SGOTM 05 - Murky Waters

[jesusin]

Ehem. I have not read your comments after my upload yet. I have had a dream last night. A dream of archers and defeat.

I have not yet played a whole turn and I am already the AOWMSF (ashamed owner of the worst mistake so far). Have you found the mistake yet?

I have gifted a pop2 city. If Toku was clever, he would have 2 archers in 11 turns. Since he is not, he will whip an Archer in turn 0 and fortify it.

I should have whipped our pop before gifting. (would that have decreased EK value for Toku?). Or we should have thought about it 1 more day!!!!


Ok, let's look forward. No excel yet. I'll see if I can design something like new Charriot+2Spear retaking EK, synchronize pop4->pop2 with the MW spear departure, put Galley overflow on the settler. I hope that doesn't mean that a road S of MW is more important than the pasture.

 

[jesusin]

Ok, WW over 66.6% but below 100%. We don't know about the 75% threshold.
I would go ahead and hand build the settler in 4 turns. Pasture on pigs if you like (worker cannot help with roads). We can re-mine it anyway .
Research slider to 100%. I'm ok with HBR, but that really means we should settle on the rice.
Next turn the culture border of MW will expand and take the three tiles north of EK and the mountain. Spear can then move adjacent to EK, so it doesn't get forgotten.

Wasn't WW=2 in EK before moving the Spear? Then that means we are under 75%, aren't we?

Research 90% gives 19b in F2 screen. That's 20 before multipliers. Perfect for maximizing rounding effects. I prefer it to 100%.

Another mistake in my turnset, EK Scout should have moved West before gifting, now it will take longet to get on the barb galley.

 

[Erkon]

"Someone trying to drive me crazy?" trembled Hamlet.​

"Could be," the Ghost whispered. "Could be."​

I seriously hope that noone will summarize my contributions to this thread...

 

[jesusin]

Read all your comments. The plan in MW is:
-Worker to chop forest then road 1S of MW
- Work on barracks for 2 turns
- Work on Charriot for 2 turns
- Chop to barracks, finish them
- Keep on Charriot till it's done on T108
- Galley 1 turn
- Grow to pop4, whip 2 into galley
- Galley done,
- Settler done T111
- Give the save to the poor guy who has to decide on Charriot promotion and retake the city.

I'll wait half an hour for a last minute comment from the team, then I'll play. No way I'm playing on the evening again!

 

[Erkon]

...
I have not yet played a whole turn and I am already the AOWMSF (ashamed owner of the worst mistake so far). Have you found the mistake yet?

I have gifted a pop2 city. If Toku was clever, he would have 2 archers in 11 turns. Since he is not, he will whip an Archer in turn 0 and fortify it.

I should have whipped our pop before gifting. (would that have decreased EK value for Toku?). Or we should have thought about it 1 more day!!!!
...

Or you're a genius! It's all the fault of the peanut gallery: klarius, LC, BP, Gnejs, Murky and me missed the whip... If we're lucky (and if I understood klarius ), Toku will not whip until size 3. And that will give him 30, which is 2 away from the archer.

 

[Erkon]

Read all your comments. The plan in MW is:
-Worker to chop forest then road 1S of MW
- Work on barracks for 2 turns
- Work on Charriot for 2 turns
- Chop to barracks, finish them
- Keep on Charriot till it's done on T108
- Galley 1 turn
- Grow to pop4, whip 2 into galley
- Galley done,
- Settler done T111
- Give the save to the poor guy who has to decide on Charriot promotion and retake the city.

I'll wait half an hour for a last minute comment from the team, then I'll play. No way I'm playing on the evening again!

Hmm, why not just complete the settler, then build the chariot naturally, no pop-rush at all? The chariot will be done within 10 turns with the chop. Then you can grow to 4 while building on a galley?

 

[jesusin]

Hmm, why not just complete the settler, then build the chariot naturally, no pop-rush at all? The chariot will be done within 10 turns with the chop. Then you can grow to 4 while building on a galley?

Hmmm. I want to pop rush asap, we have no whipping point to clean.
Also I want to be at size 2 while our police is away fighting.

Now, I have comments on my plan. The chop should go to the settler, we still prefer food to hammers and settling BBW is our #1 priority. The overflow from the Galley can go to the Charriot.

Maybe no Barracks and 2 Charriots instead? That would be good for pillaging later.


I'll wait some more, we need the "will Toku whip an archer?" question answered.

 

[Erkon]

jesusin, you can also complete settler (without pop-rush or chop), complete chariot naturally (done on T9), then grow to size 5 while building the galley. Then the chop can go into the settler, and poprush down to 3...

 

[Erkon]

Hmmm. I want to pop rush asap, we have no whipping point to clean.
Also I want to be at size 2 while our police is away fighting.

Now, I have comments on my plan. The chop should go to the settler, we still prefer food to hammers and settling BBW is our #1 priority. The overflow from the Galley can go to the Charriot.

Maybe no Barracks and 2 Charriots instead? That would be good for pillaging later.


I'll wait some more, we need the "will Toku whip an archer?" question answered.

Why whip at size3? We will not gain any hammers by that, will we? Better to whip size 4.

Yes, another chariot is better than the barracks...

 

[Gnejs]

Or you're a genius! It's all the fault of the peanut gallery: klarius, LC, BP, Gnejs, Murky and me missed the whip... If we're lucky (and if I understood klarius ), Toku will not whip until size 3. And that will give him 30, which is 2 away from the archer.

Yeah, this obviously was a collective mistake. In such situations Erkon, as team captain, will need to accept all the blame.

 

[jesusin]

Why whip at size3? We will not gain any hammers by that, will we? Better to whip size 4.

Yes, another chariot is better than the barracks...

I meant double whipping, of course.



Does anybody know if Toku will whip his archer before we redeclare? I think the answer is yes, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Erkon]

Hmmm. I want to pop rush asap, we have no whipping point to clean.
Also I want to be at size 2 while our police is away fighting.
...
I'll wait some more, we need the "will Toku whip an archer?" question answered.

So, we want (in order of priority):

Chariot before T10
Settler asap
pop2 at T10
Galley to transport settler to BBW

I can't see how to get the galley in time to do any good, so let's skip it until we need it for QinGate. The first three should be possible to achieve.

 

[Erkon]

I meant double whipping, of course.



Does anybody know if Toku will whip his archer before we redeclare? I think the answer is yes, but I don't know for sure.

Double whipping (shudder). Then it's even more important to whip from size4, isn't it? Anyway, don't let my random thoughts confuse you too much. I'm just making conversation until someone else can come up with something clever (and I'm still waiting for that Gnejs!)

 

[jesusin]

Double whipping (shudder). Then it's even more important to whip from size4, isn't it? Anyway, don't let my random thoughts confuse you too much. I'm just making conversation until someone else can come up with something clever (and I'm still waiting for that Gnejs!)

I meant that I meant to whip 2 pop at a time. Po4->pop2.


Natural settler gets BBW sooner. He will walk. The galley is for pillaging, but maybe a second charriot is more important than whipping asap and the galley.

So I will play a couple of turns working on settler to see the archer.

Here is the current plan

turn food actions
101 16 106set
102 16 117
103 16 128
104 16 139
105 16 set done, 0 overflow Cha, stop worker
106 19 8Cha set2 30 set, chopped, cha
107 22 16Cha set done, cha
108 25 24cha cha done, gal
109 28 32cha
110 31 cha done, 3 over Galley
111 34 11gal DoW !
112 37 19gal
113 pop4>2 27+90Gal
114 Gal done, 42overflow

 

[Gnejs]

Double whipping (shudder). Then it's even more important to whip from size4, isn't it? Anyway, don't let my random thoughts confuse you too much. I'm just making conversation until someone else can come up with something clever (and I'm still waiting for that Gnejs!)

I don't have much to add right now. Either Toku doesn't whip - then proceed as planned, or he does - then we need to adapt our plans so that there are at least two units ready to attack EK on T10.

We need a WB test or one of initiated explanations of the inner workings of the SDK from klarius. I can provide neither right now.

 

[Erkon]

I meant that I meant to whip 2 pop at a time. Po4->pop2.


Natural settler gets BBW sooner. He will walk. The galley is for pillaging, but maybe a second charriot is more important than whipping asap and the galley.

So I will play a couple of turns working on settler to see the archer.

Here is the current plan
[pre]
turn food actions
101 16 106set
102 16 117
103 16 128
104 16 139
105 16 set done, 0 overflow Cha, stop worker
106 19 8Cha set2 30 set, chopped, cha
107 22 16Cha set done, cha
108 25 24cha cha done, gal
109 28 32cha
110 31 cha done, 3 over Galley
111 34 11gal DoW !
112 37 19gal
113 pop4>2 27+90Gal
114 Gal done, 42overflow

[/pre]

I don't really understand the blue stuff... I've got second thoughts about putting chop into second settler... We're not in such a hurry to get QinGate, and we don't really want to build a settler at size2? Better to grow to size 4, build the settler and poprush at ~60 , yes?

 

[jesusin]

T102. We are the least advanced. Masonry discovered. EK is 40% Toku's. Tiles won back. Start chop in Drojf, not direct farm which would save 1 worker turn but lose 1 culture. Asoka and Isabel would take Drojf for peace. Nobody else. Qin wounded charriot died. Axe lost to Asoka on Delhi.

T103. Ocean tile seen W of Alex, it's in his borders. Warrior lost to Asoka Warrior near Sakae, he could be avenged soon. EK IS STILL POP2.

Save attached.

 

[jesusin]

I don't really understand the blue stuff... I've got second thoughts about putting chop into second settler... We're not in such a hurry to get QinGate, and we don't really want to build a settler at size2? Better to grow to size 4, build the settler and poprush at ~60 , yes?

Blue things are copy&paste garbage, sorry about that.

We are not finishing the settler at pop2, but at pop4, maybe whipping it.
It takes 4 turns to grow back to pop3 and another 7 turns to grow to pop4, so no hammers are lost because of decay. I am still for giving the 30 hammers from chop to QG settler.

 

[Gnejs]

It may turn out to be a stroke of genius not to whip EK before gifting. We might be able to send 2 keshiks with the first galley by whipping a second Keshik in EK!

The AI doesn't whip before size 3 if I read the code correctly.

Ok, if we can trust this then EK will be undefended on T10. The granary is emptied when capturing a city, I do hope it is emptied when gifting also.

If so, then EK won't have time to grow to size 3 while in Toku's possession, neither will it during Asoka's rule (as the granary for sure is emptied when we recapture from Toku).

How long before the discovery of HBR do we regain control over EK? We would need 36+21=57 food to grow to size 4. By working banana+farms we get +5 food at size2, +6 food at size3. We grow to size 3 on turn 8 after it comes out of revolt, size 4 on T11. We can whip a Keshik that will be ready on T12.

For this to work we need bananas + 2 more farms available to EK. Does this fit in with MW plans? Do we need to farm more? Is T12 after revolt ends timed with the discovery of HBR, or will it be too late?


Edit: err, this plan only works if the granary survives in EK...

 

[Erkon]

Blue things are copy&paste garbage, sorry about that.

We are not finishing the settler at pop2, but at pop4, maybe whipping it.
It takes 4 turns to grow back to pop3 and another 7 turns to grow to pop4, so no hammers are lost because of decay. I am still for giving the 30 hammers from chop to QG settler.

Fine, I just wanted to give you feedback Go ahead..

I noticed in the save that Saladin has connected the copper