SGOTM 04 - Xteam

Frederiksberg · May 6, 2007

leif erikson said:
I like Frederiksberg proposal for Police State, Nationhood and Emancipation, Don't know how many turns we'll be in transition though. Too bad we don't have Communism so we can go with State Property as well.

Revolting to Emancipation alone takes 3 turns and doing the tripple revolt to Emancipation, Police State and Nationhood takes only one turn extra (4 turns).

Before doing the revolt we should check if we need to do any last minute whipping anywhere - primarily in hammer poor cities. Whipping the Globe Theater is a must if we opt for Nationhood because reducing the size of the city will actually make it an even stronger drafting machine because a smaller city grows faster! (It shouldn't go below pop 4 though because we want to work all tiles with 5+ food including the fish currently used by Isca.). So here's how it might work: Whip the Globe for 7 pop. When the Globe is built and we have adopted Nationhood we draft 3 infantry/rifles immediately. City size is now 4. Working the fish, crab, deer and pig the city grows back to size 7 in about 5 turns and we repeat the draft of 3 units. Note, that drafting creates lots of unhappyness which makes it less attractive in most other cities - except maybe cities that we don't intend to keep or cities that require fast reinforcement.

My only concern regarding the civic changes is that we will be teching slower and we still need to research Assembly Line, Physics and Artillery before we have all the techs we need for the war. Maybe Assembly Line is good enough to get the war started - machine guns defending cities will be our main worry but we could still pillage and control our enemies even if we dont capture many cities. Pillaging the uranium is crucial.

Cactus Pete · May 6, 2007

I certainly agree with the three-civic revolution and the plan to pillage (uranium plus fishing nets) even if we can't take cities initially.

I expect H to initiate attack with city near Ning-hsia, and we should get destroyers in place there quickly.

No response to my suggestion to use the GA in Istanbul?

Frederiksberg · May 6, 2007

Cactus Pete said:
No response to my suggestion to use the GA in Istanbul?

This is because I don't know what effect it will have. It may have no immediate effect at all if the neigbouring Ottoman cities have much more culture. Does any of you know how to calculate this? My guess would be that it would free up the tiles adjacent to Istanbul and maybe a bit more towards the sea. But will it happen instantly or does it require some time?

Cactus Pete · May 6, 2007

The city will instantly get out of anarchy (or it would in regular CivIV).

Bede · May 6, 2007

The Great Artist In Istanbul will end the resistance instantly, but the Ottoman culture is so dominant surrounding the town it probably will not push the borders back. If we want to use him for culture bombing it may be better to wait for the capture of at least one more Ottoman town.

Frederiksberg · May 6, 2007

Cactus Pete said:
The city will instantly get out of anarchy (or it would in regular CivIV).

That might be useful if we want to draft defenders. Istanbul will come out of anarchy anyway in 6 turns - how long will it take to get the GA there? And what happens when we revolt to new civics - does that prolong the anarchy in Istanbul?

Bede said:
The Great Artist In Istanbul will end the resistance instantly, but the Ottoman culture is so dominant surrounding the town it probably will not push the borders back.

That's also what I fear allthough I have no hard facts to support it.

Cactus Pete · May 6, 2007

If we do nothing, there is a good chance that the city will stage an Ottoman resistance revolt as soon as, or shortly after, it comes out of anarchy. A second such revolt would flip the city. The GA generates a culture of 4000 (standard C4 game) and would almost certainly prevent that, which is why i suggested we consider using it. We could wait until after the first revolt to use it. I'm not sure it's the best use of the GA, given both the uncertainty of holding onto Istanbul and the possible future need for it in Ankara, but I wanted it to be considered.

leif erikson · May 6, 2007

Ok, here is the balance of this most difficult turn set.

Unfortunately, Hannibal has taken Kolhapur and has an Artillery unit outside of Delhi. We need more naval units and will need to declare on Hannibal soon.

Our government is restored.

<< THE SAVE >>

The Turn Log:
Turn 365 – 1685 AD
Decide to save game and post for further team discussion. This is getting complicated.

Load up the save to continue the game.
The outstanding issue is the Great Artist and whether to use him in Istanbul?
I check the Victory Conditions screen and find that Gandhi is in the lead with 14,185 culture points in Delhi, 6836 in Madras and 5285 in Bombay. I then check the top 5 cities/wonders tab in the info screen. In Istanbul, there were no wonders and in checking the list of wonders that have been built, there are none listed for Mehmed. Going back through the Event Log, there was one Great Artist born that we don’t know who received him. Mehmed has had two Great Scientists and a Great Artist, the Great Artist was born in 1676 AD, three turns ago. Looking at the culture graph in the info screen under the Culture Tab, Mehmed shows no signs of using a Great Artist as a culture bomb. In fact, he is dead last in culture. The culture in our three top cities is 4620 in Nidaros, 1427 in Old Sarai and 1278 in Hittite. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to assume that Mehmed doesn’t have a great deal of culture in his cities, probably hasn’t reached the 7,500 mark in them yet and that a culture bomb has a reasonable chance for success in moving the borders. So I think I will try CP’s idea and set one off there. The problem will be getting him into the city as Mehmed’s culture has Istanbul encircled and says we must declare war to enter.

OK, first I change the culture setting to 10% and increase the science setting to 50%, Democracy due in 1 turn.

In Bibracte we pop-rush the Globe Theater, which requires 7 population, and mm to use all the high food tiles. Pop-rushing so many citizens caused a research decline, so change the sliders again to 0% culture and 60% research.

Begin moving Destroyers towards Hannibal’s territory. We get Kerkouane in sight and there is a Frigate outside the city and three Infantry, a SAM Infantry and a Cavalry in town. There are also a Cavalry, Longbow and Settler that belong to Washington there, no ships.

Send the Great General to Old Sarai, arrives next turn.

IBT
Democracy comes in and we restart our research of Assembly Line to egt Infantry, then we can work on Artillery.
Bibracte Globe Theater => Barracks.
Tolosa expands.
Hannibal adopts Police State and Theocracy. He’s getting ready for war!

Turn 366 – 1688 AD
Send Great Artist towards Istanbul.
Sink one of Gandhi’s Frigates near Hittite.
Destroyer visits near Leptis and finds a fleet of two Frigates and three Galleons. Leptis has two Infantry, two SAM Infantry and two Cavalry.

Visit Hadrumetum and find six Infantry, two SAM Infantry, an Artillery, a Frigate and a Settler.
Run through the cities for last minute pop-rush opportunities.
See none so go to Civics screen and select Police State, Nationhood and Emancipation for 4 turns of Revolution.
Visit with Mehmed and trade him Corn for 4 GPT.
We also get a look at Kolhapur and it has a Rifleman, a Longbow, a Pike and a Caravel. Not a very robust force for fending off Hannibal.

IBT
Hannibal’s fleet, now of two Frigates and two Galleons moves closer to Kolhapur.

Turn 367 – 1691 AD
Looking at Old Sarai, it already has a Military Academy there, so I send him to the center of the map to await a decision on where to best use him.

We get a look at Washington, which is full of Carthaginian troops.

And of New York.

We also get a look at Carthage, pretty dull; four Infantry, a SAM Infantry, an Artillery, a Great Prophet and two Confucian Missionaries.

Decide I have to take a chance with Carthage and Kolhapur as I cannot stop them at this point anyway.

I decide to gift Izzy Railroad to see if she can get it to Gandhi for Machine Guns?

IBT
Hannibal lands a SAM Infantry, an Artillery and four Cavalry on the hill near Kolhapur.
Darn, darn, darn!!

Turn 368 – 1694 AD
I feel pretty useless at the moment as there is nothing I can do to save Kolhapur…

IBT
Kolhapur falls to Hannibal.
Mehmed comes and offers Open Borders, OK for now.

Turn 369 – 1697 AD
Offload troops and Great Artist in Istanbul.
Set off culture bomb in Istanbul, doesn’t break the culture lock. The Great Artist provided 6000 culture points!

A look at Sicca.

IBT
Gandhi’s Ironclad defeats ours near Upsala.
The Anarchy is over and our Government is reestablished.

Turn 370 – 1700 AD
We draft a Rifle at Bibracte. Can only draft one per city per turn.
Send Rifle to Verlamion and fortify.

Sink Gandhi’s Ironclad with a Destroyer.

Increase research to 70%, Assembly Line in 6 turns.

I do not move the Great General but think the best place for a Military Academy is in Nidaros. The team can decide that as it is my last turn.

Change build in Istanbul from culture to Theater.

After Action Report
I lost Gandhi’s city in the south. It now belongs to Hannibal.

We have control over our government again. Assembly Line due in 6 turns. Couldn’t get anything out of Hannibal or Washington. Gifted Railroad to Izzy hoping it would get to Gandhi to give him a fighting chance with Machine Guns, but it hasn’t gotten there yet.

Set the culture bomb off in Istanbul but it didn’t affect much. We need to take Bursa and Konya. Not sure what is in Bursa but we should be able to take Konya from the sea. There are enough units in Istanbul to move when we are ready, although a few more Cannons would be nice. Before we do this, I think we should have a force ready near the Carthaginian city on our continent so we can quickly take it. There is another Transport inbound to Istanbul which can be there next turn, it is northwest.

A Destroyer screen has been established on the northern area of Carthage so we can detect any ship movement towards Gandhi’s home continent. There is a single Carthaginian Galleon west of Birka and a Frigate near Ning-hsia to watch.

I just noticed a Carthaginian Artillery piece next to Delhi?? How did I miss that?
Also, please note the Carthaginian Frigate near Bombay.

The Great General is unmoved this turn. A Military Academy already exists in Old Sarai, so we can use him elsewhere. I suggest a Military Academy in Nidaros. I think we can also change the western most farm in Nidaros’ fat cross to a Workshop.

leif erikson · May 6, 2007

For those interested in the gritty details:

Spoiler :

Cactus Pete · May 7, 2007

Well, leif, you had quite a struggle. My idea to use the GA in Istanbul appears to have been a bad one. I do not understand culture. Nonetheless, I think youve brought us out of it in pretty good shape, but Gandhi has certainly been set back a bit.

Ive never played a game that brought me this far up the tech tree, so Ive got more questions than answers. In no particular order, here is what interests me:

What else, besides the one artillery unit, has H managed to transport to India? Where are they, and what are they doing?

Where is the rest of Hs navy, or is what weve seen what he has? We need to move some destroyers around and see if they bump into anything.

In sum, we need to know if Gandhi remains in immediate jeopardy. If not, then I think we want to wait until we are in a position to take out M quickly and to weaken (or at least pillage) H considerably. If H really only has a few galleons, then we should have the option of sinking them all, along with their escorts, before they reach India. If he puts his best units aboard, well have little choice but to try to do that, but if he puts cavalry and the like on so few ships, Gandhi can probably take care of himself. (He may have done so already, if the lone artillery piece we can see is all there is.)

Why are we building a theatre in Istanbul while our population starves away? Shouldnt we be drafting destroyers instead?

It doesnt seem optimal to me to have so many empty galleon anchored off of Istanbul. If we load some of the units now in the city into the galleons and move them two tiles SW of Konya, then not only will they keep an eye on that city but we will also have saved a turn should we want to go after Ankara (and they would still be readily available to help defend Istanbul). Plus, lets sail at least a couple of those galleons and perhaps a transport along the southern ice passage and try to get them in position to eventually be useful should we want to land units on Carthaginian soil.

Im thinking that we should use the GG to promote perhaps four cannons with extra city raiders in anticipation of upgrading them to devastating artillery pieces (plus one free upgrade).

Lets find out what M has in his cities ASAP.

Now that weve revolted to Nationalism, we can draft a unit in any city in one turn, so I dont think we need to hold the two frigates on coast guard duty near Bibracte. Lets sail them east and then south, serving as scouts as they go, heading for Ottoman territory. They figure to be of some use to us there, or at least they will be in better position to help us in future battles.

Frederiksberg, please explain again how you are deducing the uranium and its locations in Carthaginian territory? BTW, I will be gone for three days beginning Saturday (5/13). Do you plan to play by Wednesday? (Hoping I can get my licks in before I leave.)

H will trade Physics for Combustion and 350 gold, which suggests to me that he is not researching Combustion. Is he going for control of the skies instead of the seas? If so, how much of a threat is that, and how would we combat it? At any rate, lets keep an eye on this. If the trade ceases to be available, it might be time to go after H, beginning by taking out as much of his navy as possible.

Frederiksberg · May 7, 2007

Tough turn set :eek:

. And bad luck that most of our naval forces were committed to the Ottoman offensive so that we were unable to respond to Hannibals attack on Gandhi. No need to panic though - I think we are in a position to attack soon and get Hannibal under control. We could also retake Kolhapur at some point and leave it undefended hoping for an indian revolt to take place (Or for Gandhi to take it back).

Drafting works slightly different from what I expected. It seems that on top of the cap of 3 drafts per turn there is a cap of one draft per city. Doesn't make that much difference though. Note that we can only draft a specific unit! Right now it's rifleman and when Assembly Line is discovered it will be infantry. And the drafted units will only get half the XP as unit built in that particular city (Btw. good that Leif noticed we needed barracks in Bibracte!).

Cactus Pete said:
Frederiksberg, please explain again how you are deducing the uranium and its locations in Carthaginian territory? BTW, I will be gone for three days beginning Saturday (5/13). Do you plan to play by Wednesday? (Hoping I can get my licks in before I leave.)

The position of the uranium can be deduced by using the "yield" display which shows how many hammers, food and commerce the different tiles produce. The uranium gives extra commerce - I think its 4 - when mined. You will also notice that these mines often stand out because they are placed on grassland or plains tiles where you can only put a mine if there is a resource that can be mined.

I expect to play 10 turns wednesday evening CET. Haven't seen the save yet but I hope I will be able to post a todo list no later than tuesday evening.

leif erikson · May 7, 2007

Cactus Pete said:
Well, leif, you had quite a struggle. My idea to use the GA in Istanbul appears to have been a bad one. I do not understand culture. Nonetheless, I think youve brought us out of it in pretty good shape, but Gandhi has certainly been set back a bit.

Thanks, I wasn't too happy with the way things went, especially the loss of Kolhapur. I don't understand how Hannibal got troops to Delhi so quickly. They had to have been up there when he declared. The Galleon near Birka may be heading home empty, but maybe it is not. It is within drop off range of Dehli.

Cactus Pete said:
What else, besides the one artillery unit, has H managed to transport to India? Where are they, and what are they doing?

The center Destroyer north of Kerkouane has not yet been moved and could get to Delhi to have a peek. For me, as our strength is in our Navy, we should use that to kill Hannibal's troops. He is transporting, in general, a Frigate with each Galleon. That means we need four Destroyers to take out a stack of four ships. I was trying to get enough Destroyers between H and Delhi.

Cactus Pete said:
Where is the rest of Hs navy, or is what weve seen what he has? We need to move some destroyers around and see if they bump into anything.

I provided screenshots of the cities I could see and not leave the route to India unprotected. From what we've seen, H's Navy is mostly in Kerkouane. I was thinking that if we go to war, we could make him go into ship production if we destroy enough of them.

Cactus Pete said:
In sum, we need to know if Gandhi remains in immediate jeopardy. If not, then I think we want to wait until we are in a position to take out M quickly and to weaken (or at least pillage) H considerably. If H really only has a few galleons, then we should have the option of sinking them all, along with their escorts, before they reach India. If he puts his best units aboard, well have little choice but to try to do that, but if he puts cavalry and the like on so few ships, Gandhi can probably take care of himself. (He may have done so already, if the lone artillery piece we can see is all there is.)

I'm not sure how the AI decides what to do. What I observed is that he sends offensive units (Cavalry) with siege units and an Infantry or SAM Infantry to cover. Eventually, I think he'll get short of Cavalry and start sending Infantry.

Cactus Pete said:
Why are we building a theatre in Istanbul while our population starves away? Shouldnt we be drafting destroyers instead?

You can not draft when you have less than 10% of your own Nationality in a city. Right now we have 5%. And, as Fredericksberg wrote, you can only draft the best Infantry unit available to you. Right now that is Rifles. I hoped that by building a culture building we might be able to gain some nationality, although I must admit that I'm unsure how this really works. It may be that you have to home grow your own citizens there?

BTW - the culture bomb seems to have slowed down the revolt I was sure was coming in Istanbul. Perhaps it will keep it stable until we're ready to move against Mehmed (well, actually Hannibal).

Cactus Pete said:
It doesnt seem optimal to me to have so many empty galleon anchored off of Istanbul. If we load some of the units now in the city into the galleons and move them two tiles SW of Konya, then not only will they keep an eye on that city but we will also have saved a turn should we want to go after Ankara (and they would still be readily available to help defend Istanbul). Plus, lets sail at least a couple of those galleons and perhaps a transport along the southern ice passage and try to get them in position to eventually be useful should we want to land units on Carthaginian soil.

I agree. At first they were there to evacuate if need be. Then, I needed the Destroyers and the Galleons couldn't go off by themselves without a threat of them being sunk. As the Transports can travel unescorted for now, I think they be the shuttles for our troops from the mainland to the front, and they are much faster. The Galleon can provide the tactical lift at the front for the time being.

Cactus Pete said:
Im thinking that we should use the GG to promote perhaps four cannons with extra city raiders in anticipation of upgrading them to devastating artillery pieces (plus one free upgrade).

This is fine by me. Although it is going to be a while before we have Artillery unless we can get Washington or Hannibal to gift it to us? I have been trying this as well to no avail. Producing Military in Nidaros 50% faster sounded like a deal to me when the ottomans were beating up on our Grenadiers.

Cactus Pete said:
Lets find out what M has in his cities ASAP.

Last I checked, the southern coastal cities had 3 Rifles each in them. I have never had a chance to check on Bursa.

Cactus Pete said:
Now that weve revolted to Nationalism, we can draft a unit in any city in one turn, so I dont think we need to hold the two frigates on coast guard duty near Bibracte. Lets sail them east and then south, serving as scouts as they go, heading for Ottoman territory. They figure to be of some use to us there, or at least they will be in better position to help us in future battles.

I had not moved those units because I had hoped to upgrade them to Destroyers and send them around to have a look at and perhaps bombard Bursa.

Cactus Pete said:
H will trade Physics for Combustion and 350 gold, which suggests to me that he is not researching Combustion. Is he going for control of the skies instead of the seas? If so, how much of a threat is that, and how would we combat it? At any rate, lets keep an eye on this. If the trade ceases to be available, it might be time to go after H, beginning by taking out as much of his navy as possible.

Destroyers provide some protection against aircraft. The primary defense is other aircraft or SAM Infantry.

Provided Mehmed doesn't have too much Artillery, I think we are close to a time when we have to take him on before he gets Infantry. If Konya still has three Rifles in it, we can take it from the sea. Bursa is another problem as we need to march to it and will surely lose at least one unit as I know there is an Artillery unit there because it was outside of Istanbul and left with the signing of a Cease Fire agreement. Taking Thaenae is another problem (the Carthaginian city near Turfan). But I think that goes along with declaring on Hannibal? Part of the reason I took a risk with Kolhapur was not being ready to take out this city. Our cities around it are defended by Spears or Warriors. Everything else was shipped to Istanbul and I couldn't replace it due to the 4-turn anarchy.

Frederiksberg · May 7, 2007

Cactus Pete said:
H will trade Physics for Combustion and 350 gold, which suggests to me that he is not researching Combustion. Is he going for control of the skies instead of the seas? If so, how much of a threat is that, and how would we combat it? At any rate, lets keep an eye on this. If the trade ceases to be available, it might be time to go after H, beginning by taking out as much of his navy as possible.

He won't be building any aircrafts for a while because all the early airborne units require oil and I don't see where he can get oil. I very much doubt that Izzy is willing to deal with him and Washington only has one oil resource on land since we captured the second one using cultural pressure from Vienne.

Cactus Pete · May 7, 2007

Im grateful for the education received regarding drafting and uranium.

We could also retake Kolhapur at some point and leave it undefended hoping for an indian revolt to take place (Or for Gandhi to take it back).

Is a city more likely to revolt if it is undefended, or would we lose any units in the city if a revolt occurs? If neither, why not leave unit(s) and a galleon there to be moved should Gandhis navy show?

If we are going to produce infantry on a regular basis in Bibracte, then we need to get a transport ship of some kind there.

I provided screenshots of the cities I could see and not leave the route to India unprotected. From what we've seen, H's Navy is mostly in Kerkouane. I was thinking that if we go to war, we could make him go into ship production if we destroy enough of them.

Leif, your screen shots were appreciated. Your thoughts mirror mine. In addition, we should be able to give him reason to build work boats.

I'm not sure how the AI decides what to do. What I observed is that he sends offensive units (Cavalry) with siege units and an Infantry or SAM Infantry to cover. Eventually, I think he'll get short of Cavalry and start sending Infantry.

I anticipate that, as soon as we sink one convoy, hell stop attacking and start defending, which suggests we make that first convoy a valuable one.

If we have to go to war within the next six or seven turns, it might be smart to first trade Combustion to H for Physics, especially if it looks like well be able to sink most of his frigates at the onset. Also appealing (should our hand not be forced) is to put science on 0% after researching Assembly Line to have gold for upgrading our grenadiers, anticipating such a trade just before we choose to go to war. Im thinking (1) Id rather have H building destroyers than more defending land units, and (2) with our superior naval numbers (and more in production), we should still be able to control the oceans while getting to artillery quicker, .

Would be nice to get a sentry naval unit in place somewhere around Karachi.

I expect to play 10 turns wednesday evening CET. Haven't seen the save yet but I hope I will be able to post a todo list no later than tuesday evening.

Sounds good. I will try and look at your plan late Tuesday night (or earlier, if available). Also, as I will have only two days to get my turn in, hope everyone will provide me with advice soon after Frederiksberg posts his save.

Frederiksberg said:
He won't be building any aircrafts for a while because all the early airborne units require oil and I don't see where he can get oil. I very much doubt that Izzy is willing to deal with him and Washington only has one oil resource on land since we captured the second one using cultural pressure from Vienne.

Also, good to hear.

Bede · May 7, 2007

Since Hannibal has Uranium selling him Combustion will put our naval tactics at some risk as he will now be able to build Destroyers and upgrade his fleet.

And we need to let India develop its fleet instead of sending it to the bottom. They will need to get troops to Kohlapur once that becomes feasible if we retake it and then abandon the city to its fate.

The AI generally makes a single sortie with its navy and if that has any success it will send out a second one, so long as they think they have naval superiority. If you can show them a real navy - four destroyers should be enough, and sink a frigate or two, they will remain in their ports, or send the ships on net pillaging missions.

The trick in this situation is that Hannibal can use Kohlapur as a coasting bolt hole and get there in one from is mainland and then be on Gandhi's soil in another if I read the map right. Though sometimes they can surprise you and do an end around, so mapping out the waters to Hannibal's NE and setting the fleet up for mutual support while at the same time covering as much sight as possible is the way to proceed.

Frederiksberg · May 7, 2007

Cactus Pete said:
Im grateful for the education received regarding drafting and uranium.

I think we are all learning something here

. At least I was unaware of the (per city) drafting cap and the cultural 10% limit.

Cactus Pete said:
Is a city more likely to revolt if it is undefended, or would we lose any units in the city if a revolt occurs? If neither, why not leave unit(s) and a galleon there to be moved should Gandhis navy show?

Yes, with fewer defenders the city will revolt more easily. An indian revolt would be the preferred way to give back Kolhapur to Gandhi because if he captures it from us it will increase his WW.

Bede said:
Since Hannibal has Uranium selling him Combustion will put our naval tactics at some risk as he will now be able to build Destroyers and upgrade his fleet.

I also see this as a problem because he has uranium in at least 3 places and it might be difficult to arrange for all these to be pillaged immediately.

Cactus Pete · May 7, 2007

Bede said:
Since Hannibal has Uranium selling him Combustion will put our naval tactics at some risk as he will now be able to build Destroyers and upgrade his fleet.

And we need to let India develop its fleet instead of sending it to the bottom. They will need to get troops to Kohlapur once that becomes feasible if we retake it and then abandon the city to its fate.

I have no desire to sink any more of G's navy, and I understand that H would be able to build destroyers. My argument is that it may be preferable for him to build them rather than land units to defend his cities. We are in a better position to deal with destroyers, as I think most would be likely to stay in port anyway.

Trading for Physics rather than researching it saves turns, several of which we will soon lose in order to gain the gold to upgrade our grenadiers -- plus it catches us up with Washington a bit, and he is probably going to be our biggest long-term problem. If we are in a position to sink most of H's frigates initially, the trade is surely worth considering seriously.

I had not recognized H's ability to get to Kohlapur in one turn. Would it be practical to blockade that?

leif erikson · May 7, 2007

Almost forgot the roster??
Frederiksberg - UP
Cactus Pete - On Deck
Gator
RRAU
Bede
Sanabas
Leif - hiding under his bed!!

Interesting discussion.
I am hesitant to give up Combustion. He can use Uranium to build both Destroyers and Transports. We do not know what else he has and, should he obtain Industrialism, then he has Battleships that will also run on Uranium. His Navy is his achillies heal at the moment and I think we might be better off keeping it that way. It isolates him for the moment.

He does not have Open Borders with Izzy, so we are more or less safe in former Celt territory. Anything we have in the Ottoman area would be subject to attack. That might not be a bad thing as his forces may get diverted there and they won't be in his territory. That means we should be ready to strike where we get an opportunity.

I have to go, will think some more and get back...

Frederiksberg · May 7, 2007

Had a look at the save.

The Combustion for Physics deal is tempting in order to catch up techwise. You could also argue that getting Physics puts us closer to Artillery and that might help us even more than it helps Hannibal to get Combustion. Right now we are suffering from the fact that our units are to weak to battle against Hannibal.

Right now it seems possible to eliminate 4 of Hannibals Frigates and maybe even more if we can persuade some of them to sail towards India. Our main problem is that we are vulnerable to an attack in Istanbul and we don't have any forces we can land and start pillaging the uranium. I don't think Hannibals troops in Thaenae will leave the city and attack. Getting any rifles to Istanbul takes at least 4 turns. Question is if we can afford to wait 4 turns hoping that the tech deal is still available then. Or maybe fewer turns if Hannibals frigates leave for India where they can't be upgraded. In that case we could do the tech deal a little earlier and wait with the war declaration until Istanbul is reinforced with some rifles and a machine gun. When we get Assembly Line after 6 turns we should be reasonably safe because we can draft infantry in case of trouble. We need, of course, to keep an eye on Hannibals galleons to prevent unpleasant surprises like infantry landing on our shores

Cactus Pete · May 7, 2007

Frederiksberg said:
Had a look at the save.

The Combustion for Physics deal is tempting in order to catch up techwise. You could also argue that getting Physics puts us closer to Artillery and that might help us even more than it helps Hannibal to get Combustion.

Yes.

Right now it seems possible to eliminate 4 of Hannibals Frigates and maybe even more if we can persuade some of them to sail towards India. Our main problem is that we are vulnerable to an attack in Istanbul and we don't have any forces we can land and start pillaging the uranium. I don't think Hannibals troops in Thaenae will leave the city and attack. Getting any rifles to Istanbul takes at least 4 turns. Question is if we can afford to wait 4 turns hoping that the tech deal is still available then. Or maybe fewer turns if Hannibals frigates leave for India where they can't be upgraded. In that case we could do the tech deal a little earlier and wait with the war declaration until Istanbul is reinforced with some rifles and a machine gun. When we get Assembly Line after 6 turns we should be reasonably safe because we can draft infantry in case of trouble. We need, of course, to keep an eye on Hannibals galleons to prevent unpleasant surprises like infantry landing on our shores

It's not such a great trade that we can't afford to wait.

SGOTM 04 - Xteam

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Game of the Month Fanatic

Deity

Deity

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