IMO we should destroy or conquer everything on the big continent first. After it we´ll send our troops to conquer Saladin´s cities while we are building a lot of settlers which we will spawn on the big continent to win by domination. The advantage is that we don´t need to tech to astronomy which we would need to get to the island of Quin and Alex. Although we might reach Alex through the cultural bridge given by his cities.
The number of cottages per city depends on the number of tiles the city can work. IMO we should research pottery right after IW then go for construction. As two galleys will be enough to transport our units to the big continent there is no need to hurry and we can invent Sailing later.
We will build our cities on our island and we will need a couple of workers to chop some jungle tiles and to send one or two of them to build roads on the big continent to let our units move faster overthere.
We don't want a cottage economy for conquering the world...our research will die and it will be a struggle to finish off the continent. Pottery can wait...we are getting some free beakers right now in it, we'll get more soon, and Writing is more important for our research.
Sorry have not been posting. Had other stuff on.
Are we building pyramids in 3rd city? Are we worried we might get beat towards it?
Reagrding a specialist economy when we go all war 0% science we will still need money (ie cottages) to pay for war machine. IA m generally concnered at that.
Agree with making peace with saladin? Myabe alex as well havent looked at his island yet.
During war, most of our money can come from 0-40% research and from taking over cities. Our research will come from specialists. I've never had cash be a problem in war games, except when I attempt to do research at the same time using the sliders.
Just because they say they want Beshbalik, does that mean they won't make peace for less? We won't know until we try, but what is everyone's experience with that?
I like pyramids myself, and I think that is the first task for copper city. At one point our barbs had pillaged Cyrus' stone ... didn't look to see if he's hooked it back up. But with three forest chops (after math if we can get there fast enough) and perhaps three hills we can work (depending on WW), we should have a good shot.
In my experience, the AI will not give up more than it says they will in 'what will it take for peace', and they will also never take less than they suggest through that same method.
1. After IW, what tech path? Writing>math is good to chop mids, early pottery allows early cottaging (early granaries don't matter much give WW issue), and when to get sailing? Maybe beeline to cats and let sailing and pottery come in for free?
With low pop early, I say wait on pottery, go writing>math.
I agree with writing>math. Pottery will get more and more beakers for free soon, and Sailing will begin getting them soon as well.
2. What to build in copper city? Start on mids right away? Barracks first? No need to make units until we have ships to take them somewhere.
I'd start mids right away.
Agreed here as well, Mids are the most important of the things we can build in city 3.
3. What builds in other cities? We need one settler for the culture bridge city, and more workers (total of 4 perhaps?), as some will go to build the barbs (the "Peace Corps?")
dV
I've got both Karak and Beshbalik working on workers right now, which would give us 3 workers, we can keep building them as we want, it'll keep our cities at size 2 and give us plenty of workers and the rest of our settlers...that should be plenty to hook up the horses and chop down all those jungles.
As for the culture bridge, we do need to get that settler going either right now or after building the worker in Karak because the barbs don't care about our fogbusting, so they could settle a city in that area.
Well i don't think we need the Pyramids and it is very possible to miss it. In my longer tests AI get them around 500BC(don't know which turn that means).
About Pottery - we will get it soon for free so i vote for Writng directly.
My exp is that when the AI want a town for peace the peace is possible with giving the AI tech or money instead. The trouble here is that we need Alfabet and currency for these stuff.
We have horses in the FC. We need to hook them very soon - 4 hammers and 2comerce!!!
What would we do without the Pyramids though? How would we combat the WW we will undoubtedly get during this game without having access to Police State? I actually think that in terms of overall strategy, that's a bigger reason than Representation to try to get it.
-50% WW and +25% military production will be huge this game...and I believe that barbs will get the pyramids bonus also? I think teams usually both get the bonuses, if so, they could get +25% military production inside their cities as well.
Pyramids may be the most controversial issue for the next few turnsets. More on that below.
Pyramids ... The availability of police state could be key to this game, particularly if we are able to give the barbs good military techs. Representation is useful too (can't run both at the same time
).
Can we get it before the AI, and what do we sacrifice to do that? How many cats, swords, axes and galleys could we make instead of the 'mids? That is the tradeoff. But if we are cash poor, we can't afford many troops, so is police state critical for a large army? What if the AI never want to make peace? I had a game once where late into it, at war with three at once, WW had each city only working the city tile!
Luckily I was able to make peace with at least one to fix that.
A pile of troops waiting for ships will just cost us money and slow our teching.
I can see the 'mids question going either way ... we need a calculation of what turn we could get it by if we chase it, and how that compares to 500 BC.
We need to solve the mids question before g_s plays next.
dV
I doubt the AI gets Pyramids at 500BC. raging barbs slows them down, and I rarely see the Pyramids built before 300BC in most games(unless some wonder happy AI is in the game, which we don't have other than Qin, who appears to have no stone)
So I think it is eminently possible for us to get it.
Pottery is 234 beakers, we have 11 or so now. 2 or 3 free BPT puts us 70 to 100 turns from getting it free. So we either have a long wait, or at some point we do it ourselves. I am willing to go writing > math first ... we can always jump on pottery if we decide later we really need it.
Pyramids ... 675 hammers. With math and stone, each chop is 90, so with three forests in the fat cross, 270 hammers from that. 405 left ... pop 2 working copper and a mine is 7 hammers plus city hammer is 8, doubled to 16.
405 / 16 = 25.3 so 26 turns to build the mids. So lets say by turn 130 we can do it ... that is 550 BC. Problem is, we can't get math that fast ... writing is 20 and math is another 49. So chops are less, only 60 each for 180 ... 90 more hammers the hard way. At 16 hpt, that is 5 more turns. A whip at the end could be worth those 5 turns, so we might get mids by 500 BC.
Qin is the only industrious AI, right? I don't see him having stone so far, so I think mids are within reach.
So the debate is do we want to do something else with the hammers? If we build troops instead, then I think we need sailing next to put them on ships. No point having them idle and costing gold for nothing.
I tend to be unable to resist building, so if Lehm or hellwitch strongly prefer forsaking wonders for early attack (without cats at this stage), I would be willing to try that out. But if we are not going to attack before cats, then stocking troops will just burn up our gold, and we have nothing better to do than mids. If we miss it, we will be rich, so it is win-win.
I think worker next in Karak so we have enough for fast development of copper city.
dV
I also tend to build more than I should...but then, if I were playing this game solo, I would go for the Henge and for the Pyramids whether I was going to attempt a military or a diplo victory. Those two are important for both, although Henge is more important for a military victory when Astro isn't required.
I also think that R1's plans for MM for next turnset are pretty accurate. I'd just insert a workboat or 2 for exploring, if we want cities to grow. OTOH, I'd like to hear a more detailed alternative plan from Lehm and hw if they're against it. Like "build x,y attack z when we have n techs/troops, etc".
