SGOTM 02 - VQ Black

[bobrath]

Looks good. One thing we need to keep in the back of our mind is that we're going to need to be on the sea asap. Caravels to find the other civs and then galleons to get our samurai active while they are superior/equal. Its not a tiny window, but one we need to take full advantage of. This is a conquest only game after all.

I'm not a TGL player, but I've seen the power it brings. Our capital is a research monster now (woot), so if it will speed our path to optics and astronomy, then we should do it.

That being said, I hope we're labeling/signing the forests that are prechopped and make sure that this cross player project is done correctly. Since Math makes thos chops more effective then lets blaze to that. From there construction before machinery since cats can negate the cultural defense that Izzy will have built up.

War with Izzy... lets be smart on which cities we keep. We're not going to have to worry about another civ settling behind us right away and we will have maint issues (thinking longer term). Heck ideally we get an armada full of cats and samurai out there and just go viking on other civs!

 

[eektor]

I think we should get this continent completely settled and then we can raze the rest.

I would say it would be best to keep most of the Spanish cities we can when we take her out. We should build more workers though so we could chop the courthouses (if we can) or just do basic improvements to get the Spanish cities up and running ASAP.

 

[pigswill]

Decent sized cities we're better off whipping than chopping for courthouses. But still , that ain't an immediate issue. Debating about getting another worker. I'll build roads on pre-chopped forests.

I agree with namliaM about beating up spanish before they get longbows (usually an AI priority).

 

[bobrath]

roads... you don't have to take the extra time to put them down - just drop a sign on them OR screenshot and mark em up in paint.

 

[Cosmichail]

Just looked at save again and Izzy has Oracle and two shrines. (confused/hindu shrines) Oracle is in Madrid. Cordoba is the copper/confused city and is a good city (better than I thought). The pyramids/parthenon/chichen Itza all have been built but the TGL is not in the list. So that means we still can get it. Barcelona/seville are in the jungle and would need a lot of workers. Izzy has a total of five cities and most are worth keeping except Toledo. What a stupid spot that city is settled in.

Temple of Solomon has been built in a distant land.

I do find the AI tends not to go for lit too quick so I think we still have a good chance to get TGL. I agree Bob putting up signs is a good idea to mark where we prechopped.

Checked one other thing:

Production in Osaka is 21 right now. We could build a mine there on plains add 4 hammers. Have a citizen to work it right now too. Right now our base prod is 14 * 50%=21 with another 4 hammers would be 18 * 50% = 27 hammers. TGL is 350 hammers so with 27 hammers (350:27=13 turns) however I noticed with the research it's more beakers than stated in the technology screen. (a modifier for monarch?)+50%

As swords in the unit screen is 40 hammers but in a city is 60 hammers. So considering this TGL might be 525 hammers:27 = 19/20 turns. With a few chops on math will drop below 10. After that Osaka will pump out swords every three turns. We still have one pop left in Osaka and could be used for a cottage or scientist whichever serves us better. (once it grows)

 

[bobrath]

Remember this is epic (and thus the increased cost)?

 

[pigswill]

True; with epic its more turns but the same number of years.
You prefer signs? Signs it shall be.

 

[namliaM]

The beakers from a scientist/specialist multiply with the buildings? Hmz... Something learned ...

TGL is 350 hammers which with chops

Thats on normal speed, try 525 on epic and we dont have Marble...

As for war... Do we want/need cats if we (can) have Samurais? Realisticaly how far away are we from Sams? and How far away is Bella from LBs?

I would rather trade alpha since there is no one else there but we can't since it's not available to her.

Totaly confused me here? Not available to her? Meaning she cant trade or cant get Alphabet?

The only city I really like is Barcelona (just for the shrine and Madrid)

Actually Bella allready has 2 shrines....
1 Yep workers we need, maybe we capture some from Bella?
2 Construction vs Machinery
3 and Sheep/wheat town

I like the roads tho, this means when you return to chop 1 turn, your not losing a turn on moving in... Offcourse you are investing in building the road...

 

[bobrath]

Since Alpha doesn't appear on our side of the trade screen, that means either Izzy already has it OR she's lacking a prereq tech for Alpha.

Samurai require Machinery research, Cats require Construction. Not sure that either is avail *right now* for research. Flip side to your question tho is which is more cost efficient at taking cultural defense + archers?

 

[Cosmichail]

Thats on normal speed, try 525 on epic and we dont have Marble...

Brought that up in my last post but still only 19/20 turns in Osaka and with chops a lot faster.

Also noted the shrines/oracle too.

I don't think Izzy has alpha since before we got it she didn't have the techs listed for trade.

Construction will be available after math (5 turns) construction 9 turns.

MC is available now with something like 12 turns and Machinery like 22 turns.

 

[pigswill]

I have to admit that in my last couple of games I've been making extensive use of CR cannon and artillery with far better results than CR rifles/ grenadiers/ infantry. So I'm now wondering if this would also apply to cats. There certainly is a gap between cats and cannon which would be plugged nicely by samurai. Cats do need defending but can also strip culture defences/ walls before attacking.

 

[namliaM]

I have to admit that in my last couple of games I've been making extensive use of CR cannon and artillery with far better results than CR rifles/ grenadiers/ infantry. So I'm now wondering if this would also apply to cats. There certainly is a gap between cats and cannon which would be plugged nicely by samurai. Cats do need defending but can also strip culture defences/ walls before attacking.

A CR Catapult can be a very powerfull weapon... I had a CR3 C2 Catapult once.... It was unstoppable...

 

[bobrath]

A CR Catapult can be a very powerfull weapon... I had a CR3 C2 Catapult once.... It was unstoppable...

Only problem is getting enough "easy" wins out of the way that you have enough exp to be unstoppable!

 

[pigswill]

ok. Enough talk. Time to play some turns. Settle ironclams, attack barbcity and keep, mine in Osaka, mine and workboat in ironclams; if any time left prechop for GLib. Techwise finish lit then maths (?masonry) construction.

 

[pigswill]

An interesting set of turns to be sure. I suspect I could have played them better but we're still in one piece.

Turn 1. 275ad
Build sword in Osaka, start sword. Barb archer approaching Tokyo from south.

Turn2. 290ad.
Research literature, start mathematics (100%,-23 gpt). Barb archer attacks axe and loses. Taoism founded in Cordoba, Izzy has been busy researching philosophy rather than heading towards feudalism. Still unwilling to tech trade.

Turn 3. 305ad.
Kyoto starts National Epic. Osaka stops sword, starts worker. Forgot about chopping inTokyo, settler in one turn. Barbarian galley parks on top of clams.

Turn 4. 365ad.
Tokyo completes settler, starts spear. Head settler to ironclams. Head worker to Osaka for mining.

Turn 5. 335ad. zzzz

Turn 6. 350ad. zzzz

Turn 7. 365ad.
Research mathematics, start masonry. Research 100%, running low on money. Isabella swops to Confucianism, becomes officially annoyed with us, closes borders (no great loss). Osaka finishes worker, goes to mine. resumes sword. Tokyo finishes spear, starts sword.

Turn 8. 380ad.
Osaka finishes sword, starts Glib. Workers finish mine, move to woods.

Turn 9. 395 ad.
Stackette (axe, three swords) arrive at barb city; defended by 4 archers and wall. Attack! Lose 1 sword, 2 win and get promotions. Ironclam city founded, known officially as Satsuma. Start workboat. Barb galley has moved up to Osaka. Finish researching masonry, starts construction; 5gp in bank, research to 70%, 10 turns for construction.

Turn 10. 410ad.
Army outside barb city retreats (crap odds even with CR2 promotions; swords injured). Commander honourably takes his own life as cannot live with the shame of defeat. Quite right too. Edo whips a lighthouse, starts workboat.

Turn 11. 425ad.
Isabella demands gems in exchange for nothing. We suggest suitable orifice. Isabella declares war!! (Was it something I said?). Stack starts moving towards Osaka (given up on barb city (for now)).

Turn 12. 440ad.
Great Scientist born in Kyoto, volunteers to research philosphy. Declined. Awaiting further instructions in Kyoto. Workers chop forest in Osaka (67 hammers towards GLib). Tokyo builds sword, starts axe. barb warrior appears in south. barb archer from barb city.

Turn 13. 455ad. zzzz,

Turn 14. 470ad.
barb archer suicides on archer (promotion). barb warrior suicides on archer. Isabella changes to theocracy (revolting).

Turn 15. 485ad.
We meet Bismark (border to south east of Kyoto). neutral. Willing to trade (at a profit).He's got currency, monarchy, calender. But decided to put off tradesfor moment.Also need to think about open borders. Bismark no contact with Isabella. I switch Kyoto to archer (no hammers yet). Our stackette almost back at Osaka, pormoted spear to medic, all swords to CR. 4 turns to construction. Another 67 hammer chop for Glib, now 9 turns away. No sign of Isabella's army yet.

Save on Results page.

Maybe I could have swopped to Confucianism and given Isabella gems; but I guess its a personality trait that I don't like giving into threats.

 

[Cosmichail]

Yep me too Pigswill. Good on getting the Glib started and hopefully with more chops will get built fast enough to line up with construction and get cats rolling. Izzy doesn't have much last time I scanned her lands. Don't expect much yet maybe when she gets built up. We should target her Confucian city first as that might force her back to Hinduism and be a nice lady again.

It would be nice to get currency/monarchy off Bismarck as that would help a lot. I guess that'll be up to the next player LuvtoBuild.

Roster: (15 turns )

bobrath -- Black Leader -- --> keeping the game moving
namliaM -- --> The official whipping expert (makes my brain hurt)
Cosmichail --> --> Izzy's head on a stick LuvtoBuild please
Pigswill --> just played --> Got us Satsuma but suffered defeat at barb city and meets some German guy
LuvtoBuild -->UP--> Will he turn to the dark side? (Darth Build will get Izzy)
Eektor --> on deck -->Offered the brilliant idea of moving the palace

 

[LuvToBuild]

...Isabella declares war!! ...

Oh great Well I can't say I'm surprised. I noticed in the last save that she had Confucianism in more cities than she had Hinduism and she appeared to have a Confucian missionary headed north. She was probably just looking for an excuse anyway.

Anyway, I've got it but I'll probably wait to play until tomorrow night.

 

[Cosmichail]

Ach don't worry LuvtoBuild she's as weak as a kitty. If we accelerate the GL with chops and get Osaka building soldiers (every 3 turns) she doesn't stand a chance and we aren't that far off from construction for cats. Actually good timing as she wasn't much help anyways. Bismarck might be nice to trade for currency/monarchy. Maybe hold off on calender so we can pop the borders in Satsuma with obelisk or get a missionary over there since we have hindu monastery. Once we get into position to attack we do have the cover of jungle to help us.

What might help her seek peace is taking that small force Pigswill has coming to Osaka and raze Toledo.

 

[namliaM]

Peace? Whats this peace thing? Bella must go ! 2 shrines and 3 holy citys Yummie!

The earlier we lose her, the better it is... Those cities will not be high in upkeep and can pay for themselves of the water.

I had a quick look at the save. Suggest getting OBs with Bismark ASAP and start exploring there are likely to be more AIs.
Dont know if we should trade allready... maybe we should wait a little till we meet some more AI and get an idea of their tech...
Bismark doesnt seem (to) far ahead...

We need a Granary in Kyoto ASAP as well as in Edo and we need to found NARA on the stone Island. We need to ensure our safety there now so we need some more whipable places to produce some galleys and maybe one or 2 Axe after we get Forges in..., or would it be smart to declare war on Bismark and have him capture those cities? thats 10gpt in upkeep we have no need of paying anymore?!

 

[pigswill]

One more chop and Glib will be done in 6 turns (i.e. by time we've chopped). There's an iron mine in Satsuma waiting to be developed (there's also barbarians nearby). By this time cats will be available; my suggestion would be to build cats almost exclusively in all main island cities (can we give Osaka island a name?).