SGOTM 05 - Murky Waters

[klarius]

If there is seafood in the west, but not in the north, Gyathaar messed up big time, IMO.
I think better of him, at least up to now .

And I think we shouldn't go agriculture first. Mining the pigs is the only chance for a decent production tile.

 

[Big Pig]

If there is seafood in the west, but not in the north, Gyathaar messed up big time, IMO. No more so than putting stone 3 or 4 squares north of the starting position in SGOTM3
I think better of him, at least up to now .

And I think we shouldn't go agriculture first. Mining the pigs is the only chance for a decent production tile.

I'm not sure what we will be building with the production. Isn't the growth from the farmed bananas more important initially than the extra hammers from the pig-mine, especially if we plan on early BW (edit: and slavery)? Also, having Agr gives our worker something to do while we are teching mining>BW.

 

[Erkon]

What about moving settler 1NW? Another three sea tiles we be inside the fat cross. We can then move the scout SW-S next turn and if there are any sea resources there, we can still move the settler 1SE and settle.

The jungle to the south indicates that there's no suitable second site nearby. And if there's no second site, we do we need to build a settler?

What about agr->pottery->AH? We could then focus on commerce with the capital?

 

[Big Pig]

What about moving settler 1NW? Another three sea tiles we be inside the fat cross. We can then move the scout SW-S next turn and if there are any sea resources there, we can still move the settler 1SE and settle.

Yep - that's probably a better move, if we decide to gamble and delay a turn in settling in the hope of getting some fishies

What about agr->pottery->AH? We could then focus on commerce with the capital?

Its a possibility - but it means we delay getting the production potential of slavery and forest chops (plus no barb axemen to strike terror into the hearts of our enemies....)

 

[LowtherCastle]

Our choices for settling are:

• T1: In place

If we want to defog all relevant tiles, we move T1: settler NW; T2: scout SW S, and we can settle (from current location):

• T2: In place (i.e., move settler back), NW or 2W
• T3: W

If we want to gamble on seafood on any of the 4 unrevealed, nearby tiles, we can go Settler T1 W, and settle:

• T2: W

Advantages of various locations, not including fogged fat cross:

• All sites include bananas and pigs
• In place: 6 river/cottage (12 land tiles); +3 in fat cross; 3 chops; 2 fogged coastals; +2; dyes.
• NW.......: 5 river/cottage ( 8 land tiles); +3 in fat cross; 2 chops; 6 fogged coastals/sea; +0.
• W.........: 6 river/cottage (12 land tiles); +3 immediately; 2 chops; 4 fogged coastals, 1 fogged land tile; +2.
• 2W.......: 5 river/cottage ( 9 land tiles); +3 immediately; 3 chops; 6 fogged coastals/sea. 1 fogged land tile; +2.

Observations:

• Waiting to settle 1 turn reveals 12 potential fat cross tiles (11 sea + 1 land).
• Settling on river (ie., not NW) gives us access to 6 potential copper/horse tiles w/o Wheel.
• +4 for dyes comes when we're ready to lightbulb astro anyway.
• Exposing more sea tiles gives us better idea of potential settlement sites in proximity to capital (for cutural border trade connection).
• Settling 2W allows settling on E coast.

My preference
I say we burn the turn. The only possibility for us losing the Gold by 1 turn is if we f*ck up...

 

[LowtherCastle]

I would also settle in place. Even some seafood in the west wouldn't make this a really great site. So just take what we have.

Imo, any seafood enables us to skip Agri in the short-term and bee-line BW>Sailing, if we want, plus we get the extra , and then with Agri gives us a huge boost in poprushing .

Without more food, we need farms instead of cottages, a tech-path nightmare.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Note on lightbulbing Optics and Astronomy

As I understand the GL tech preference charts for Great Scientists, we cannot rely on the usual avoidance of Meditation, because we'll get it involuntarily. Instead, we need to

avoid Code of Laws​

Do you all come to the same conclusion?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Scheduling this turnset

I propose the following motion:

1. Today (Wednesday): We decide whether to settle in place or T1 Settler NW; T2 Scout SW S
2. Thursday: BP makes that move, posts screenshot, save.
3. Thursday: We make 1-3 test maps with the terrain we see, settings we have.
4. Friday-Monday: We undertake a testathon with concurrent discussion.
5. Tuesday: BP begins his turnset
6. Wednesday: BP completes his turnset (if he decided discussion was needed)

 

[Erkon]

I've looked at a couple of maps generated with the archipelago setting. Lots of island, and not all of the AI is reachable with galleys. I'm not sure what "fractal-like" is, but it sounds like it is more connected. Regardless, if we can't conquer without galleons, we could instead choose to dominate the islands we reach.

If we're going for galleys only, I presume that we need to chain our galleys, which is very tedious. Still, it does enable very rapid deployment of new troops.

If we're going for lightbulbing, then yes we need to avoid CoL (and paper).

 

[Erkon]

I've updated post #2:

EDIT2: Forgot to mention: Ensure that your autosave config is set every turn. Don't forget to enable all HOF settings in case you lost them during a dual-install or whatever reason. And set the first-turn-setting to first turn = 1. This will reduce future confusion.

 

[Erkon]

Our choices for settling are:
...

Excellent analysis! I don't think we need to worry about health at all though.

Please correct me if I'm wrong: any resources that are located on land tiles next to the river will connect to our capital if it's located on the coast, even if we haven't learned Sailing?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Ok, Erkon, I've waited exactly a few hours since reading your idiotic welcome message and I'm not going use an emoticon here because there isn't one for flipping you the bird.

​

 

[klarius]

I think playing around with test maps doesn't help a lot, if we don't know more about our map. Same for tech preferences, besides a first tech of mining or agri.
I would rather go pretty quick to turn 6, when the first animal intelligence comes in.
I'm still in the "don't move the settler if you don't see a better place" faction.

 

[LowtherCastle]

My main concern goes back to what you said about this being a fast conquest game. If we need to have Astronomy, which is probably a 50-50 crapshoot on Medium sea level, I think the Gold Medal goes to the first tema to Astro. Don't you think?

 

[Erkon]

I tried a simple test game (sorry klarius ) and started with mining => BW => IW. Started with worker.

Reflections:

The worker was idle for 13 turns between mining and chopping. Even if we worked the banana (hmm, that doesn't sound very appropriate, does it?) for the +1 cpt, the worker would still be idle for 10 turns.

The barb units does not reveal much of the immediate area, and we can't derive early if we need astronomy or not.

My map had 851 tiles. 64% of those => 544. With 10/15 tiles on average for our cities => 54/36 cites are needed. Domination doesn't look attractive.

The AI cities were not good defended. One archer in a capital? It won't be a problem to take out one or two AI with axes.

Tech dates:
Mining 3610 BC
Archery 2950 BC (barb)
BW 2710 BC
Fishing 2560 BC (barb)
Hunting 1690 BC (barb)
IW 1300 BC
Mysticism 1180 BC (barb)
Masonry 1180 BC (barb)

Barb cities popped up 2020 BC, and at 1000 BC there was three of them

I was a few turns late with BW, and not many barb axemen showed up. If we're going for BW to the barbs, we must ensure we learn the tech before the human barbs show up.

BTW, why not cottage the banana?

 

[Erkon]

Scheduling this turnset

I propose the following motion:

1. Today (Wednesday): We decide whether to settle in place or T1 Settler NW; T2 Scout SW S
2. Thursday: BP makes that move, posts screenshot, save.
3. Thursday: We make 1-3 test maps with the terrain we see, settings we have.
4. Friday-Monday: We undertake a testathon with concurrent discussion.
5. Tuesday: BP begins his turnset
6. Wednesday: BP completes his turnset (if he decided discussion was needed)

Current standing:

Erkon: move settler 1NW (settle T2)
klarius: settle on starting location (settle T1)
Mîtiu: settle on starting location (settle T1)
LC: move settler 1NW (settle T2)
BP: move settler ??? (settle T2)

If no-one changes their minds, or we get another team member casting their vote, we will delay one turn (unless BP comes up with any strange ideas... )

 

[Big Pig]

BTW, why not cottage the banana?

I think that got George Michael into a lot of trouble, didn't it?

 

[LowtherCastle]

or we get another team member casting their vote,

Maybe pm Murky, jesusin and GNEJS.

 

[Big Pig]

I've looked at a couple of maps generated with the archipelago setting. Lots of island, and not all of the AI is reachable with galleys. I'm not sure what "fractal-like" is, but it sounds like it is more connected. Regardless, if we can't conquer without galleons, we could instead choose to dominate the islands we reach.

My main concern goes back to what you said about this being a fast conquest game. If we need to have Astronomy, which is probably a 50-50 crapshoot on Medium sea level, I think the Gold Medal goes to the first tema to Astro. Don't you think?

Rememeber this is a Gyathaar modified map. I think it is highly likely the AI will all be in touch with each other, and we will be very isolated with only our bananas to play with. So I agree with LC 100% about the likely importance of Astro. (But we should know more way before our first GS pops)

I was a few turns late with BW, and not many barb axemen showed up. If we're going for BW to the barbs, we must ensure we learn the tech before the human barbs show up.

When was that in your game?

Ok, Erkon, I've waited exactly a few hours since reading your idiotic welcome message and I'm not going use an emoticon here because there isn't one for flipping you the bird.

​

(I hope this is an approved emoticon usage according to the team directives)

 

[Erkon]

When was that in your game?



(I hope this is an approved emoticon usage according to the team directives)

Just a few turns earlier.

Take note: I'm keeping track of all offenses against me and my arbitrary rules!