dojoboy
Tsalagi
~lurker comment:
Plus, you could pillage the gold and raze it - if you don't like the location.
SGOTM 03 - Smurkz
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
~lurker comment:
Plus, you could pillage the gold and raze it - if you don't like the location.
the 'No city razing would prevent that... I think.
"No Razing" is turned on in this one, so that really makes this game tough IMO.
Sounds good so far, and I think it was good that you stopped here for discussion. I can't check the save now though, I'm not on a computer that runs CIV. Any chance someone could put up a (one or more) screen shot(s) of the situation at hand?
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
I completely agree on the need to fogbust our island. If we can manage that, then we do not need any archers or other advanced military for a while. And no, we cannot raze any towns, including the barb ones.
Settling NW of the stone would miss the clams. I think the choice is really between N of stone and W of stone. These are the only locations that grab the rice, the stone, the clams and most of the hills.
W of stone is probably better in the long run (more land tiles), so that would get my vote.
Our scout defends with 120% bonus (75% terrain, 25% fortify, 20% woodsman) for a defense value of 2.2. That gives a 68% win chance against the barb warrior that attacks at 2, unless there is bonus vs barbs that I am missing. This is not very good IMO. Our warrior would defend at 3.5 on a forested hill (75% bonus) even when unfortified, for a massive 98% win chance. So on this turn I would move the scout, warrior and settler to the forested hill just SW of where the scout is now. On the next turn, move the whole group to the forested hill where the scout currently is, and settle on the turn after.
If at some point we encounter the barb warrior again, then we can simply fortify and await the attack. (Note that it would be unwise to settle in this case, because we would lose the forest defense.) In the unlikely case that our warrior dies, the scout will still prevent the settler from being captured, and we can return them to Mozcow for safety.
Settling NW of the stone would miss the clams. I think the choice is really between N of stone and W of stone. These are the only locations that grab the rice, the stone, the clams and most of the hills.
W of stone is probably better in the long run (more land tiles), so that would get my vote.
Our scout defends with 120% bonus (75% terrain, 25% fortify, 20% woodsman) for a defense value of 2.2. That gives a 68% win chance against the barb warrior that attacks at 2, unless there is bonus vs barbs that I am missing. This is not very good IMO. Our warrior would defend at 3.5 on a forested hill (75% bonus) even when unfortified, for a massive 98% win chance. So on this turn I would move the scout, warrior and settler to the forested hill just SW of where the scout is now. On the next turn, move the whole group to the forested hill where the scout currently is, and settle on the turn after.
If at some point we encounter the barb warrior again, then we can simply fortify and await the attack. (Note that it would be unwise to settle in this case, because we would lose the forest defense.) In the unlikely case that our warrior dies, the scout will still prevent the settler from being captured, and we can return them to Mozcow for safety.
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
Sure. The settler is under the warrior 2N of Mozcow. And the barb is partially obscured by the buggy screenshot window:
Spoiler :
Humf shame on me, I need to undergo mapping 101
Clearly W has my vote too, if we want production (which is what we plan).
Marc Aurel
Philosopher Emperor
I think we can manage the barb. Just don't attack yourself. Barbs are not that intelligent that they fortify on a good tile. I think we will see the barb attacking our scout next turn. Normally our scout should survive. He is a woodman and fortified on a forest hill. If surprisingly the barb wins he should be haevily wounded, so that our warrior shall be able to finish him off. Just make sure you check the winning odds by mouseover before you counterattack. Keeping the settler in safe distance IMHO will be OK.
I also agree to fogbust the island in our 'No city razing'.
I also agree to fogbust the island in our 'No city razing'.
I think zyxy's scheme seems best for handling this warrior. 68% chance is not good enough for me. And settling W of the stone may not be perfect, but I definitely don't see anything better.
I think warriors for fogbusting should be a priority from now on. The threat of barbie towns upsetting our dotmaps is a severe one, we should avoid it at all costs. WBs can wait, we have the ones that we really need for now.
I think warriors for fogbusting should be a priority from now on. The threat of barbie towns upsetting our dotmaps is a severe one, we should avoid it at all costs. WBs can wait, we have the ones that we really need for now.
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
One more thought: our worker can of course follow the settler stack and start chopping and mining the hills just outside the new town. This will help to get a few warriors out quickly, and mines are better than forests anyway.
Ok, two thoughts: the new town doesn't have any good food tiles until we start chopping jungle and irrigating. So I would probably just work a no-food-high-production tile until we get a three food tile available.
Well, three really: to get the new town rolling I would probably research Agri next. There are two grass tiles in the first nine that we can irrigate.
I agree Writing is high priority too, and I think it should perhaps come immediately after Agri.
Ok, two thoughts: the new town doesn't have any good food tiles until we start chopping jungle and irrigating. So I would probably just work a no-food-high-production tile until we get a three food tile available.
Well, three really: to get the new town rolling I would probably research Agri next. There are two grass tiles in the first nine that we can irrigate.
I agree Writing is high priority too, and I think it should perhaps come immediately after Agri.
CliftonBazaar
Prince
I regret to say that I will have to withdraw; I'm sorry but I cannot afford the time needed to properly be part of the team - and that's not fair on the rest of the team 
I played SGOTM2, and while I played with some very good people, severly underestimated the time neccesary.
I've got a wife and 2 kids and with Christmas coming up you can imagine how stressful it is!
I originally only wanted to be a lurker but I'm a hands on player (I HATE only watching) - luking annoys me
Please note that I will keep an eye on this thread and will stay as a lurker (which means I won't be looking at any other threads)
James
I played SGOTM2, and while I played with some very good people, severly underestimated the time neccesary.
I've got a wife and 2 kids and with Christmas coming up you can imagine how stressful it is!
I originally only wanted to be a lurker but I'm a hands on player (I HATE only watching) - luking annoys me
Please note that I will keep an eye on this thread and will stay as a lurker (which means I won't be looking at any other threads)
James
Too bad Clifton, but fully understandable. Stay on lurking, drop the occasional comment, and we hope to see you back in full after the new year when the family silly season has ended. 
I can see the case for Agri, but I would really want to see Writing soon too for the whipped library in Mozcow. Agri is half the cost of Writing though, and wouldn't take many turns to research, 10 at most. How long until we get IW, how long until the worker completes the mine on the forested hill? I guess not long enough for the latter for IW + Writing + Agri to complete, so I guess Agri first would be the better way to go.
I can see the case for Agri, but I would really want to see Writing soon too for the whipped library in Mozcow. Agri is half the cost of Writing though, and wouldn't take many turns to research, 10 at most. How long until we get IW, how long until the worker completes the mine on the forested hill? I guess not long enough for the latter for IW + Writing + Agri to complete, so I guess Agri first would be the better way to go.
Ok. Seems to me also that zyxy's proposal (scout + warrior) is the better one (I'd rather loose one turn than loosing scout or worse settler...). I'll go for that.
W of stone seems to be best choice for everyone, so I'll do that also.
Agri... Well. I feel more on Writing+Alphabet since we should be rolling on trades. No one knows each other now and we should meet other civs pretty fast (hope so). Chopping should allow us to get an obelisk, which would allow working clams after expansion... Anyway IW is not really ending soon, so we still have some time.
Ok I'll play the next 2 or 3 turns to give feedback and see what is happening.
Next question: I keep warrior in Moscow for now (fogbust) but granary might also be an option (whipping craziness). Ideas ? We'll decide after next warrior...
On a side note, CliftonBazaar you'll be missed here so please come by and drop comments, thoughts or whip us if we perform badly As a father of two young daughters, I get your point
W of stone seems to be best choice for everyone, so I'll do that also.
Agri... Well. I feel more on Writing+Alphabet since we should be rolling on trades. No one knows each other now and we should meet other civs pretty fast (hope so). Chopping should allow us to get an obelisk, which would allow working clams after expansion... Anyway IW is not really ending soon, so we still have some time.
Ok I'll play the next 2 or 3 turns to give feedback and see what is happening.
Next question: I keep warrior in Moscow for now (fogbust) but granary might also be an option (whipping craziness). Ideas ? We'll decide after next warrior...
On a side note, CliftonBazaar you'll be missed here so please come by and drop comments, thoughts or whip us if we perform badly
As a father of two young daughters, I get your point I vote writing then alphabet with the whipped obelisk providing clams as the course concerning city2. I haven't looked at a save, but I'm pretty sure we have a scouting WB out, right? If we do, we'll be meeting other civs by the bucketload soon enough...
We can't get an obelisk in our second town since we don't have Mysticism!
Just letting you all know, I'm here, but this week is finals week, so you're not going to hear from me much. Everything seems good so far, though I regret I can't take the time to look at the save and actively participate. Thursday night is my last final, so I'm good after that.
Grmf, after mapping 101, I need Science 101...
Anyway...
1930 BC (8)
Move scout, settler and warrior to forested hill>Exploration goes on, and we find... Victoria. Moscow is working Fish and FP (cottage expansion). Would have wanted to move newly produced warrior N for aggressive fogbusting, but he willbe soon needed for angriness control so... Worker road building towards new future city.
1900 BC (9)
Barb on forested hill where we want to settle. Everyone fortifies and wait. Judaism is discoverd elsewhere.
1870 BC (10)
Fight is won !! (well that was expected...). Moving warrior and settler towards future city location. Scout sent ahead forfogbusting. Ghandi adopts orgrel
1840 BC (11)
Kiev is founded. Warrior fortifies. Scout moves N and find... new barb. Worker moves to forested hill for road+chop+mine I guess.
1810 BC (12)
Victory is mine again !! Healing too...
1780 BC (13)
Well Exploration has to take another pathsince British are blocking my way. Do not want to declare war on them, which could prevent us for diplo wins... Should I have done that ? There are other places to go, so let's do this.
1750 BC (14)
Nothing.
1720 BC (15)
Chopping started in Kiev.
1690 BC (16)
Moszcow cultural borders expand.
1660 BC (17)
IW working completed....
I stop here, for us to do whatever we decide after that. Strong decisions are waiting. So let's make choices
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/99729/Smurkz_BC-1660.Civ4SavedGame
So some conclusions from my side:
- Island close to us SW seems pretty sweet (iron,clams and good land...)
- we missed Iron in our production city (I hate that): Proof that dotmapping is hard. We definitly need to fogbust, and I would like AH before net city is settled (joking, well nearly joking).
- not much happened, I fear that we are not going fast enough... I really want Writing+Alphabet fast for trading low-tech stuff. Other option is going Oracle for Slingshot, but we would need to work on that now (meaning masonry nearly required to get that stone).
- Do we go settler next (whipped) in Moscow ?
- Island close to us SW seems pretty sweet (iron,clams and good land...)
- we missed Iron in our production city (I hate that): Proof that dotmapping is hard. We definitly need to fogbust, and I would like AH before net city is settled
(joking, well nearly joking).- not much happened, I fear that we are not going fast enough... I really want Writing+Alphabet fast for trading low-tech stuff. Other option is going Oracle for Slingshot, but we would need to work on that now (meaning masonry nearly required to get that stone).
- Do we go settler next (whipped) in Moscow ?
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
Alright, well done!
Really a shame about the iron, but it couldn't be helped.
The next citizen in Mozcow will be unhappy, but just keep it growing - we can whip another settler for three citizens in a short while.
I agree that settling the small SW island would be nice, the plains hill 4W 3S of Mozcow looks really good to me.
I don't think Oracle is very useful. And we would need marble to build it fast.
Our worker will be busy for another 15 turns or so, chopping and mining the two hills. So it looks like we could research Writing before we need Agri. It would help to get writing soon, because of the open borders. Also, Kiev could use a lib for the culture. I am not so sure about running to Alpha right away, because it is very expensive and there are a few cheap techs that are worth having very soon: Agri, Sailing, and perhaps AH.
I think we can fogbust our home island with 5 units, like this:
EDIT: well, this doesn't seem right. Apparently hilltop units cannot see two tiles away over forest or jungle. So we probably need a few more troops...
Really a shame about the iron, but it couldn't be helped.
The next citizen in Mozcow will be unhappy, but just keep it growing - we can whip another settler for three citizens in a short while.
I agree that settling the small SW island would be nice, the plains hill 4W 3S of Mozcow looks really good to me.
I don't think Oracle is very useful. And we would need marble to build it fast.
Our worker will be busy for another 15 turns or so, chopping and mining the two hills. So it looks like we could research Writing before we need Agri. It would help to get writing soon, because of the open borders. Also, Kiev could use a lib for the culture. I am not so sure about running to Alpha right away, because it is very expensive and there are a few cheap techs that are worth having very soon: Agri, Sailing, and perhaps AH.
I think we can fogbust our home island with 5 units, like this:
Spoiler :
EDIT: well, this doesn't seem right. Apparently hilltop units cannot see two tiles away over forest or jungle. So we probably need a few more troops...
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