SGOTM 03 - Smurkz

[unkle]

Hum Niklas,

for several reason, I have to stop here for this round. Would it be ok to get someone else up for the next 20-23 turns ?
I can do the remaining 3 turns, but not before tomorrow, so maybe better getting someone for more than that.

I guess batchy was next, right ?

My vote is writing, a settler pretty fast and warriors to fog bust. And a library asap, boosting science and getting 2 scientists up. We need to leverage our abilities (expensive, ok, but philo requires wonders and/or specialists...)

Sorry for coming on that late next time I'll do better.

 

[Niklas]

Alright, you did well so far and I think you make the right decision to hand off.

But you are wrong about who's up - Roster:

• zyxy - Warming up
• Marc Aurel
• Niklas
• unkle - Just Played
• Methos - UP!
• battchy - On Deck!

@Methos: You know the drill!

 

[Methos]

Just letting you all know, I'm here, but this week is finals week, so you're not going to hear from me much. Everything seems good so far, though I regret I can't take the time to look at the save and actively participate. Thursday night is my last final, so I'm good after that.

Sorry Niklas, but there's no way I can get to this until after my last final on Thursday night. Can I get a swap with you battchy?

Edit: Just in case the terminology is different outside the States; finals are your ending test during a university semester. Niklas, your a professor, what do they call it in Sweden?

 

[unkle]

Just letting you all know, I'm here, but this week is finals week, so you're not going to hear from me much. Everything seems good so far, though I regret I can't take the time to look at the save and actively participate. Thursday night is my last final, so I'm good after that.

I am ok to wait friday, but switching inside the roster is another option. No ?

 

[battchy]

I can get to this tonight if needed...

B

EDIT: I've looked at the map and I have some questions/suggestions before I continue.

1) Currently, we are building warriors in both our cities. I would think that a Granary (or barracks for moscow) for both cities would be better suited, at least for Kiev since we have little excess food right now. I know many have thought that fogbusting is a priority, but I don't know that I agree. A free barb city, to me, would be a good thing. I think the odds of them building in a horrible place are small, from my experiences.

2) We are currently chopping a forest near Kiev which will finish chopping while we're building a warrior. Do we really want chopped forest production going into a warrior? (Kinda connected to item 1 above)

 

[battchy]

OK...well, I probably won't get to it now, tonight, given my questions and no opinions. I am good to go as soon as others opine.

B

 

[Niklas]

@Methos: Sorry, I completely forgot about that, or I would have swapped you.

Just in case the terminology is different outside the States; finals are your ending test during a university semester. Niklas, your a professor, what do they call it in Sweden?

... ahem, sorry. But gee, I wish, professor at 27, that would have been a grand feat indeed! How ever did I fool you into thinking that? I'm just a lowly PhD student, I have many miles to walk until I get there, if ever.

But to answer your question, we have finals too, we call them much the same thing although in Swedish (sluttenta = final exam or end exam). I've just sent off my own contribution to the printers (I'm course responsible for a course in database systems), my final for the year will be on Monday (although of course I won't have to actually do anything, just walk around and answer questions ).

As a side note, I have a friend and fellow PhD student who once got a (ordinary) mail sent to him at work addressed with Professor. He's got it taped to the inside of the glass door into his office so everyone who passes by will see it.

 

[unkle]

@Battchy:

Granary in Moscow is one option (whipping more than ever)> Barracks seems not as useful since no real military (apart from Barbs maybe) is to forsee. In anycase Settler since a stronger priority to me (than Barracks).
Fogbusting the island would provide (only my opinion, of course):
- no funky barb city (sometimes you are surprised at where they settle...)
- no military needed (a fortified barb city on a hill can be tough)
So I am in favor of it.

So fast warrior production is in favor of that, of course.

Others ?

 

[zyxy]

Hey Clifton, sorry to see you leave. I hope you will at least stay around to lurk.

@battchy: I would advocate warriors first, for two reasons:
1) prevent any serious barb activity, so that we can stick to warrior defense for now.
2) prevent barb towns in bad places. There are very few good places to settle because of the difficult terrain.

Granaries are nice, but I think they can wait just a little bit. Mozcow is growing fine as it is, and Kiev will not be growing much until we get some farms up.

Does it matter what we use the chop for? It is just a fixed hammer bonus, isn't it? Or does the size of the bonus depend on the build?

... ahem, sorry. But gee, I wish, professor at 27, that would have been a grand feat indeed! How ever did I fool you into thinking that? I'm just a lowly PhD student, I have many miles to walk until I get there, if ever.

One difference is that in the US virtually everyone who teaches at a university is called professor. They come in the flavours full, associate and assistant. Only a full professor would be called professor in most European countries.

 

[Methos]

... ahem, sorry. But gee, I wish, professor at 27, that would have been a grand feat indeed! How ever did I fool you into thinking that? I'm just a lowly PhD student, I have many miles to walk until I get there, if ever.

Whoops, my mistake. I could have sworn I recall Niklas saying something about grading papers in one of our previous SGOTM's. I'm guessing that's not an error you mind me making.

One difference is that in the US virtually everyone who teaches at a university is called professor. They come in the flavours full, associate and assistant. Only a full professor would be called professor in most European countries.

Zyxy is correct, I've always heard them referred to as professors, even in the smaller universities (what we call colleges).

Since I'm already off-topic (and for those that remember from SGOTM2), this upcoming Tuesday we learn the gender of our soon-to-be! Sorry, I'm just really excited.

Sorry to see you go Clifton. Hope you continue on lurking mode. You can always jump back in when you're able.

 

[Niklas]

I definitely think warriors first. By zyxy's previous map we only need a few more to cover our entire island, we should really make the effort. A barbie town in the wrong place is not a bonus, it could be short term since it would alleviate the need for one settler, but that has to be weighed against the very-long-term loss that the misplaced town will mean.

Chopping is a fixed bonus no matter what, however there is a catch. Overflow will never go further than your next build. This means that if we are close to finishing a warrior, and chop a forest for some 30, we'll probably lose a few if we let the overflow go into another warrior since it costs only 22 in total. The other reason not to let the chop go to a warrior would be to instead chop for a worker or settler, but we should really let Mozcow take care of those, Kiev grows too slowly as it is.

@zyxy: Well, you are right of course, we also have assistant and associate professors but we would never dream of referring to them as just professor, without the qualifier. And even so, under the best circumstances I still have at least 3 years until I could hope to qualify for a position as assistant professor, if I choose to go that way. But yes, I do teach.

EDIT: Crosspost with Methos. You are right, I was reviewing a paper back then, they put us PhD students to do all manner of menial tasks. But of course they check us too, so that we don't write just anything in those reviews. Oh, and don't fret too much over that gender thing, it's not like you can affect the outcome any more.

 

[battchy]

So here's my mid-turn update...

0) 1660 - turn WB around to scout other way; stop worker chop on Kiev - move for future road build

1) 1630 - worker starts road build N of Kiev; move scout/wb; Moscow grows to 5 and gets

2) 1600 - scout around

3) 1570 - scout around

4) 1540 - warrior -> settler Moscow; move warrior N

5) 1510 - warrior -> warrior Kiev; move warriors N; move worker to Moscow for settler chop

6) 1480 - scout and enter

7) 1450 - WB has hit another border but only 3 from writing so wait for OB

8) 1420 - scout and enter

9) 1390 - scout and enter

10) 1360 - Writing discovered; Move scout that finds Barb (probably will be dead next turn); OB w/ all known civs; Chop forest for settler Moscow (5 turns to build); Save before entering.

Notes: Ghandi currently has 2 cities total. Alexander 3 total. Everyone else 4 total.

Questions: I've set research to Myst for obelisks next. Thoughts?



http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm3/Smurkz_SG003_BC1360_01.Civ4SavedGame

 

[unkle]

Ok no time now to look too close to the savefile, but so far so good.

I would not advise another chop in Moscow, since we do not have other options for production (yet ?) than forest. Whipping if required (not sure if it is now... To be decided) would be best.

Myst is a possibility (we would love obelisks in Kiev and next city). Again, Alphabet can also be good, or Sailing for ligthouse+settling new island. Not sure yet) where to go. I'd also love to get AH (cows, ok, but also not to miss horses if there are any).

Does anyone belive we have a chance on Pyramids ? I guess not, but I'd like to know what you guys think. Stone would help, for sure, and Rep+Philo can be very nice. Anyway this is a gamble...

More to come tonight.

 

[Methos]

Here's my 'got it', though I won't be able to look at it until after tonight.

 

[zyxy]

Well played, and good decision to sign OB's all around!

I think Myst can wait. I don't think the pyramids are really an option (we are very low on production), but it sure would be nice. The important techs IMO are Agri, Sailing, AH and Alpha.

I agree on no more forest chops in Mozcow. We can handbuild the current settler, and then whip the next for 3 pop. Or we could slot in another WB for scouting east.
Where do we settle our next towns?

 

[Niklas]

Umm, Methos, that wasn't a hand-off by battchy, just a mid-term wait-for-input.

I don't think Myst is a good option at this point. We have no real use for the Religious branch, other than possibly Monarchy, and I don't think an early Obelisk is all that important. I would be happy to wait and trade for Myst once we have Alphabet.

How many turns would Alphabet take for us at our current rate? Again at the wrong computer. I would argue either that, or a quick Agri first.

I would give up on the Pyramids. We simply can't afford a try for it with our really crappy overall production, unless we can be really sure to grab it.

 

[battchy]

Thinking back, you're all right about the forest chop. Shouldn't have done it, sorry....

If memory serves, Alphabet was something like 26 turns if started right now.

I was thinking Myst for Obelisks. I will try to get another WB out to go east when I play again later tonght.

B

 

[unkle]

I knew it about Pyramids (worth asking anyway)...
I just think we need to verage our philo trait: or we go the wonder route, or we go the specialist route. One is production (and science) based, the other is foodbased. Of course we can try both Or none...

Anyway Alphabet is 26 turns, I'd vote for it: no cultural expansion to be planned before that in Kiev I guess. So unless we need it for next (two I guess) city, Alpha all the way.

So agreed with zyxy, where do we settle next ? that's tough decision....

First try for dotmap

tough really...
I would advise (if we dotmap that way) going for clam+rice because that city can grow fast...

I must say I am nearly clueless on "best way to go".

 

[Niklas]

Your yellow dot has no fancy tile within the first 9, so if we settle it we do need a border expansion. I would certainly agree with Red dot first.

Then again, this dotmap really does scream for Mysticism... Going for Alphabet now means waiting some 30 turns to get Alpha and presumably trade for the low level stuff that we want. Can we wait that long?

 

[unkle]

@Niklas

I do not have the courage to make a rough estimation, but settling red city and going for library (whipped) should fasten the 26 current turns. Unless...
Oh my. Will our third town requires us dropping 100% science ? Probably...
Tougher than ever then. Myst might take my vote in that case.