SGOTM 03 - Maintenance Thread

[culdeus]

New to SGOTM:

What if you have the first player move the scout and then save there? Can saving in the middle of the turn be allowed?

 

[BLubmuz]

i think it is, but is useless.
just move the scout, take a SS and close.

after the discussion you load the initial save and repeat the same move.
i suppose all teams do so.

 

[Niklas]

Oh please no, I would suppose and hope that all teams do what culdeus suggested, save and continue from after the move. Otherwise you are violating the rules!

AFAIU a load (i.e. a higher number in the save) is in itself not a bad thing, as long as the cases where those reloads have been made are clearly documented. The point of counting reloads is to stop cheating by replay, but if you have a good reason for loading that the staff will be able to see then there's no problem.

 

[Thrallia]

yes, don't replay the scout movements...even if you don't upload the save and just upload a SS, you should definitely save it at that point if you are going to close Civ down.

 

[AlanH]

i think it is, but is useless.
just move the scout, take a SS and close.

after the discussion you load the initial save and repeat the same move.
i suppose all teams do so.

No! No! NO!

Why do you feel the need to reload the starting save, unless you are going to make an illegal, different move?

Unless your computer crashes .....

- You do NOT replay any move.

- You save immediately before you quit.

- You quit.

- You reload the save you created immediately before you quit.

- You never reload a save earlier than the one you made when you quit!!!

- .... and that includes the starting save.

Please tell me why this is a problem?

 

[civ_steve]

i think it is, but is useless.
just move the scout, take a SS and close.

after the discussion you load the initial save and repeat the same move.
i suppose all teams do so.

This violates the rules! The only acceptable reason to reload to replay moves is because of system crash; in this case you should have your settings set as ainwood stated so you reload from the beginning of the turn, and make the same plays you've done up to the point of the crash, and then continue your turn. And definitely note this occurance in your turn log; you risk your team being disqualifed otherwise.

culdeus is correct (Niklas and Thrallia as well). Take the SS and save at that point. Discuss. Load that save and resume.

 

[BLubmuz]

My ...
sorry, ash on my head .

I didn't faintly suppose this violates the rules.
It's 1 move on the first turn, that will be carefully repeated in the actual TS.

But ... as rules ARE rules, i'll do what you suggest.

side note:
the rules are made to avoid cheating (although based on honour, if a player wanna cheat, he'll do, just reload the downloaded save) ... IMHO what i suggested can be against the rules, but no one can consider it cheating, then why don't consider the rules in a more ... ehm flexible way?

 

[AlanH]

side note:
the rules are made to avoid cheating (although based on honour, if a player wanna cheat, he'll do, just reload the downloaded save) ... IMHO what i suggested can be against the rules, but no one can consider it cheating, then why don't consider the rules in a more ... ehm flexible way?

What does making a save cost you? Two key strokes ... Control-S, Enter. Why do anything else? For the sake of two keystrokes, let's eliminate any doubt. If you never reload an old save then you and we will both *know* you have never changed an outcome.

 

[MightyGooga]

I dont think we should trust people repeating the exact same move if you re load a erlier save game. That gives a lot of room for cheating, also, people wont remember and there will be comunication failure. Even if its possible for the administrator to find about that, its hard to keep track. So lets just dont do it.

 

[DaviddesJ]

What does making a save cost you? Two key strokes ... Control-S, Enter. Why do anything else? For the sake of two keystrokes, let's eliminate any doubt. If you never reload an old save then you and we will both *know* you have never changed an outcome.

I don't object to these rules, but it is a gross exaggeration to claim that such a procedure eliminates any possibility of replaying. There are still plenty of easy ways to do that.

I think it's easy to go overboard with rules that add hassle without having any significant benefit.

Whenever I play a SGOTM, I'm likely to load the save file, look around, doing nothing, and come back later to actually play the turns. Probably several times. I'm willing to go through the process of loading, doing nothing, and saving, several times per session. But I don't really think it adds much.

 

[Kodii]

There haven't been any problems with the rules in the past two SGOTMs, I don't think there is a reason to create problems for this SGOTM. Even though it is easy to start at the beginning of the save to replay what has happened, it is obvious that you shouldn't. One of the concepts at RB is to play "honorably". That is, to play so that you don't cheat others, or yourself. The idea of the SGOTMs is not to find ways around the rules, but to abide by them. I don't see why this discussion has to go any further, so I think it is best to just drop it.

 

[pigswill]

I agree with Kodii

 

[culdeus]

Sorry for the trainwreck. I merely wanted to know if the save would be flagged for a restart if it was opened twice at 4000BC.

Sorry

 

[civ_steve]

...

Whenever I play a SGOTM, I'm likely to load the save file, look around, doing nothing, and come back later to actually play the turns. Probably several times. ...

This is actually legitimate; if nothing is moved and nothing is changed in any of the cities, and no deals are made with the AI, if all you do is open and look around, you can close without saving, and reopen from the original save later. It is safer to make a new save, and if you use the default save name it will overwrite the existing save creating no new files.

 

[Sweetacshon]

This is actually legitimate; if nothing is moved and nothing is changed in any of the cities, and no deals are made with the AI, if all you do is open and look around, you can close without saving, and reopen from the original save later. It is safer to make a new save, and if you use the default save name it will overwrite the existing save creating no new files.

Technically (disregarding the honour system for a moment), how is this different than opening the save, moving a scouting unit, closing without saving, and then reloading the original save? Scratch that... I assume everything is logged, including moves?? So if a game was "audited" the discrepancy would be found??

I am just unsure, as if the above is not the case, then isn't the honour system of assuming no moves are made on an "analysis" save opening the same as the honour sytem whereby a move would be repeated as it was previously (disregarding ones that involve a RNG)?

 

[Niklas]

IMO we should not keep this discussion up at all. This is one of those things were too much public scrutiny will only mean that people are more likely to find ways around the system if they have such intentions.

 

[Gyathaar]

After reading the GOTM13 pregame discussion, I decided to update the starting picture so it shows the blue circles for the settler.
Dont know if it will help your discussions any

 

[Ronnie1]

Can we now assume that HOF version .009 will be required for this game as well?

 

[MightyGooga]

There haven't been any problems with the rules in the past two SGOTMs, I don't think there is a reason to create problems for this SGOTM. Even though it is easy to start at the beginning of the save to replay what has happened, it is obvious that you shouldn't. One of the concepts at RB is to play "honorably". That is, to play so that you don't cheat others, or yourself. The idea of the SGOTMs is not to find ways around the rules, but to abide by them. I don't see why this discussion has to go any further, so I think it is best to just drop it.

Tottaly agree with that.

 

[AlanH]

Can we now assume that HOF version .009 will be required for this game as well?

Yes, for Civ4 vanilla, unless any unforseen circumstances arise. I did emphasise that this was likely. See post #3. There will also be a version .002 for Warlords.

The new versions and release notes are available here