SGOTM 04 - Geezers

The only thing I can definitively say about any of the other teams...is that CRC has already given up their original location to Gandhi...they suffered an almost 4k culture(80% of their total culture at the time) drop during their last turnset...to me that signals that they kept some or all of Khan's cities and have relocated there, until they move off continent(unless they don't plan on going off continent)
 
I say we hit him next turn using the zerk.

EDIT: I like to keep the city for all the river front cottage space it gives and we can replace with mills before we give it to Gandhi.

Agree on attacking Sanchu with Zerk next turn. The axe should probably attack Khan's cat as well. We can always use more workers. :D Be prepared for the possibility that Hannibal will DoW us.

I think it's also worth rushing the courthouse in Ning-Hsia and the caravel in Yayoi.

EDIT: I agree we should keep Sanchu. Since it looks like we're going to kick Khan off the mainland, should we switch to Police State to minimise WW?
 
I don't think workers cost maintenance...but regardless, having more workers means finishing the chopping of jungle and production of cottages faster, allowing us to concentrate on other things faster.

Additionally, since each worker is 90 hammers, and a city has to stop growing to build one, the fact that we can get 4 or more workers for essentially free will be a big bonus...its one of the best reasons to beat down an AI early in a game, when you don't necessarily want their cities, you want all their workers! :)
 
I'm almost positive that workers and settlers both count toward your total number of troops when your army cost is computed.

I do however think that they are worth it - iirc four workers would cost 1gpt total (although that may depend on map size/speed?) and we can do a lot with them that should make up for that cost.
 
Sum: Meet Izzy and she DoW on us. We take Sanchu at a cost of a Zerk and we loose a cat and a Axe to a LB. We get 5 workers and loose one. Hanny is still Pleased with us.

1220 AD (Turn 260) Start moving Cats Zerks and swords toward Old Kara site. No build changes. Caravals start Zigging and Zagging.
IBT: Mohmed offer OB and we except it since he is soooo pleased with us. Brennes wanted to trade food for Gems but would not throw in 2 gpt. So No deal.

1226 AD (Turn 261) Move units. Gandhi has another caraval by Yayui. Check relations to find Mohmed is not best friends with Brennes. SO no deals.

1232 AD (Turn 262) Meet Issy. Pissed off as usual. She is the one founded Buddhism. Find land to east claimed by Brennus.

1238 AD (Turn 263) Nidaros and Upps: Cara>Zerk. Movement and checking brennus' land. Arrgh. We lost one of the tiles of ElDo to India. It need Culture. Renegotiated corn for 2 more gpt with Hanny.

1244 AD (Turn 264) Yayui grew and hired another scientist. It appears Brennus and Mahmed share a continent/island. Science at 50% & Astro in 8. Sanchu grow to 2.:0

1250 AD (Turn 265) Sanchu has a settler. Issy also share the continent with Brennus and Mahmed.

1256 AD (turn 266) Sanchu is protected by just one LB. Moving units to attack Sanchu and settler and cat.
IBT: Mahmed wanted to trade fish for gems but won't give 1gpt. So no.

1262 AD (Turn 267) Dow and capture 1 worker and a settler. Move 4 units into place.
IBT: Khan send a LB to kill the Cat protecting a worker roading to Old Sarai.

1268 AD (Turn 268) Axe with 82% chance die by the LB :cry: . Zerk with 27% die at Sanchu. Axe from Haitha take the city. Not a very good turn. Cordoba is defended by 2 maces, Pikeman, LB and a Phant.
IBT: 2 of Gandhi's Caravals kill our 2 near Yayui.:mad:

1274 AD (Turn 269) Nidaros: Zerk>Cara. Rush Lib in New Sarai (was in revolt) and Courthouse in Ning-H. There is a Phant and 2 Xbows on the Indian side near Iron-Sheep.
IBT: Issy DoW on us and kill one of our Caravals :mad: . This is good in a way. If we can get the Civs over there to DOW on her just before when we can attack, she might be week enough to take easily.

1280 AD (Turn 270) Start cat in New Saria and a Lib In Ning Hsia. Rush Forge in ElDo. Move troops. We do not have the troops to kill the force at Old Sarai. I would keep building units for a While.

Interesting Combat Odds
Spoiler :
Turn 268, 1268 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Yayoi!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Yayoi!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman (5.50) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (4.14)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 83.2%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Axeman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Axeman has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Berserker (8.80) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (10.20)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 23.7%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Attack: -30%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Berserker is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman has defeated Geezers's Berserker!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Subutai (Great General) has been born in Old Sarai (Genghis Khan)!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Berserker has died trying to attack a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman (6.00) vs Genghis Khan's Longbowman (1.20)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Genghis Khan's Longbowman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Axeman has defeated Genghis Khan's Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Your Axeman has destroyed a Longbowman!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 268, 1268 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 268, 1268 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 268, 1268 AD: You have captured Sanchu!!!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Iron Sheep.
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel (3.30) vs Geezers's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 32.6%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel has defeated Geezers's Caravel!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: While defending, your Caravel was destroyed by a Indian Caravel!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel (3.30) vs Geezers's Caravel (3.30)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Combat Odds: 50.0%
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Geezers's Caravel is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 268, 1268 AD: Gandhi's Caravel has defeated Geezers's Caravel!
Turn 268, 1268 AD: While defending, your Caravel was destroyed by a Indian Caravel!


Wonders Built +
Spoiler :

Turn 260, 1220 AD: The Church of the Nativity has been built in a far away land!
Turn 262, 1232 AD: The Spiral Minaret has been built in a far away land!
Turn 266, 1256 AD: Angkor Wat has been built in a far away land!
Turn 267, 1262 AD: Hannibal adopts Theocracy!
Turn 269, 1274 AD: The Hagia Sophia has been built in a far away land!


Da Zave
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Geezers_SG004_AD1280_01.CivWarlordsSave

Who's up...Jenarie?
 
oh no no no not me! Sam first before its my turn to panic! ;)

Unless I missed a skip request somewhere, current roster is:

Sam - UP
Jenarie - on deck
Mark
Harbourboy
Thrallia
Htadus - just played
 
Isabella is pretty low on the power chart... right above us and below everyone else (except for Kahn of course who is dead and just doesn't know it yet). It might be pretty easy to get someone to declare on her since she is so weak compared to the rest of them.

Gandhi is doing quite well even without our help. He's got by far the highest power rating with Brennus, Hannibal, and Mehmed all clumped near second and then a large gap and then Izzy and then us. His production looks decent although he's only fourth. If we can just get him to dream of space instead of troops it doesn't look like he'll have any trouble getting there. The bright side of his power rating is that no one is going to look at him and see target... unlike us who have a big bullseye painted on our backs. :)

Brennus hates (furious) Isabella and Hannibal is annoyed with her. Unfortunately both of them have "enough on our hands right now." Hurting Izzy isn't going to be a great thing as she is Gandhi's number one trading parter atm but he has other friends so I'm sure he'll get over it eventually if we have to be mean to his girlfriend. :lol: I find it funny that Brennus & Gandhi are about tied and way ahead of the rest of the pack in culture and are trading each other stone for marble.

I agree we need troops but I also think we should get courthouses up soon as well. We could save at least 3gpt each in Upsalla, Iron Sheep, Yayoi, and New Karakorum. Plus the one we have being built we could have 16 more gpt. I know though that it is hard to slot these in but we need them eventually and the sooner the better imo somehow balanced with need for troops.

Izzie has elephants good thing we have all those spears. I'm babbling now so thats enough random thoughts for tonight. :)
 
Jenarie...another benefit of those courthouses is that we'd then have enough to build the forbidden palace in New Karakorum...which would further decrease our maintenance costs.
 
As far as Izzy goes...I'm less interested in killing her off and taking her land, than I am in finding an uninhabited continent and moving there.
 
Hmm, Izzy's always tends to be a pain. However since she doesn't have Astro at present I'll ignore her for the present. Khan seems to have a similar garrison in Old Sarai to the one he had in Old Sarai that cost me so many units. :( I'll build up a few more units to make sure of it this time. I also want to make sure we've got reasonable defences against Ghandhi & Hannibal in case they decide to dogpile us. This may mean that Jenarie gets the joys of attacking Old Sarai. Do we want to wipe out Khan or just kick him off the mainland?

Techwise I'm proposing Guilds and Banking after Astro. Any other thoughts?

I want to try and get our southern cities expanding their borders so I may well change some of the builds to help that and rush where possible. I'm not sure what we can do to counter Bombay's cultural influence against El Do though. IIRC we can't build caravels after we get Astro so I may delay Astro by a turn or two to let current build(s) finish. I'll look at the need for CH's, but won't be my highest priority. I want to have a good look at what our workers are doing. Some of their current tasks strike me as inappropriate.

I won't be playing before this evening at the earliest. Possibly not until tomorrow morning. Comments gratefully received.

EDIT: I believe we still have a GG in El Do which I think I'll use to create a military academy in Nidaros.
 
I think you can build Caravels for ages yet. Definitely can still build them when you have Galleons.

Ah, perhaps you can no longer build caravels once you research Chemistry when frigates are available instead. I thought it was earlier than that but I'm happy if I was wrong.
 
I realize it has to be balanced against more pressing demands but I'm a huge fan of courthouses. In my opinion, every turn we don't have one is just gold thrown away. Considering our financial/tech situation I'd think they should be pretty high priority.

Khan is going to hate us forever so I'd hate to leave him around at this point and yet I'm not really sure if it is worth ferrying an army over to his island to wipe him out either. But on the other hand we sorta need boats over there anyway. But then again (am I up to three hands?) galleys aren't what we'd chose to put there. I can be happy either way... pushing him off our continent or wiping him out.
 
I definately see Izzy's land as our New Home. But I would like to see us wait it out in our current areas for a while. At least we should beat everyone to space elevator tech and build it for Gandhi and then do the right thing and let gandhi take most of the cities and give the rest to gandhis tech trading partner.

I think building Courts is an excellent idea but we need to boats and units. So I suggest we build courthouses in those southern cities after they get the basics....grainary and culture if there are productive tiles outside. We should rush the grainary and then the rest also. We probably can get better production through wipping versus using shields. May be we should use food and gold tiles mainly for growth.
 
Ok we've got Astro and I need some advice. We've met Washington but just a little while later in the same turn Hannibal vassalised him. :eek: The various trade offers are below:

Spoiler :








Mehmed looks the obvious choice but should I try to trade to Brennus as well? I don't really want to trade to Hannibal as he may get the wrong sort of ideas. :crazyeye:

When I went to select Guilds I discovered that Feudalism is a pre-req. Thrallia's not the only one that forgets to check the pre-reqs. :blush: I've selected Engineering as a placeholder for the time being. If I trade with Mehmed should I go for something other than Guilds?

Game save is here.

EDIT: Hannibal has Knights and Brennus has Muskets.
 
If we trade with one of them for the long list, the other should give us engineering and some gold. So that puts us pretty much caught up.

It looks like research can go back to 40% which would make guilds 13 turns. Printing press is another option if we end up trading for all the prerequisites... we have willages/towns now so that would be instant more gold. It may be a faster economy fix then guilds > banking - worth at least checking once we see the times after the pre-reqs go in. Not sure if the AI usually researches that? It may also be good for trading but I don't know well enough to say what the chances are of that.
 
It looks like research can go back to 40% which would make guilds 13 turns. Printing press is another option if we end up trading for all the prerequisites... we have willages/towns now so that would be instant more gold. It may be a faster economy fix then guilds > banking - worth at least checking once we see the times after the pre-reqs go in. Not sure if the AI usually researches that? It may also be good for trading but I don't know well enough to say what the chances are of that.

I put the research rate down from 50% when we only had one turn left to research to build up some funds. Good point about Printing Press. I'll wait for some more comments before I continue playing.
 
Do you think we have a chance at Libaralism? If so I would make sure to get the prereqs for that and all the gold from the AI to start on Education. A good free tech like Nationalism or Mil Trad would come in handy for survival situation. Either case, I would get most of the techs and the gold. Since we have not been trading for long there should not be any WFYBTA crap. I would just check to see which civ has the most sensitivity to trade and trade with them first. There is a good article on this subject in the forums.
 
Top Bottom