SGOTM 03 - Maintenance Thread

[AlanH]

Alan, you can find the save in our thread...

Transparent

We ran out of colors again

[UPDATE] No, we didn't run out of colours, as we have 22 teams, the same as SGOTM 2. However, the graph plotting script counted New Vanilla as a separate team, because there was a start file for them.I've fixed that, and all the team colours have moved down one team from New Warlords down. Sorry

 

[AlanH]

Alan, you can find the save in our thread...

For Everyone's Information:

You can't upload a 4000 BC file to the server for your team to look at, as the server rejects it. There can only be one 4000 BC file for each team, and that's the one we gave you. If you *must* give a saved file at 4000 BC to the team (why? ) then you'll have to attach it to your thread.

And PLEASE get this into your heads: You only play forward from one copy of the save. You do NOT play multiple attempts from the same or different saves. NO RELOADING.

 

[The Duff Man]

I could not get the upload to work from either my home or work computer? I have posted the save in our thread.

 

[AlanH]

PLEASE NOTE.

It is becoming apparent that several team members are playing turns in parallel with their teams, and thereby obtaining prior knowledge of the map and events. This is clearly and explicitly forbidden in the SGOTM rules and must cease.

Most of you are playing honourably and fairly, but there are a few whose behaviour is an insult to the efforts we make to provide a fair competition.

This is a FINAL WARNING. From now on, players do this are in danger of being disqualified from the competition, and possibly disqualifying the whole team.

Any information that a player has previously obtained in this way must not be used to influence the team's strategy.

 

[Wanderer]

Is the right place to mention that I'm having issues with the HOF mod for the SGOTM? Anyone else, or is it just me?

 

[AlanH]

Is the right place to mention that I'm having issues with the HOF mod for the SGOTM? Anyone else, or is it just me?

Sure, if you can do so without giving any spoiler information. If not, send a PM to me or Gyathaar.

 

[Wanderer]

Not spolier since I don't have a game save yet

I'm trying to load a test save one of our team members created, and get the following message:

Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library

Runtime Error!

Program: ...mes\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Warlords\Civ4Warlords.exe

The application has requested the runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact the application's support team for more information.

 

[Wanderer]

Seems like a user error - I haven't played civ in a while, and didn't know/notice that Walords had been patched *blush*

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=3344

 

[AlanH]

The most likely explanation is that you have the wrong version of the HoF Mod for that test save.

[EDIT] X-posted - OK, the wrong software version would do it as well

 

[Wanderer]

After adding somem hair-colour to get rid of the blondeness, and then Patching worlords to 2.08, suddenly it works Doh!!

PS: sorry for the unnecessary waste of time for you, and thanks for the response

 

[LKendter]

It is becoming apparent that several team members are playing turns in parallel with their teams, and thereby obtaining prior knowledge of the map and events. This is clearly and explicitly forbidden in the SGOTM rules and must cease.

I am assuming this is a lot more then another player opening up the save to offer advice. As far as I understand that is perfectly valid. In fact, when it comes to things such as dot mapping it is almost needed.

 

[AlanH]

@LKendter: Your assumption and understanding are both correct. You don't obtain prior knowledge by opening an existing save, as long as you make no moves or changes.

 

[da_Vinci]

PLEASE NOTE.

It is becoming apparent that several team members are playing turns in parallel with their teams, and thereby obtaining prior knowledge of the map and events. This is clearly and explicitly forbidden in the SGOTM rules and must cease.

Is it safe to assume that the persons and/or teams involved have also been informed individually, so that those who have not had such individual notifications can be assured that they are not perceived to be in the group of violators?

I see one grey area that could use some clarification. Opening the save, opening a city, and looking at how alternative tile assignments would affect production and research rates seems to be different from making moves, deals, etc. and strikes me as being OK. A member might then advise in discussion that "we should work XXX kind of tiles to speed the rate at which we get YYY". Since one could calculate this by hand without changing the worked tiles on the screen, seems to me not a violation (doing easier what you already could do the hard way seems to be what the HOF mod is a lot about). But you may disagree.

If you don't want the off-turn members looking at tiles this way, then is it OK for the on-turn player to look at options, post screenshots of them, and ask the team for opinions?

dV

 

[Niklas]

@dV: What you describe is perfectly fine. The rule could be expressed as, don't do anything irrevocable. Changing tile allocations is revocable, you could just switch them right back again. Moving a unit, settling a town, accepting a deal with an AI, etc, these are all irrevocable and may not be done.

 

[AlanH]

Is it safe to assume that the persons and/or teams involved have also been informed individually, so that those who have not had such individual notifications can be assured that they are not perceived to be in the group of violators?

Correct ... if they've read their PMs.

I see one grey area that could use some clarification. Opening the save, opening a city, and looking at how alternative tile assignments would affect production and research rates seems to be different from making moves, deals, etc. and strikes me as being OK. A member might then advise in discussion that "we should work XXX kind of tiles to speed the rate at which we get YYY". Since one could calculate this by hand without changing the worked tiles on the screen, seems to me not a violation (doing easier what you already could do the hard way seems to be what the HOF mod is a lot about). But you may disagree.

If you don't want the off-turn members looking at tiles this way, then is it OK for the on-turn player to look at options, post screenshots of them, and ask the team for opinions?

dV

It's not a grey area. I'm sure I've stated this before, and I don't know how to make it any clearer. If you are not the active player you can do anything in the save that is reversible without reloading.

Reallocating a citizen is reversible because you can change it back and have no effect on the game. Looking at a diplo screen or the adviser screens is reversible, and are therefore acceptable.

Making a deal or changing unit orders or moving a unit or hitting end of turn are irreversible, and are therefore forbidden.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Making a deal or changing unit orders or moving a unit or hitting end of turn are irreversible, and are therefore forbidden.

Changing unit orders, for a unit that's already moved, is reversible. I don't know why you would want to do this, though.

 

[AlanH]

As a PS to my warning above:

Please don't replay other team members' turnsets, either as a shadow at the time, or immediately afterwards. You have no guarantee that you will precisely match the live player's moves and decisions, and as a result you may discover information that is not found by the live player.

 

[AlanH]

Changing unit orders, for a unit that's already moved, is reversible. I don't know why you would want to do this, though.

Is there not some trick with workers to start a road and then stop it to get a part build? However, I guess as long as you don't then move it you haven't changed anything that gives you new information.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Is there not some trick with workers to start a road and then stop it to get a part build? However, I guess as long as you don't then move it you haven't changed anything that gives you new information.

If you give a new order to a unit that has already moved, it doesn't do any new work until the next turn. You could change its orders back and forth with no irreversible effects.

 

[AlanH]

Fairy Nuff. I'll edit my post.