SGOTM 04 - Team VQ

[namliaM]

Wow, nice progress....

Why the acadamy in Nadiros and not in Haithabu? They are both about equal and I think Haithabu can work more cottages (eventually).

I dont know about turfan's position if is was that bad to have it one of the coast, I would have to check the save.... But the capitol culture (IMHO) is a non argument as it will likely fall before Turfan would be out of revolt.

I agree with GF that the healer should really be on the front lines...

 

[GreyFox]

With 50% commerce bonus and the free +8 from palace, nothing can come close to Nidaros (the question is does academy boost the 50% extra commerce as well?). Currently Nidaros is producing 31 beakers, Haithabu is producing 17. And if we are talking abt "eventually", we may eventually want to handover Haithabu (and possibly Nidaros as well) to Gandhi.

A better use might be to hang on with the GS to lightbulb something though. We are quite backwards in tech.

--

 

[namliaM]

(the question is does academy boost the 50% extra commerce as well?). Currently Nidaros is producing 31 beakers, Haithabu is producing 17.

Yes it boosts the beakers. Commerce is transformed into beakers by the slider, then the beakers are multiplied by the Acadamy + Lib etc.

Well getting the acadamy means 15 beakers extra a turn (at 50%). Burning him will net approx 2500 beakers. When will it pay off?

Birka is in DIRE need of culture! We are losing the battle of the Gems tile it was 64% at the end of my set. Now its 53% I suggest getting a Monastary and Temple in ASAP.

Edit:
Tonsberg I think doesnt need farms, cottages....
We want some markets and Courhouses up asap... I suggest swapping civics to OR and get every city building infra except maybe Nadiros, which can build the reinforcements we need + the defencive aid we need.
Once (nearly) done it too can start getting some infra up.

Tech: Swap to Guilds? If we have no desire for Optics/Astronomy in the near future?

 

[bobrath]

I left the corn "stolen" to get that city growing and to provide it something I could whip - there is effectively NO production in that city. Its whip or nothing.

Super Medic is "backlines" because his stack took Old Sarai (and had to defend it a bit) while the other stack took down Turfan. The medic is en route to meet up with the much less healed stack for a massive bang on the capital and ???

If we want to catch up in tech, we're going to have to do it with some good trading and more optimal researching. Find a tech that others don't have - research it and trade away. Music and Education are two of those.

 

[namliaM]

Music and Education are two of those.

I can see (good) reasons for abandoning the Optics research, but Education IIRC we dont have paper yet....

 

[Maquis]

Maybe a dumb thought, but if we went for Music (and got it first), we could use the free Artist for a culture bomb somwhere... to keep the AI (other than Baldy) from encroaching on (former) Mongol lands..

 

[bobrath]

Namliam we DO have paper (so you don't rc ). I researched it and finished it at end of my turns.

Music is known out there - a few AIs don't have it. Just as a few AIs still don't know paper and education.

 

[namliaM]

(so you don't rc )

OK Kewl. Then IIRC (*quickly loads the save to double check *) the GS will bulb Education for us!

Confirmed, 2511 beakers for Education if we bulb now, more pop = more beakers.
Education is 4000+ beakers leaves 11 turns to research it at 50%. Could very well be an option ....

 

[bobrath]

Is there an echo in here?

Discovered paper (and now 6 turns left on optics). Our GS will give us 2511 beakers (of 4036) towards education, but Hannibal got liberalism in the middle of my turns. Not all the civs have education (heck 4 don't even have paper - tho two are Ghandi and Khaaan). I would suggest the next player trade paper to Mehmed for his best offer which should get us Drama (tho everyone has that already). We won't get much better offers. Picking up his world map in trade might make ours worth enough to other civs to make some cash off map trading. GW is a cheapskate and won't give much of anything for Paper, so screw him.

 

[namliaM]

Is there an echo in here?

Makes me allmost feel like I didnt read that report... *makes point to go back and re-read* ... sorry bob

 

[bobrath]

Its all good. My lack of story telling is a weakness so I try to make sure that I convey all the goodness I can along with informative screen shots and such. That way I can avoid all culpability.... or at least make it so dry you forget what you wrote!

 

[GreyFox]

I heeded previous player's advice and traded Paper:

and proceed to become the map-seller:

That allows me to run 100% research and learn us Education, with the consumption of Isaac Newton of-course.

I have not traded Education, next player should check trade before pressing enter

After building 2 or 3 more military (2 of which are longbows though), I swapped us to Organized Religion:

Made one more map selling:

In the war front, absolutely nothing happens. However, one must consider that I have only played 8 turns and Karakorum suddenly has 100% cultural defense

This annoying thing must happen:

Well, good thing abt it is it does means that someone gets to undo bobrath's razing of Turfan (just remember to rename the city to Nara! ).

Troops deployment at the end of my short 8 turns:

Karakorum should fall next turn or 2, and with 2 berserkers reinforcing, the new Nara city should also fall within the next player's turnset. The crossbow defender in that city, however, might prove to be tedious though.

Note also the orange settler party.

>>> Enjoy the battle I set up nicely for you <<<

Spoiler :

Turn 257, 1202 AD: You have discovered Drama!
Turn 257, 1202 AD: Gandhi adopts Mercantilism!
Turn 257, 1202 AD: Brennus has completed University of Sankore!
Turn 257, 1202 AD: Isabella adopts Mercantilism!

Turn 258, 1208 AD: Hannibal has completed Notre Dame!

Turn 259, 1214 AD: Narak (Great Prophet) has been born in Carthage (Hannibal)!

Turn 260, 1220 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 260, 1220 AD: VQ adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 260, 1220 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 261, 1226 AD: Hannibal has 220 gold available for trade
Turn 261, 1226 AD: Birka will become unhappy on the next turn
Turn 261, 1226 AD: Sinan (Great Engineer) has been born in Karakorum (Genghis Khan)!
Turn 261, 1226 AD: Duke Ellington (Great Artist) has been born in Madrid (Isabella)!

Turn 262, 1232 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Birka!
Turn 262, 1232 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 24 ? for Samarqand.
Turn 262, 1232 AD: Birka has grown to size 7
Turn 262, 1232 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Brennus

Turn 263, 1238 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Samarqand!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Birka!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Karakorum to 79%!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Karakorum to 72%!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Karakorum to 65%!
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Hannibal has 9 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 263, 1238 AD: Genghis Khan adopts Bureaucracy!

Turn 264, 1244 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Samarqand!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Birka!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Karakorum to 58%!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Karakorum to 51%!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Karakorum to 44%!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: You have discovered Education!
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Mehmed II has 100 gold available for trade
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Brennus has 120 gold available for trade
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Genghis Khan has 5 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 264, 1244 AD: Birka will grow to size 8 on the next turn
Turn 264, 1244 AD: T&#248;nsberg will grow to size 6 on the next turn

Turn 265, 1250 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Samarqand!
Turn 265, 1250 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Birka!
Turn 265, 1250 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Karakorum to 37%!
Turn 265, 1250 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Karakorum to 30%!
Turn 265, 1250 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Karakorum to 23%!

 

[namliaM]

Where is that settler party going to??? Is he actually going to try settling that one or 2 tiles southeast of Uppsala where it is possible?

Roster
namliaM -- +1 gmt (Actually 0 atm due to DST) > Started war on Khaaan
Greyfox -- +8 gmt > Got 100% BOOTY from Khaaan
Maquis -- -7 gmt
Bobrath -- -5 gmt
Healium -- +1 gmt -- Still on Auto skip, speak up if you want back in the rotation!
Scowler -- gmt > UP or will our weekend man want a swap?
Frankcor-- -5 gmt <Lurker>
Cosmichail -- -5gmt > On Deck?!

Is that city really that bad in that position and/or is it much better 1 north or south?? I dont know....

We need culture real bad in Birka, maybe we should put one turn into the Monastary and Whip it. The overflow will fill up the theatre that is building (I hope). The gems have fallen to 50% allready.... Would be not so good if we lose it

 

[bobrath]

I actually considered leaving a spear or token unit at the old Turfan site to prevent the AI settler to same exact spot crud. Ah well, if someone wants to capture it - they'll have to wait for it to grow to 2 iirc. As long as we rename that waste of bricks to Nara, I'm amenable.

Not sure about the orange settler - perhaps en route to the old Turfan site? Or is there room to squeeze a city in between Sanchu and New Sarai?

Great Stuff GreyFox. Kind of surprised you weren't able to knock out the capital during your turnset - must be partially due to the needed healing of the first wave of units.

Any new happenings on the Indian front?

 

[Cosmichail]

Just had a look at the save and we are indeed making progress. I was hoping we'd have the capitol by now but I can see that we are ready to take it. Do we want Sanchu? (or future Nara)

A couple things I noticed:

1. namliaM concerns about Birka 50&#37; culture. Whip a monastery for the overflow into theater? Although that would remove a citizen or two from cottages or sugar so is that what we want? Right now it's ready to grow in 1 turn theater can be whipped in 1 turn. No loss of citizen. Although you say never only whip 1 pop I am inclined to say yes since that will double the culture output from 3 to 6 and loose no citizen hence don't loose any citizens working tiles. We could even remove one citizen and hire an artist for the one cottage that is still a cottage. All the other tiles are producing good commerce and should be left to work. Whipping a monastery would cause what 2 or 3 pop loss too much I think. Perhaps namliaM you could suggest something else?

2. We are about to loose our worker at Haithabu crossbow is only one tile away on a hill so we should dispatch someone to cover that guy before we loose him.

3. We lost the clams at Nidaros and not really a big deal but at some point we should put a caravel there and get a fishing boat there to reconnect clams. (caravel when we get optics in a trade) In addition Nidaros will grow in two turns and cannot work any more mines or will starve so will have to work the grass tile which has no improvements. (or work another ocean tile) We need to get a worker over there and put up a cottage. (that's if we keep the scientist if we remove him then Nidaros can work a mine again)

I can't see where Hannibal wants to settle but I'm sure he'll try. What concerns me he is in the industrial age already and likely to beat Gandhi in space race if we don't do something about him next. I don't think berserkers are going to cut it with him and we will need grenadiers. He has engineering/gunpowder and who knows what else. Likely steel too so we will need cannons. (if we don't hurry we might even run into infantry)

Research/trading

Our finances are not so good with only in positive at 30%. We will need to trade smart with education and get as much as possible out of it.

Gandhi

Not much happening here other than a bunch of caravels keeping our shores occupied. We will need naval superiority at some point to take on Hannibal so once we finish Khan off we need to get a navy started.

Great person

We definitely need to keep that scientist in Nidaros as it will pop another Gperson in 20 turns. We could use him for lightbulbing something. Astro would be good if he'll give that.

I can swap with Scowler and play soon but I'll wait to hear from Scowler.

EDIT: I do think our finances will improve once we open up the trade routes with the other civs since being at war with Khan blocks that. (I believe) however Izzy/Brennus are in mercantilism. At least Washington hasn't adopted it yet. I can't get over how we fallen behind in techs.

 

[GreyFox]

Not sure about the orange settler - perhaps en route to the old Turfan site? Or is there room to squeeze a city in between Sanchu and New Sarai?

They should be just wandering around looking for sites ... I am not too concerned abt that.

Great Stuff GreyFox. Kind of surprised you weren't able to knock out the capital during your turnset - must be partially due to the needed healing of the first wave of units.

The main delay is due to the culture, we only had 3 cats. Considering it takes 3 turns to move the second force into position, and I played only 8 turns, it shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

Any new happenings on the Indian front?

Nada ... absolutely nothing.

2. We are about to loose our worker at Haithabu crossbow is only one tile away on a hill so we should dispatch someone to cover that guy before we loose him.

I thought that crossbow was ours ... we signed a blood pact, so our colors are misleadingly close to each other, you know

--

 

[Cosmichail]

You're right Greyfox it is ours my mistake. The colours are very similiar and thought it was a cb coming from the fog.

 

[namliaM]

1. namliaM concerns about Birka 50&#37; culture. Whip a monastery for the overflow into theater? ... Whipping a monastery would cause what 2 or 3 pop loss too much I think. Perhaps namliaM you could suggest something else?

Hmz, the Artist is a temporary stop cap measurement. i.e. we get lots of culture temporary... but at the cost of food + commerce.
Whipping a monastory will cost 2 pop (90 hammers IIRC) if we put 1 turn production in. This monastary will product not only 2 culture constantly, but also contribute 10% research (not much I know) and (more importantly) not "distract" our populous from working tiles longer term.
I have not done the math yet.... but... IIRC Birka is size 8.
Whip for 2, means dropping to 6. 6>7 = 38/2 = 19 food
7>8= 41 - 19 = 22 food.
So the monastary would cost us roughly 20 + 22 food. Enough to run the artist for 10 + 11 turns. IIRC the Artist gives 5 culture/turn, 21 * 5 = 105 culture. The monastary will take 50 turns to do the same, but will keep contributing where the artist is gone.
The artist is short term gain, while the monastary (even if whipped) would be a long term solution.
I dont know how close/far we are from a border pop in Birka, getting the border to pop would really help a lot....

I can't see where Hannibal wants to settle

there is some space just southeast of Uppsala where the Berserker is standing for example, but it is very cramped.
Untill we take Karakorum that is.... Removing that culture will open up more tiles by removing the culture barrier....
Sanchu Nara if not at that spot then where do we settle it? 1 south or 1 north?
The settler in Bjorgvin we can use for 2 ways
1) Re-settle Nara
2) The propesed city north of Nadiros, low cost with IIRC 5 cottagable tiles... should turn a profit fast.

Our finances are not so good with only in positive at 30%. We will need to trade smart with education and get as much as possible out of it.

Hopefully a round of markets and courthouses will help that as well as the FP.
Open borders possibly but not without (atleast) OBs with Hannibal untill we get Astro. Is Merc an option for us (I know we dont have Banking yet)

We definitely need to keep that scientist in Nidaros as it will pop another Gperson in 20 turns. We could use him for lightbulbing something. Astro would be good if he'll give that.

Any GS will now bulb PP before anything else. Only Scientific Method and Physics will change its mind without researching PP.

 

[Scowler]

I can swap with Scowler and play soon but I'll wait to hear from Scowler.

Yep, please take over Cosmic, thanks.

 

[bobrath]

I'm ok with the GS bulbing PP - especially if it is a tech that few (if none) of the other AIs have. Its these monopoly techs that can yank us back up into tech parity.