SGOTM 05 - Trash Team

[cabert]

welcome aboard lordofcivs.
This is a peculiar game, so be aware that you're not supposed to play it as you would play "by yourself".
We have agreed on a "grand strategy" and on the next moves. So you're supposed to do the best you can to follow this strat.
If you feel there is something wrong or see a problem or a commiting decision, don't be shy and post your questions and interrogations.
You probably know this all already, but just wanted to be sure...
Now go quick some spanish butts .

 

[remconius]

Now go quick some spanish butts .

LOL

I guess this typo shows we are anxious to get it on!

 

[cabert]

LOL

I guess this typo shows we are anxious to get it on!

I guess so...
I'm not very optimistic about a reward for this game. We lost a lot of time in a few occasions, and a quick kick would help to correct this a bit

 

[Cam_H]

One more thing, well a pretty silly question to ask,
. How to make Screenshot? With Print Screen I can make a .gif file using MS Paint. Is there any better way to do that?

When you press PrtScr, a screenshot is saved in the My Games/civilization4/screenshots folder. You can upload this to a photoserver like photobucket (free account) and then link it in the report with the IMG tag provided by photobucket. Not a silly question at all.

lordofcivs,

remconius' advice is 'spot on' but I'd just add that;

(a.) CivFanatics provides a massive 30MB of space per member, so using the 'upload' facility here (refer horizontal toolbar at the top of the page) might save you from the rigmarole of opening an account with Photobucket or another server space provider. CivFanatics will even insert the IMG tags in the image's URL for you!

(b.) On an alternative to MS Paint you can get pretty inexpensive software through eBay if you don't want to pay for an 'off the shelf' graphics program from a retailer. I use PaintShop Pro versions 5, 6, and 9 - I 'cut my teeth' on version 5 and use it to do the cropping and overlaying of text etc. and use version 9 to then reduce the graphics' file sizes down without compromising the quality too much. I just checked on eBay and you can get PaintShop Pro version 9 for under $30 if you see benefit in getting some graphics software - I guess it depends on your budget and interest in computer graphics. Paint.NET - Free Software for Digital Photo Editing is promoted as free and functional, although I've not downloaded or used this software myself.​

 

[lordofcivs]

Thanks rem and cam for assisting me in making screenshots. Well, in this turnshot, I will emphasize more on the game, as I already need a lot to understand the whole scenario. I have been through the whole thread, and have got the Grand Strategy. But as you know, I have joined a bit late, I need a lot of assistance at this time so that I don't make a move that messes up the whole game. I know it will be a bit hard for you guys, but I will need a little spoon feeding in this turn set.

Trying to be on the grand strategy and recommendations by rem, I am going to make these moves. If wrong, please tell me.

. There are 3 workers near Turfan, out of those 1 worker still has 2 movement points. So I am gonna move him NE to start working on Cottage.

. I am going to change the cost tile to cottage that will provide 1 less gold, but will grow later.

Now, there are a few things I need to ask:
. For what are we building Work Boat in Karakorum?

. We have 3 Galleys in Total. 2 more building, 1 in Turfan(3 turns) & another in Ning-hsia(2 turns). So, within 3 turns we will have 5 galleys in total, that can hold 10 units. But at present we have 10 Keshiks & 4 Axmen. Do you want me to build 2 more galleys (1 in each) to hold 14 units?



. Do you want me to get the axmen and keshik settling in Mecca to join the great Battle of España? There is a galley moving toward mecca. I hope this is for the purpose, right? What do you want me to build in Mecca after it finishes with Archer?



Please confirm this before I make the first move.

 

[lordofcivs]

Sorry, didn't check Turfan correctly. Banana is ready. If we work on Banana, it will give Turfan 1 more pop in next turn for the hamlet. 1 unmoved worker can build a cottage in 6 turns. I believe this is enough for Turfan to get to the population 4. We can move the other 2 workers to Karakorum for the dyes as Karakorum is going to get another pop-up in 3 turns.

 

[Cam_H]

That is the wrong game! That was the turnset I picked up!

You should play the 1055AD game that you have linked in your post #198.

_________

Just for the record however ...

There are 3 workers near Turfan, out of those 1 worker still has 2 movement points. So I am gonna move him NE to start working on Cottage.

Yes - I agree that those Workers should not have been grouped. I too broke them up, using the one with the movement to start converting the Bananas near Karakorum from a Farm to a Plantation.

. I am going to change the cost tile to cottage that will provide 1 less gold, but will grow later.

Correct again - those Cottages need to grow.

Now, there are a few things I need to ask:

. For what are we building Work Boat in Karakorum?

We have a plan to build a 'culture bridge' to China by settling on one of the islands to the north east and whipping out a Library (or Theatre if we have Drama) to expand its borders so that we can move Galleys into Chinese waters. I opted to hold off this because we (a.) couldn't afford another city, (b.) our focus is on the mainland for now ... that is getting Old Sarai's borders to expand so we can head west and on to Spain. We will, in time, go for that Chinese invasion but our finances needed to improve, which will happen once we start razing some cities, growing Cottages towards Towns, picking up Currency, etc.

Anyway, the Work Boat was intended for the Fish for the island to the north east, and building it allowed Karakorum to grow a population point so we could then build a Settler using the larger population after the Work Boat was complete. I took an Archer up there too, but didn't found the city because I wanted the group's confirmation. Patagonia brought them back in the next turnset to save a few on maintenance, and they should be hanging around Karakorum.

We have 3 Galleys in Total. 2 more building, 1 in Turfan(3 turns) & another in Ning-hsia(2 turns). So, within 3 turns we will have 5 galleys in total, that can hold 10 units. But at present we have 10 Keshiks & 4 Axmen. Do you want me to build 2 more galleys (1 in each) to hold 14 units?

We can drop off troops in two stages (that was my impression of the plan anyway!).

Do you want me to get the axmen and keshik settling in Mecca to join the great Battle of España? There is a galley moving toward mecca. I hope this is for the purpose, right? What do you want me to build in Mecca after it finishes with Archer?

Yes - both the Axe and the Keshik will form part of the Spanish invasion force - also there's no need for three Workers in Mecca. The city garrison ended up being two Archers (so a second Archer was built partially from a chop after the initial Archer), and the five units (the Axe, Keshik, 3x Workers) all ended up on our starting island once the terrain improvements around Mecca were complete. Despite being a good production city, Mecca can also be a commercial hub, so I opted for it to begin growing the Grassland Cottages in light of our finances.

 

[lordofcivs]

Whew!!!

Well, thanks Cam for letting me know that this is a wrong game, or I would have made a bunch of different strategies to follow..............

Ok. Now I have got the whole stuff. I was a bit confused when I saw that there is no bridge and we are talking about "El Combate Grande de ESPAÑA".

Plan for my turnset.

WAR OF BARCELONA:
For an Invasion at Barcelona I believe we can move our forces to Stone Quarry. Over there we can decide whether we need Axmen in the attack (at the loss of 1 more turn) or just let our Almighty Keshik Roll (based on the defenses there).

KARAKORUM
I believe it's better to move the warrior stationed in Karakorum to Turfan, as there is already 10 faces for 8 here. What do we need to build here? I believe it's better to build some Keshiks, Cats or Axmen there after it finishes off archer (I believe it is for the bridge to Alex).

Turfan
Do we need to more Galleys? Turfan is going to finish Galley just now. Our Transporters will take about 25 turns to get back to Old Sarai. Now we can decide if we want 2 different sets of Transporters in order to create a 2 way transportation.

Ning-hsia
I will whip-train Keshik when it allows me for 2 pop cost.

Bridge to Alex
Well, this is not gonna be in my turnset, but still confirming that the position A is for the bridge, right?

 

[lordofcivs]

remconius:
If we have to build more galleys, then we need to be on mines (as it is). This way, Turfan can produce galleys every 7th turn. Well, we can have more population soon to work on those tiles.

If we are not interested in more galleys but gold, then we can go for most of the cottages.

Well, we can move just 1 mine to a cottage for a bit more gold. I would recommend for the first option, as when the city grows, it will go for cottages itself. But the 2 way transportation is gonna assist us quick attacks before our Keshiks are obsolete. Takugawa has already got Feudalism, and as he is Friendly towards Alex, he can trade that with Alex.

Now, there is one thing I am confused about. Which Cottage you are talking about? Ning-hsia is already working on the only cottage it has. Do you want me to build another cottage at the Plain Terrain? I don't get it, sorry.

 

[cabert]

So Lordofcivs, I see you're fully here.
I would go full cottage for a while, but this wasn't decided yet.

About your goto order for the galleys, I don't agree.
I would deliver the keshiks in 4 moves, then let the mobile buggers go for themselves to barcelona. It's quicker than the naval trip.
I would deliver axes (or swords if you can build a few, the iron is in our borders and should be mined asap!) right next to bacelona, and that's 1 NW of the stone.

 

[remconius]

Yeah, lordofcivs is on the ball it seems.

I agree with cabert to go full cottage in turfan for a few turns, this is also fast for growth. It has a huge income potential if all cottage grow.

Ning hsia has one cottage but can take over the cottage from Beshablik. Just click it in Ning-hsia to make it active and select it. the plains could also use a cottage.

I also think the keshik deliver asap is smart. They dont have terrain penalties and move fast. Galleys can head back. This also means we dont need so many galleys.

I dont think we should build a bridge to alex until we have firm control on the other side of the continent. When we a SoD moving west and units to spare then we can start shipping them through Alex.

For the rest I think you are on track to (quick) kick spanish butt.

 

[lordofcivs]

About your goto order for the galleys, I don't agree.
I would deliver the keshiks in 4 moves, then let the mobile buggers go for themselves to barcelona. It's quicker than the naval trip.

There are 3 Axmen in the Navy. Why are those in the trip if we don't need them? As they are here, I believe it's better if we utilize them. Izzi might have some spearmen to attack our riders. I believe it's better to cover them from some axmen. If we lost this battle, it's gonna take a long to build another troop, then send them for barcelona. I don't think we can risk that. If they reach barcelona, they HAVE TO TAKE IT!!!

I would deliver axes (or swords if you can build a few, the iron is in our borders and should be mined asap!) right next to bacelona, and that's 1 NW of the stone.

Well The troop has been already sent. And I hope an army of 11 Keshiks with 3 Axmen will be successful even if Izzi got 1 or 2 Longbowmen. The only thing it's missing is that after successful invasion, we will need some archers there to cover some later attacks at barcelona. I believe it's better to at least send 2 archers there. We have 1 extra archer here that was trained for the bridge to china. Well, we can train other later for the bridge. But at present, I believe it's better to send this archer with another 1 to Barcelona. We are going to get a galley just after I click "Enter". So that's not a problem if you agree.

I will obviously mine Iron of Beshbalik. But there is one thing important to understand. Even swordsmen won't be able to break the defense of a pile of Longbowmen. I believe, in the time we make a bridge to Alex, train troops, and send them for attack, Alex will have most of his Archer upgraded, or may have built some. Well, I am not sure if Alex yet have Feudalism or not. But in the time, he will have. Tokugawa already have that, and he is a buddy of Alex. In order to get Alex (and all other cities after Barcelona), we gonna need many Catapults with some Swordsmen. I think we have already built enough Keshiks. These Keshiks need to be transported to the main continent, so that they can be utilized to save Barcelona & Chehalis (the only city remaining of our buddies). Well, I would recommend if we decide to take at least Toledo there. That's a pretty good site for producing Army within the main continent.

It's gonna take a 25 turns for the transports to be back to Old Sarai after this trip. What I recommend is that, if we keep building Galleys in Turfan and start building them in Old Sarai just after it finishes Barrack (or after an archer). This way we can quickly have 4 galleys, good enough for 6 Keshiks, an Axmen, and a Sperman stationed in Old Sarai.

If we really want to utilize these forces, this is the only way. Later, we can build 14 units, most of them Cats, and send them in 7 galleys to Alex.

 

[cabert]

barracks do no good to galleys.
If you want to build galleys in old sarai, do it now.

About the axes, of course we should use them.
That's why I said if the boats are loaded with axes, unload them right next to Barcelona.
I don't think we need to bring archers. Barcelona is size 8. Whip it dry for granary then barracks, then archers. I know it sounds bad, but each archer will give 1 happiness point, so it's perfectly good. We will need workers there. Hopefully we can capture a few. If not, then it's worker building time.

 

[lordofcivs]

Ok,

So, if this is agreed that we don't need more galleys, I believe we should go for cats. As this is what gonna help us a lot in later attacks. As soon as we get Iron mined, we can go for some Swordsmen as well.

About Turfan, do you want me to change all the mines to Cottages. There is 1 mine along river producing 1 gold. If we change 2 mines to 2 cottages, while holding Bananas and 1 mine, we can have 1 population growth in 5 turns, a cat every 15 turns, at a cost of some archers. This way we can make Turfan a city of Gold+Production.

Once again, I believe we are still avoiding the strong defense Longbowmen. Neither Keshiks, nor Swordsmen can penetrate them without Catapults.

 

[remconius]

How about, unloading Keshiks from the galleys, and start heading those galeys back. Other galleys with axes can move by sea and unload next to barcelona. A few extra galleys would be ok, the distance to the continent is pretty big.

The idea behind not attacking Alex is that right now there is an ocean defense line between us and alex. If we built a culture bridge he can start attacking us sooner and we will be vulnurable to attacks from that side. Also it would make us split forces weakening our main continent attack.
Or is a culture bridge one way: we can use it, but they cant?
If so then a culture bridge is fine.

We should be careful not to take too many cities on the continent. We are low on gpt at the moment. On the other hand, if toledo is strong production site it can take over the role of Turfan which can then focus on cottages more than production.

I like the whip it dry approach from cabert.

Sounds like you're about ready to get cracking.

[edit] a mix of mines and cottages is fine for Turfan.

 

[pigswill]

Lurking
Re Ocean Culture. IIRC in Vanilla AIs can't use your culture to cross ocean unless you're at peace and have OB. During war they can't cross (while you can). I think this was changed in Warlords so that AI can use your culture bridge during war. Its an important point so worth getting confirmation.

 

[remconius]

Lurking
Re Ocean Culture. IIRC in Vanilla AIs can't use your culture to cross ocean unless you're at peace and have OB. During war they can't cross (while you can). I think this was changed in Warlords so that AI can use your culture bridge during war. Its an important point so worth getting confirmation.

If it is true that a culture bridge is one way, then we can build it without harm (except for increased maintenance costs).

We should check this in the world builder, but not for this turnset.

 

[patagonia]

If it is true that a culture bridge is one way, then we can build it without harm (except for increased maintenance costs).

We should check this in the world builder, but not for this turnset.

I thought ocean culture worked the other way around.

In BtS your galleys can't go in ocean tiles unless they're controlled by your culture, regardless of your OB status with the other civ. I don't remember that being the case in earlier versions of the game.

The reason I put those 3 axes in the fleet is that they're combat 1, CR3 and will come in handy if there are spears to deal with. I also take the point about using Keshik mobility to free up ship movement, but this will leave our stack prone to attack as it closes in on its target. Isabella has construction and it'd be unfortunate to have them weakened by catapult attack and have to pause to heal. We'll capture Barcelona on the same turn regardless so my inclination would be to play it safe initially (once we've captured it and have religious LOS into almost every AI city, we'll have a better idea of the resistance we'll face). However, this aproach would mean that reinforcements take about 10 turns longer to arrive, which might be an unacceptable delay.

 

[remconius]

I thought ocean culture worked the other way around.

In BtS your galleys can't go in ocean tiles unless they're controlled by your culture, regardless of your OB status with the other civ. I don't remember that being the case in earlier versions of the game.

We should test to make sure Alex can not cross the ocean through our culture if we are at war.

 

[stuge]

Just one point to make after all that's above.

When you land the invasion force, remember to send off some pillagers to Persia and Japan. Their tech pace must crawl.

Also, capturing Delhi early would be nice. No shrine but three gem mines are almost as good.