KK ... WW will go to +30 at some point
With both Kk and Bismarck it is MOST important to create a "gateway" to HC/Mansa so we can (if we must) sign temp peace with one of the 2 only to finish them off 10 turns later at which point the first should be dead.Concerning Infra... IMHO DONT... we can take care of Infra when the need is there... More units make for shorter war, makes for less WW to worry about.
Once we notice WW creaping (shooting) up whipping a unit (at the right spot) a few times can create a nice overflow into a building... Get that building to the whip window and whip that as well, preferably 2 pop whip (91-111 hammers left to build, so temples dont apply unfortunatly).
Meanwhile the troops we build now are on the front line.
If we build infra now we are simply creating a happy surplus which we do not need (yet). Which will sit there untill at some point we may or may not need (I am trying to resist the U.e.e.. word). Units we know we need and we need them on the front ASAP.
After we have reached the happy cap we still have the culture slider to give us some extra slack on the Happy, at which point a Colloseum would jump to prio #1, as would a Theatre.... Temple maybe...
Please dont look at priests for hammers. Yes they do produce them, but the whip (if not causing further unhappiness) is by far the better hammer supply than the Priest.
Priests/Engineers are simply there for the GP points. Getting a Great Engineer would be nice, but all we do with him is MAYBE rush the FP someplace....
Any other Great person will end up getting joined someplace. So I personaly deam specialists to be "of lesser value" (not using the U word
) than hammers... And hammers are supplied by the not by specialists.Edit: I agree with bob, GO GO GO on KK now... Or atleast at the earliest convience... Dont wait for "all" units to be in place... Just get a good force and start pressing...
Has anyone seen a sign of HE in any of KK's cities?
Edit2: On the keep list of Mongolian and German cities... I left out mayor/decent commerce cities... I think now we want to keep (some of) them... If need be to 50% or so of land coverage....
namliaM
Deity
Isnt leaving the FP to KK land leaving the FP to late? First we have to capture say Karakorum, then wait for 8-10 turns for the resistance to leave... and then build the thing... thats 25 turns in total (easy)
I think, if we want any significant bonus from the FP all we need do is build it in the Chinese lands... upkeep up there is also like 12 or 13 gpt with a Courthouse, Versailles (way down south) may well lower it to 10 or so but having the FP up there would take them down to 4 or 5 ... Making a considerable dent in upkeep I think.... Both in china land and KK and BT... Tho BT will be as much affected by Versailles as it will by the FP in china.
On keeping cities. I think we keep most of germany (baring the 3 western most (crap) cities) and the nothern cities of KK...
I think, if we want any significant bonus from the FP all we need do is build it in the Chinese lands... upkeep up there is also like 12 or 13 gpt with a Courthouse, Versailles (way down south) may well lower it to 10 or so but having the FP up there would take them down to 4 or 5 ... Making a considerable dent in upkeep I think.... Both in china land and KK and BT... Tho BT will be as much affected by Versailles as it will by the FP in china.
On keeping cities. I think we keep most of germany (baring the 3 western most (crap) cities) and the nothern cities of KK...
LuvToBuild
Prince
Turn 3
Completed the Hindu temple in Madrid. I setup a drydock to capture the overflow. The 100% bonus plus the substantial overflow will complete it in 3 turns so it'd be a good investment in my opinion. Finished chopping the last forest in Khoisan. The chop finished the frigate and left a cool 48 hammers to overflow. That combined with the base 18 hammers will give us a nice 148 hammers to build a drydock in 2 turns. I figured it made sense to get one there too. Finished the Courthouse in Guangzhou. I saw we didn't have a barracks there yet so I figured we should get one now so that we have it in place for cranking out. Yeah, I know its starting to feel like a lot of infrastructure building but this is stuff that will help us to build higher quality units. We're not sacrificing more than about one unit in most cases. I'd prefer to build 8 level 3 units than 10 level 2 units. While viewing Guangzhou, I noticed we weren't building any culture so I took away the horse citizen and setup a merchant. It added a turn to the Barracks due to the loss of 3 hammers. The horse or marble citizens were only two choices since they were one food tiles. Any other tile would have resulted in starvation. We can put the merchant back to the pasture after the borders get popped.
Turn 4
The GS arrived in Osaka. I hate to leave him sitting around twiddling his thumbs but namliaM's suggestion of trying to get a GA with him has merit. His only real use to us right now would be to merge him in Osaka and get an extra hammer. The 6 beakers isn't gonna do much for us right now and an academy somewhere is "useless" He would give us beakers towards SM but everyone already has that so we won't get any trade value for it and it doesn't help us get to a conquest any sooner. Of course, if we were able to get to nukes soon, it might 
MUUAHHH!! Anyway, we should get another great person soon in Edo and then Osaka isn't far behind. So, maybe we will get something other than another scientist. If another scientist pops up in Edo, I'd suggest merging him there for the extra hammer. One more hammer there is more significant than an extra hammer in Osaka.
Finished a drydock in Barcelona and started on a Lighthouse. We'll need it for the 1 extra food from the clams. Getting a farm link to the rice will give us another extra food. That should be enough to utilize workshops on all of the grassland tiles while still maintaining a couple of priests and an engineer OR working the (soon to be) two food water tiles for growth to whip.
I used the first Jewish missionary from Osaka to spread Judaism to Tokyo. I had wanted to send him to Madrid but then I figured that we needed it more in Tokyo at the moment. We should probably focus on getting it to the highest production centers on Hokkaido first, then work our way down the list.
Turn 5
I decided to stop at 5 turns. It was a nice even 1730 (Cosmichail knows how I'm anal about that sort of thing ). I also didn't want to delay going to war any longer and I just don't have the time to be effective tonight in that department so I will leave it to others for now. I've been moving a large part of our fleet to the BT area. I feel like we should be able to efficiently move men and equipment from Hokkaido to the ring with two frigate/galleon combinations on constant rotation. I realize we could use more frigates once we go to war with Bizzy but for now it should be good enough. We should be able to get a couple more frigates coming from Hokkaido to protect that area. He doesn't have a lot that I can see anyway. I figure one galleon is good enough to shuttle units from BT to the ring. We're not producing them that quickly. The rest can be used to bombard defenses from the shore and to land right next to a coastal city. For those brave enough, we could try amphibious assaults. Some Cmbt II/Amphibious combinations might be worth considering.
I suggest we build only pikes, crossbows,or cannons in most of our cities. Grennies or cannons in Kyoto. LBMs and musketmen can't be upgraded since we'll never get Rifling. So crossbows are the best choice for garrison units. Build them, give them CG promotions, and then upgrade them to a grennie and stick them in a city. We have a handful of cavalry now from upgrading knights and war elephants. Use them for pillaging. I wouldn't bother to build more unless we lose some. Avoid fights when possible and just use them to gain us more gold for the coffers, plus deny well developed territory to settlers. Of course, a larger navy couldn't hurt.
Anyway, have fun guys. I hope to see us almost finished by the time it gets back around to me.
Here's the detailed turnlog:
Here's the latest save: Current Save
Current Roster:
bobrath -> UP
namliaM -> on deck
Cosmichail
pigswill
LuvToBuild -> just played
eektor -> autoskip
Completed the Hindu temple in Madrid. I setup a drydock to capture the overflow. The 100% bonus plus the substantial overflow will complete it in 3 turns so it'd be a good investment in my opinion. Finished chopping the last forest in Khoisan. The chop finished the frigate and left a cool 48 hammers to overflow. That combined with the base 18 hammers will give us a nice 148 hammers to build a drydock in 2 turns. I figured it made sense to get one there too. Finished the Courthouse in Guangzhou. I saw we didn't have a barracks there yet so I figured we should get one now so that we have it in place for cranking out. Yeah, I know its starting to feel like a lot of infrastructure building but this is stuff that will help us to build higher quality units. We're not sacrificing more than about one unit in most cases. I'd prefer to build 8 level 3 units than 10 level 2 units. While viewing Guangzhou, I noticed we weren't building any culture so I took away the horse citizen and setup a merchant. It added a turn to the Barracks due to the loss of 3 hammers. The horse or marble citizens were only two choices since they were one food tiles. Any other tile would have resulted in starvation. We can put the merchant back to the pasture after the borders get popped.
Turn 4
The GS arrived in Osaka. I hate to leave him sitting around twiddling his thumbs but namliaM's suggestion of trying to get a GA with him has merit. His only real use to us right now would be to merge him in Osaka and get an extra hammer. The 6 beakers isn't gonna do much for us right now and an academy somewhere is "useless"
He would give us beakers towards SM but everyone already has that so we won't get any trade value for it and it doesn't help us get to a conquest any sooner. Of course, if we were able to get to nukes soon, it might MUUAHHH!! Anyway, we should get another great person soon in Edo and then Osaka isn't far behind. So, maybe we will get something other than another scientist. If another scientist pops up in Edo, I'd suggest merging him there for the extra hammer. One more hammer there is more significant than an extra hammer in Osaka.Finished a drydock in Barcelona and started on a Lighthouse. We'll need it for the 1 extra food from the clams. Getting a farm link to the rice will give us another extra food. That should be enough to utilize workshops on all of the grassland tiles while still maintaining a couple of priests and an engineer OR working the (soon to be) two food water tiles for growth to whip.
I used the first Jewish missionary from Osaka to spread Judaism to Tokyo. I had wanted to send him to Madrid but then I figured that we needed it more in Tokyo at the moment. We should probably focus on getting it to the highest production centers on Hokkaido first, then work our way down the list.
Turn 5
I decided to stop at 5 turns. It was a nice even 1730 (Cosmichail knows how I'm anal about that sort of thing
). I also didn't want to delay going to war any longer and I just don't have the time to be effective tonight in that department so I will leave it to others for now. I've been moving a large part of our fleet to the BT area. I feel like we should be able to efficiently move men and equipment from Hokkaido to the ring with two frigate/galleon combinations on constant rotation. I realize we could use more frigates once we go to war with Bizzy but for now it should be good enough. We should be able to get a couple more frigates coming from Hokkaido to protect that area. He doesn't have a lot that I can see anyway. I figure one galleon is good enough to shuttle units from BT to the ring. We're not producing them that quickly. The rest can be used to bombard defenses from the shore and to land right next to a coastal city. For those brave enough, we could try amphibious assaults. Some Cmbt II/Amphibious combinations might be worth considering.I suggest we build only pikes, crossbows,or cannons in most of our cities. Grennies or cannons in Kyoto. LBMs and musketmen can't be upgraded since we'll never get Rifling. So crossbows are the best choice for garrison units. Build them, give them CG promotions, and then upgrade them to a grennie and stick them in a city. We have a handful of cavalry now from upgrading knights and war elephants. Use them for pillaging. I wouldn't bother to build more unless we lose some. Avoid fights when possible and just use them to gain us more gold for the coffers, plus deny well developed territory to settlers. Of course, a larger navy couldn't hurt.
Anyway, have fun guys. I hope to see us almost finished by the time it gets back around to me.
Here's the detailed turnlog:
Spoiler :
Here's the latest save: Current Save
Current Roster:
bobrath -> UP
namliaM -> on deck
Cosmichail
pigswill
LuvToBuild -> just played
eektor -> autoskip
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