SGOTM 04 - Xteam

[Frederiksberg]

We should be able to take Tacape, Utica and Hadrumetum next turn. Chances of capturing Sicca next turn are very small. I would rather lave Hannibal with only Tacape so maybe the best way forward is to wait a turn or two and reinforce the attack on Sicca somehow.

Should I try to extort a tech before attacking?

I also think we could put the GE to better use by rushing a building or wonder. I think the best help we can give Gandhi right now is to beeline for Fiber Optics, build the Internet in e.g. Upsala and turn that city over to Gandhi. I think the GE can get us half way there. With the internet Gandhi will get all techs known by at least two other civs. This means that we actually benefit a lot from keeping Washington in the game for as long as possible (and Hannibal too since that might give us a couple of techs ourselves when we build the internet.

 

[leif erikson]

We should be able to take Tacape, Utica and Hadrumetum next turn. Chances of capturing Sicca next turn are very small. I would rather lave Hannibal with only Tacape so maybe the best way forward is to wait a turn or two and reinforce the attack on Sicca somehow.

Yes, I think this would be the best course.

Should I try to extort a tech before attacking?

How do you do this? When I play with it, we must sign peace for a tech? I tried to get a cease fire and it won't even consider it.

W is pleased with us, he may give us one just because we're so nice!!

I also think we could put the GE to better use by rushing a building or wonder. I think the best help we can give Gandhi right now is to beeline for Fiber Optics, build the Internet in e.g. Upsala and turn that city over to Gandhi. I think the GE can get us half way there. With the internet Gandhi will get all techs known by at least two other civs. This means that we actually benefit a lot from keeping Washington in the game for as long as possible (and Hannibal too since that might give us a couple of techs ourselves when we build the internet.

This is a very interesting idea. The cost to build the Internet is 3000 Hammer. If we had a couple of Great Engineers, that might be doable. My estimate to completion would be about 45 turns to get Fiber Optics, less with a Great Engineer and then another 60 to 70 turns to build it, unless we have some Great Engineers available to help out with some rush hammers.

I also think we need to keep H in the game because of his tech lead.

Thanks Frederiksberg for being able to switch.

 

[Bede]

Don't forget that as long as we hold Carthage we also hold the Kremlin So perhaps a combination of an Engineer or two and maybe some cash if we are in the right civic will finish the deal posthaste.

 

[leif erikson]

Don't forget that as long as we hold Carthage we also hold the Kremlin So perhaps a combination of an Engineer or two and maybe some cash if we are in the right civic will finish the deal posthaste.

Only problem is that Fiber Optics makes the Kremlin obsolete.

However, having copper doubles the production speed of the Internet, so now we're down to 1500 hammers, half the time.

 

[Frederiksberg]

How do you do this? When I play with it, we must sign peace for a tech? I tried to get a cease fire and it won't even consider it.

Yes, I didn't make myself clear. What I meant is have 10 turns of peace in return for a tech and then attack.

This is a very interesting idea. The cost to build the Internet is 3000 Hammer. If we had a couple of Great Engineers, that might be doable. My estimate to completion would be about 45 turns to get Fiber Optics, less with a Greta Engineer and then another 60 to 70 turns to build it, unless we have some Great Engineers available to help out with some rush hammers.

We already have a Great Engineer. And double production speed with access to copper. Finally - as Bede noted - we have the Kremlin and could cash rush with a 30% discount if we switch to Universal Suffrage. Our tech speed will also improve considerably when the Punic War is over and we can set the culture slider back to 0%. We could start building science in some cities as CP suggested. Conclusion is, that we could have the Internet ready much faster than your initial estimate suggests.

 

[leif erikson]

Yes, I didn't make myself clear. What I meant is have 10 turns of peace in return for a tech and then attack.

I'm not sure we want to wait those 10 turns.

We already have a Great Engineer. And double production speed with access to copper. Finally - as Bede noted - we have the Kremlin and could cash rush with a 30% discount if we switch to Universal Suffrage. Our tech speed will also improve considerably when the Punic War is over and we can set the culture slider back to 0%. We could start building science in some cities as CP suggested. Conclusion is, that we could have the Internet ready much faster than your initial estimate suggests.

We crossed. We won't have The Kremlin benefits.

Is the effect of The Internet passed on to however captures it? If so, I think this is the way to go to get G caught up and working on Space Ship parts.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Is the effect of The Internet passed on to however captures it? If so, I think this is the way to go to get G caught up and working on Space Ship parts.

I double checked and I'm afraid we can't give it away because it's a project not a wonder as I assumed to begin with .

 

[Cactus Pete]

Well, it sounded like a good idea.

What's the thinking on getting out of Nationhood right now, during our two more turns of war and one more to get out of ww? If so, we should draft wherever we want to before changing this turn. Upsalla would be a possibility, as it's the best city to let G take, but perhaps we don't want to diminish its value.

I'm with leif . . . let's get H down to Tacape, sign a peace treaty (hopefully for some tech and perhaps Free Religion), and get on with research.

 

[Frederiksberg]

My plans for the next 10 turns:

1. Regroup and attack Sicca, Utica and Hadrumetum in the same turn. Then make peace with Hannibal - hopefully in exchange for a tech.

2. Change civics immediately as CP suggests. I guess Free Speech will be huge now. We probably have 60+ towns for more than 120 gpt extra with Free Speech. We can do another civic change "for free" without increasing the number of turns of anarchy. I suggest we change from Police State to Representation. With 20+ specialist we gain more than 60 bpt. This seems more important than being able to cash rush (and gaining hammers from towns).

3. Finalize research of Industrialization. Start research of Flight.

4. Build a work boat for Leptis and move workers there to chop Lighthouse.

5. Micro cities for maximum beaker output - maybe build science in some cities.

I don't want to use our GE just yet. We could still help Gandhi a little by building the Space Elevator in Birka or Upsala and then give him the city and I would like to reserve the GE for that purpose.

I plan to play tomorrow so please post your comments and suggestion before then.

 

[rrau]

There's a workboat sitting somewhere, I just can't recall where it's at right now.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Is good plan.

Since we can build the Space Elevator in Birka, I'm ready to give G Upsalla now. What's the team's view on that?

Also . . . What should we do about Kolhapur? If we are going to try to direct G to the north, shouldn't we develop it a bit for ourselves, even if we are intending to let G have it later? Forges, for instance, usually survive capture.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Since we can build the Space Elevator in Birka, I'm ready to give G Upsalla now. What's the team's view on that?

Don't mind giving one more city to Gandhi. Before we give up even more cities I would, however, like to get a spy into Delhi to see how bad WW is.

 

[leif erikson]

I agree, good plan Frederiksberg!

Since we can build the Space Elevator in Birka, I'm ready to give G Upsalla now. What's the team's view on that?

I agree with this as well. G can put it to immediate use. He controls the food for that city now. With that, he can use all the gold mines that are available to him. Should give him a bit of a boost in research.

Also . . . What should we do about Kolhapur? If we are going to try to direct G to the north, shouldn't we develop it a bit for ourselves, even if we are intending to let G have it later? Forges, for instance, usually survive capture.

I think we may have this city for some time. May as well start building it up.

As we're planning to give up some prime real estate, any clear choice for our new Palace location? Perhaps in W's territory?

 

[Cactus Pete]

"As we're planning to give up some prime real estate, any clear choice for our new Palace location? Perhaps in W's territory?"

Now that's being farsighted. If there's no great choice, couldn't we let the game do it for us and then build another if we think a change is worth the time and hammers.

 

[leif erikson]

Now that's being farsighted. If there's no great choice, couldn't we let the game do it for us and then build another if we think a change is worth the time and hammers.

I was just thinking that if we don't choose, the game will assign it. It will use whatever criteria, which I think is size and rank. As we allow cities to be taken by G, the capital will bounce around. If that is fine with everyone, it is OK by me.

I was wondering if we gain anything by placing it ourselves? Are there any war weariness consequence to repeatedly losing your capital city? Or are there any for G?

 

[Frederiksberg]

Things went according to plan - or almost according to plan because Gandhi went for Tartar (instead of Upsala) and I decided to give it up. He also founded Punjab near Tartar. Flight is in and the tech pace is good so we should be able to catch up.

Pre-turn:

Send some more troops in direction of Sicca. Switch build to work boat in Ningh-Hsia. Start converting farms to water mills for extra hammers and gold. Draft units in Bibracte and Istanbul. Start forge in Kolhapur. Change civics to Free Speech and Representation.

1816 AD: Regrouping. Artillery attacks from Sicca but loses. Some damage to stack. Gandhi moves Ironclad from Delhi.
1817 AD: Attack Sicca. Starting with artillery. First one withdraws. Second one dies. First two infantry loose 50-50 battles. Next two looses with 70-80% winning chances. Fortunately enough reinforcements are available and the remaining 90+ battles are all won and Sicca is captured with the last (!!) available unit. Utica is next. First artillery dies. Next one wins a 30% battle. The rest is easy for our infantry. Attack Hadrumetum last. Two artillery are sacrificed and the 3rd wins. The Infantry mops up. I negotiate peace with Hannibal in return for Industrialization and H. adopting Free Religion. New research is set to Flight. Gandhi approaches Tartar with 3 Galleons. I sink one of them to minimize the number of troops he can land. Consider giving Tartar to him.
1818 AD: Gandhi lands 4 Cavalry, 1 Elephant and one xbow next to Tartar. I decide to give up the city even though it would probably be defendable by reinforcing with infantry. Hannibal becomes Izzys vassal. Hopefully this means that some of his techs will benefit her and in the end also Gandhi. Anarchy has ended and I micro our cities to stop starvation etc.
1819 AD: Gandhi captures Tartar as expected. Kill the elephant and the xbow that was sent to pillage. Carthage is now filled with our troops and chance of revolt is zero. We now have 51% of all land and 3 cities are yet to come out of anarchy. Sink a couple of Indian frigates.
1820 AD: Replace fishing boats at Ning-hsia. Start new work boats for Kolhapur and Leptis. Move infantry and artillery near Tartar to contain Gandhi's cavalry.
1821 AD: Gandhi is moving a couple of galleons. Maybe trying to reinforce Tartar?
1822 AD: Kill 3 out of 4 cavalry in Tartar. Less to worry about now.
1823 AD: Start building courthouse in Copper Mountain - for Gandhis benefit when he takes over.
1824 AD: Gandhi lands 2 rifles and a settler near Tartar. Flight is discovered. I select Radio as next tech.
1825 AD: Washington completes the Apollo Program. All Carthaginian cities out of revolt and culture expanded. We control 54% of the land.

Handover notes:

The work boats are intended for Kolhapur, Leptis, Kerkouane and Carthage (When we gain cultural control of the crab and fish). I was thinking about building West Point in New Sarai and Wall Street in Karakorum. Depends on how many cities we plan to give away. Washington will trade us Radio, map and 1120 g in return for Flight. Maybe we should go for this deal.

The save:

1825 AD

 

[leif erikson]

Nice work Frederiksberg!

Got to go and have a look at the save.

Roster:
Cactus Pete - UP
Leif - On Deck
Gator
Bede
RRAU
Sanabas
Frederiksberg - just played

How are you fixed for playing time CP? If you have time, you may as well grab it as I won't be playing until at least Tuesday. If not, I'll amend the roster and prepare to play then...

EDIT - Just looked at the save. A couple of quick questions/observations.
I don't think I would make the deal with W, especially if he is next up for the picking? Trading him flight allows him Bombers as well and I think that will be our advantage over him. I can't decide whether we should wait until he starts making rocket parts or go after him real soon? If our research continues to be good, perhaps we should take him out and then we can feed them tech that will, hopefully, get to G. It looks like everyone is better in diplomacy rating with G than with us, except W. The war would drive him that way.

I think it was for the best that Izzie picked up H as her Vassal.
Izzy still has only Rifles and, I think I saw a Machine Gun, defending.

They all have Rocketry, except G, so I'm sure Apollo is in the works somewhere.

I think the best way to encourage tech movement to G is to make them all friendly to G by attacking them, "Mutual enemy" diplo plus?

 

[Bede]

Washington is our biggest threat as a competitor to Gandhi, yet trading him Flight for Radio and cash is a good deal, unless Rocketry allows him jets, I've forgotten, as jet fighters will eat our bombers.

The AI does not make good use of bombers, preferring to use them as pillaging tools rather than striking at units so I have little concern that way. They will build lots of jet fighters though, if they can, and those weasels will tear up a bomber fleet.

Nice piece of business, there, Fred! The last thing I would have expected is Hannibal going on bended knee to the Queen!

 

[Cactus Pete]

I will be able to play, though slowly. Modern technologies and especially warfare are unfamiliar to me. Haven't used aircraft or tanks since CivII, and I doubt I'll remember much of that. I am going to have a long look at the save and come back with questions and suggestions to elicit feedback and recommendations.

Would like to understand . . . " Carthage is now filled with our troops and chance of revolt is zero." Do troops prevent revolts, or are the two unrelated?

 

[Bede]

Cultural Conversion calculations include the size of the garrison, and the more troops the better for our purposes.

If you run the cursor over the culture bars in the lower left hand of the city screen one of them will report the probability of flippage. When there is no probability of flippage in the report the town is safe from conversion.

If it is really important to hold a town against involuntary conversion to another nation just stuff it full of troops until the chance of a revolt disappears.