SGOTM 05 - Misfits

[cnwjr]

Got it!

We are all alone on our island.

India, Persia and Japan are all together on what seems to be a large continent. Saladin is on a largish island south of us.

I think it is a bit early to be working on a worker. We only have three forests near us and BW is still quite a ways away. Perhaps a settler would be best? There is a nice spot to the S with clams and stone possible, and we do not have to worry about escorting the settler.

I think I will have not much to do in this turnset, but we should do a bit of planning.

What are our goals? How do we want to win? Conquest? Domination? Cultural? Being alone, we can go cultural fairly easily. Otherwise, we have to build up a navy and invade. I personally would go cultural if playing alone and without the barbs.

I will give this a bit of time (until midday tomorrow) before I play the turnset.

In the future, be aware that I am probably only going to be able to contribute Fri-Sun, so if my turn comes up early in the week, it would be best to switch with the next person in the queue.

 

[Softnum]

Well, if we're alone, then Axe rush isn't a good idea. Maybe Set -> Work, and the Set pops to claim Bronze? With BW, I think barb axes will spawn.

Since we've met everyone already, an rush to OPtics isn't as totally nessicary as it would be in a 'normal' game. Can we get to Saladin with a Galley?

Earliest non-war victory is going to be cultural. Do we have the land mass for that? We have stone, if we get Marble, it might be possible to pull off.

 

[Piko]

cnwjr: Here is lies the problem. its a tasty little island but the directive is fastest victory? what can we get fastest victory doing?

 

[Piko]

aaah you beat me softy. We could go culture... our building ability sucks royaly but. Cottage spam and buy our buildings? could be possible? it's great financial land. pump out great artists and engineers? We'd need to rush the remaining religous techs. there a lot of discussion no matter what we decide. Lets hope some other people have some ideas to add

Edit: We need minimum 6 cities to go culture, but i'd prefer 9! perhaps if we can build 6 on this island and see if we can't find another island nearby for another 3.... would that do it? Assuming we avoid incurring any unit costs we should be able to win by mid 1800's culturally... Well it would suit me better i guess, i've never attempted an archipelago conquest... The cost in shipping and distance to enemy factors will hurt. We don't want our enemy units upgraded by the time we get our units there.

I can easily forsee a cargo of keshik's taking down saladin, and perhaps conquering the mainland of 3 civs. But the other 2 civs are likely to expand to these now empty islands... I''m sorry if i'm stating the obvious, but i think we should work out a plan *nods*

 

[cnwjr]

I don't think cultural would really work best in this situation. It would not make the best advantage of our barb allies. We also are on an island of about 70 squares and 60% of that is jungle.

I've not had a lot of experience (which is why I'm here) but I think domination is probably our best bet as conquest is much harder in general, and by the time we have managed to reach everyone due to having to build ships as well as combat units they will probably be too strong to take out.

We can probably take out those who are not all gathered together, such as Saladin. We have only seen about 25% of the map so far and there are still a few civs we haven't found.

A few civs would be willing to make peace with us if we choose, though I seriously doubt we could ever get them to formally ally with us to aid in our domination.

Unless I see some serious objections, I will switch to a settler as our next build, with the intent of settling near the stone/clams for wonder aid. BW is still important for slavery and we will need to build up population in the long run. Of course, the only luxury item on our island (so far as it isn't quite fully explored) is dye.

The map so far seems to be a modified archipelago as the islands are mostly somewhat substantial.

 

[cnwjr]

As expected, a pretty boring turnset.

Played 20 turns.

Highlights: changed build to settler

3280BC Discovered Isabella on main continent along with other 3.

3250BC Qin found on island to our NE.

3100BC Alex found on island to W of main continent. Everyone is now found.

2980BC Archery Discovered! Hinduism founded.

2920BC Alex converts to Hinduism.

2830BC BW! Changed to fishing & started revolution. Qin has 2nd city.

Copper is on our island to the SW. Saladin has a settler,archer moving out.

2800BC Revolution done.

 

[failedreality]

We could go culture... our building ability sucks royaly but. Cottage spam and buy our buildings? could be possible? it's great financial land.

Maybe I'm too new to figure this out but why or what reason do you have to say that our building ability sucks royally..?

Just curious..

~fr

 

[Piko]

well done cnwjr. Ok my points on your movements.
Who discovered archery? = P we are not defending anything? I hope it wasnt us yet! As for revolution. One thing i tend to do is wait until i have slavery and organised religion before i would ever bother to actually change civics, change both at once, only 1 turn of anarchy *wink*

btw, i thought it was 10 turns? hehehe all goodly. Yer if we can get a foothold on that main island perhaps we could take it all and get domination. But i don't understand how you find domination easier than conquest? I don't think i could ever achieve domination prior to communism, Can't afford the upkeep myself.

 

[Piko]

failed: cause we have all grassland/jungle and not enough hills. ofcourse... i don't mind jungle, juicy grasslands underneath are a gold mine, literally.

Edit: we have great financial land, cottage spam galore i say, who's with me??!?!!?

And yes settler next on cue is agreed by me

 

[cnwjr]

Archery came via our partners, the barbs. You will notice in the research category that we have points towards several techs. The barbs get free research based on how many others know the tech.

I played 20 turns to continue as started. In the early turns there is nothing really to do (especially as we are alone on our island). I've seen several other (older) GOTMs where the first rounds are 20/20/20/15/15/15 until actual contact is made whereupon 10 turns is typical.

 

[Softnum]

Just a note, I'm at the Family's for some of today. I'll be trying to pick up the save tonight or Monday Night, just FYI.

 

[Piko]

cnwjr: aye aye all good mate, pointless at the start if you get 10 turns and just have to hit "end turn" 10 times and nothing else

 

[Softnum]

I got the save, opened it.

What's priorities? We go fishing to get Galley and sail around a bit? We want to settine Bronze first or stone? Bronze city I would put 1W of Bronze. DO we do Stone/CLam/Gold city 1E of Stone? Or 1E of Gold gets us Stone/Gold/Rice, and more land vs. Sea/Ocean. 1E of Gold is a ways away tho, as far as maintainence goes.

Research we need:
Sailing (Fishing): to get a Galley to explore / fine more neighbors to kills.
Animal Husbandry (Hunting or Agri): Pigs.
Iron Working: CUt Jungle.

Hunting and/or Agriculture will probably come in from Barbarian Bleed soonish. Agri already has 88 beakers in it.

Anything I"m missing? What order is the tech needs?

I'm probably going to play my turns tomorrow night (in about 24 hours) so anything you want to say, please say before that.

 

[Piko]

OK well we have enough room for about 9 cities on our land. That is perfect for a cultural victory? If we can get 3 religions we would do it easy. Thats just a suggestion. However, Saladin will be very weak. He is currently sending a settler out with an archer i notice, but seems he will only have 3 decent cities, the rest of his land is junk.

As for city location? I like clam/stone/dyes. We get 2 hills plus the stone that way. A half decent production city, we gonna need it. Then we can build a rice gold city later. The gold would be useful early, but I am also worried about maintenance, and would consider building that city 3rd of 4th. And probably 2E of the gold on that river for extra health, that still leaves room for a tiny city on the far south east, it would share tiles with the gold/rice city but they would only be desert, so whats the difference? Also we will have fishing so can get the clam quick.

I'm keen to tech up to Iron Working. If we have Iron that is another vital resource for production which we need. And we have some nice land which is smothered in jungle which just has to go! Sooner the better i say! That and Animal Husbandry.

Furthermore, that continent scares me a little i have to say. India, Spain, Persia, Japan... and Greece just off the coast. It's monarch level, and they will tech trade a lot! if we planned a load of keshiks to get there, they would already have feudalism! Saladin we could kill easy, he wont be much of an ally, but any tech trade we can get will be needed after alphabet.

As for cultural victory, We'd need masonry and religous techs and early wonders! B-line for code of laws to get courthouses. But gee, i don't know who else thinks cultural will be easy? If we started on the continent, then conquest/domination I would consider as options. On this island so far away? If we tried to conquer? I think cultural will be quicker?

 

[Piko]

OK we need a vote really don't we? if we don't decide 100% on what sort of victory we want to go for, then we wont take the best early direction. So what are our options? remembering fastest winning time i what we require.

As we have 3 serious options, lets have a look at them. And then everyone can have a vote and and we can make a plan and get a better idea of what we gonna tech.

Conquest: cnwjr makes a good point here, sending troups over such long distance will see them possibly obsolete by the time they arrive, and the islands are of decent size, aswell as the main continent, thats a lot of movement points for a lot of troups, and a lot of extra ships will need to be built. Financially, conquest is a better option than domination as maintenance costs can be crippling.

Domination: Also, as cnwjr has aluded to, keeping cities when taken allows new units to be created locally to the battle, also they can be upgraded when they get there instead of obsolete. this will make our forces stronger, and the reduced time to build an army will mean for a speedier completion. Also as we wouldn't have to try to kill everyone, and civs running away and building new cities on another would cease to be a problem. We would also be able to support a larger army!

With this in mind, I have to state i've never conducted a domination victory before, however... It is indeed a viable option, i assume with some proper financial planning it could be very successful?

Cultural: We have the perfect land for a cultural victory, though perhaps a few less hammers than i would hope for, we can deffinately pull off an easy cultural victory there is no doubt about it, but the question is ofcourse, time. Even though its our easiest option, can we do this quicker than domination?

I will vote for Domination victory, I like a challenge

 

[Softnum]

I don't see 9 cities fitting on this land mass. Maybe a dotmap?

Domination seems like the natural choice, but Sea -> Land war can be hard.

I'm going to go Sailing->AH->IW at this point in time, and get a city up for Bronze. That should cover 20 turns.

 

[Piko]

Aye I had a look, 6 good cities on that island i guess, but when you consider for cultural that its only 3 cities that matter, 9 will fit happily on that landmass, other 6 just concentrating on gold and building temples .

Anyhow! Agree with the teching, and perfect city location 1W of bronze, very much so saladin isnt going to know what hit him

 

[Mauer]

Fastest win, cultural is a terrible choice. Domination would take too long. Conquest is always the best for fastest win.

 

[Softnum]

Conquest and Domination tend to overlap depending on opponents and mapsize.

Playing now.

 

[Softnum]

First 10 Turns:
I put the scout on automatic explore so he'll run around without user input.. Take it off if you like.

Pressed End Turn several times.

2500 BC: Isabella offers peace for free. We, of course, agree.

2470 BC: Asoka offers Peace for free. We accept.

2410 BC: Cyrus adopts Slavery.

2350 BC: Bounded Beshbalik 1W of copper.

I think I took 21 turns on accident. I was watching the barbs kick the snot out of Cyrus.

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 2800 BC to 2170 BC:


Turn 44, 2680 BC: You have discovered Fishing!

Turn 50, 2500 BC: You have made peace with Isabella!

Turn 51, 2470 BC: You have made peace with Asoka!
Turn 51, 2470 BC: You have trained a Settler in Karakorum. Work has now begun on a Worker.

Turn 52, 2440 BC: Cyrus adopts Slavery!

Turn 55, 2350 BC: Beshbalik has been founded.

Turn 56, 2320 BC: Tokugawa adopts Slavery!

Turn 60, 2200 BC: Deal Canceled: Peace Treaty (10 Turns) to Isabella for Peace Treaty (10 Turns)

You may wish to copy it to Notepad for reference when you write your turn set post. It includes any entries you added with the in-game Chat facility