we need to use our galleys to protect our coasts.
About the number of cities, we should just whip/chop courthouses all over the place IMHO. It's a good whip for large cities.
SGOTM 05 - Trash Team
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
we need to use our galleys to protect our coasts.
About the number of cities, we should just whip/chop courthouses all over the place IMHO. It's a good whip for large cities.
remconius
Deity
Had a look at the save, but will probably play tomorrow.
This is what I noticed:
-Isa and Tok dont have OB, so Madrid is acting as a buffer, preventing Tok from reaching us easily.
-Tok is quite strong and could hurt us if he wanted to. He will sign peace for Barcelona. No way, but if we were to take Madrid we could give that to him, or some far away city like santiago. Maybe being Hindu is enough.
-Cyrus seems quite weak also, so we could take him on next.
-Isa has feudalism, but no longbows yet and no money, especially with Barcelona gone.
-Taking Seville is easy, Toledo is more challenging (CG3 archer on a hill) could cost a keshik or 2 to weaken.
THE PLAN:
-I think we should move 8 Keshiks to take Seville and Toledo. This leaves 3 axes and a Keshik to defend Barcelona and to take Madrid in the near future.
-When we are Hindu hopefully we can sign peace with Tok until the cats arrive.
-We'll leave 1 keshik in seville and 1 in toledo. Remaining Keshiks will go on to pillage Cyrus.
-Perhaps we can keep Cyrus busy with Keshiks and take Tok after.
-Isa will sign peace,but give no techs. I guess we could sign peace if she offers feudalism...
comments, please!
This is what I noticed:
-Isa and Tok dont have OB, so Madrid is acting as a buffer, preventing Tok from reaching us easily.
-Tok is quite strong and could hurt us if he wanted to. He will sign peace for Barcelona. No way, but if we were to take Madrid we could give that to him, or some far away city like santiago. Maybe being Hindu is enough.
-Cyrus seems quite weak also, so we could take him on next.
-Isa has feudalism, but no longbows yet and no money, especially with Barcelona gone.
-Taking Seville is easy, Toledo is more challenging (CG3 archer on a hill) could cost a keshik or 2 to weaken.
THE PLAN:
-I think we should move 8 Keshiks to take Seville and Toledo. This leaves 3 axes and a Keshik to defend Barcelona and to take Madrid in the near future.
-When we are Hindu hopefully we can sign peace with Tok until the cats arrive.
-We'll leave 1 keshik in seville and 1 in toledo. Remaining Keshiks will go on to pillage Cyrus.
-Perhaps we can keep Cyrus busy with Keshiks and take Tok after.
-Isa will sign peace,but give no techs. I guess we could sign peace if she offers feudalism...
comments, please!
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
It's worth signing peace with Izzy once we've taken another couple of cities if she'll cough up any useful techs. However, if we cripple her, we'll be best off finishing the job sooner rather than later despite the fact that religion will make her a pretty good friend.
Weak, straggling AI will hamper our barbtech ability.
Weak, straggling AI will hamper our barbtech ability.
Did someone check for wonders?
Where is the great lighthouse? That would be a keeper in my humble opinion.
Did Isa build the temple of Salomon? Not sure it's a good reason to keep a city, but here is my point :
We're too late for a good conquest game. At this time we should have won already
, so we're certainly going nowhere this way.
Is domination an option now or not?
If it is, we may go for a total destruction of Isabella while keeping most of her cities.
With CoL and currency, we can certainly avoid bankrupcy, and as patagonia said, FP would help a lot.
This would mean growing cities around mecca, planting our culture bridges asap and building up defenses (=happy units) for a while after taking out isabella.
It doesn't change the "mass catapults" way of things I suggested before. We must bring toku and cyrus down sooner or later.
Where is the great lighthouse? That would be a keeper in my humble opinion.
Did Isa build the temple of Salomon? Not sure it's a good reason to keep a city, but here is my point :
We're too late for a good conquest game. At this time we should have won already
, so we're certainly going nowhere this way.Is domination an option now or not?
If it is, we may go for a total destruction of Isabella while keeping most of her cities.
With CoL and currency, we can certainly avoid bankrupcy, and as patagonia said, FP would help a lot.
This would mean growing cities around mecca, planting our culture bridges asap and building up defenses (=happy units) for a while after taking out isabella.
It doesn't change the "mass catapults" way of things I suggested before. We must bring toku and cyrus down sooner or later.
lordofcivs
Lord of The Civilizations
Well, why do we need Madrid. Madrid has a population of 11. I believe it's better if we use that to train some more units by whipping, reducing it's population, and then gifting it to Taku for peace .
Seville & Toledo must be captured and kept, as they both are good cities for us. Also, we should capture Delhi.
Now, obviously we can't afford 3 more cities. Barcelona is going to be ready in 5 turns, providing us 18 gold for Kashi Vishwanath. At present we have 164 gold in hand. If we capture 2 more cities, we will be negative in gold even at 0% science.
I agree with everyone else that we should built Courthouses in all cities. But there is one thing to remember. Courthouses are not that cheap, and will require 3 or more population (I don't know exact calculation). Reducing 3 or more population in all cities (in fact 3 or more cottages, as they are working on cottages) will also hurt us a bit. But finally, as we have some gold in our treasury, it is better to rush build CHs everywhere.
Now, there are a few things I would like to discuss here. We should forget about culture bridges to Alex & Qin at present. We can't afford 2 more cities (until we have a lot of CHs and an FP). Qin can't use the path above as Goth (Chinese city) will take a long long time to become a culture bride to us (I hope never in this game). Alex can have a culture bridge to reach us (when Spart will have 150+ Culture), but we have peace with him. We can't trust Alex, as he is having good relations (Polite) with Toku & Qin, but he is Cautious towards Izzi & Cyrus. Anything can happen, and he can declare war against us any time.
I would recommend to try to make as good relations with Alex as we can. After we have Currency, we can offer him some bananas (not rice - as rice gets +1 health with granary) for as many gold as he can offer. Alex is not that good with science (I believe as he neither have Alphabet nor Currency yet), and if somehow we convince him to declare war against any other civilization, he might have some negative points with his friends for declaring war against others. I don't know at present, but I believe this can benefit us somehow later.
Toku is an idiot. Signing peace with him is not gonna provide us any . .. .. .. .. He will keep asking us for bullshits, and anyhow, will declare war against us when he becomes furious (for not giving him tributes or shits). Even if we start giving him stuffs he wants, he will never sign an Open border with us (unless he is Friendly towards us - which will never happen).
There are 4 cities we need to attack (Toledo, Seville, Madrid, & there is one more right next Toledo - right side - no name discovered yet, but there is one). Madrid & the unknown city can be offered to anyone.
About signing peace with Izzi, I am not sure yet. Well, there should be just one civ, we should consider about signing peace. Either Japan or Spain, we shouldn't consider peace with both. We shouldn't break the pace we are having at present. Whether we go for Domination or Conquest, if we have to finish the game in short time, we need to keep attacking.
My recommendations for the major problems here.
. At present we are fighting with Isabella, we consider finishing her off. Make peace with Toku offering Madrid.
. If somehow Alex allows to declare war against any other civ, offer him the unknown city we talked above. The city is too far from his reach, and we can destroy/get back any time we want.
. We need to build FP as soon as possible. At present we just have 7 cities. With Seville & Toledo, we will have 9. Enough for FP. We should whip-build Courthouses in Barcelona, Seville, Toledo, Mecca, Turfan, & Ning-hsia (6 cities required).
. If we emphasize more towards main continent, we can get a boost towards our military actions. We should make Barcelona, Toledo, & Seville our Millitary producing cities. All the cities in our Base island should be changed to "Wealth", just after we get currency. Forget about transportation. Just keep training & attacking cities on the main continent, while supporting those units from the cities at our base. That's I believe the fastest way to win the game at present.
Seville & Toledo must be captured and kept, as they both are good cities for us. Also, we should capture Delhi.
Now, obviously we can't afford 3 more cities. Barcelona is going to be ready in 5 turns, providing us 18 gold for Kashi Vishwanath. At present we have 164 gold in hand. If we capture 2 more cities, we will be negative in gold even at 0% science.
I agree with everyone else that we should built Courthouses in all cities. But there is one thing to remember. Courthouses are not that cheap, and will require 3 or more population (I don't know exact calculation). Reducing 3 or more population in all cities (in fact 3 or more cottages, as they are working on cottages) will also hurt us a bit. But finally, as we have some gold in our treasury, it is better to rush build CHs everywhere.
Now, there are a few things I would like to discuss here. We should forget about culture bridges to Alex & Qin at present. We can't afford 2 more cities (until we have a lot of CHs and an FP). Qin can't use the path above as Goth (Chinese city) will take a long long time to become a culture bride to us (I hope never in this game). Alex can have a culture bridge to reach us (when Spart will have 150+ Culture), but we have peace with him. We can't trust Alex, as he is having good relations (Polite) with Toku & Qin, but he is Cautious towards Izzi & Cyrus. Anything can happen, and he can declare war against us any time.
I would recommend to try to make as good relations with Alex as we can. After we have Currency, we can offer him some bananas (not rice - as rice gets +1 health with granary) for as many gold as he can offer. Alex is not that good with science (I believe as he neither have Alphabet nor Currency yet), and if somehow we convince him to declare war against any other civilization, he might have some negative points with his friends for declaring war against others. I don't know at present, but I believe this can benefit us somehow later.
Toku is an idiot. Signing peace with him is not gonna provide us any . .. .. .. .. He will keep asking us for bullshits, and anyhow, will declare war against us when he becomes furious (for not giving him tributes or shits). Even if we start giving him stuffs he wants, he will never sign an Open border with us (unless he is Friendly towards us - which will never happen).
There are 4 cities we need to attack (Toledo, Seville, Madrid, & there is one more right next Toledo - right side - no name discovered yet, but there is one). Madrid & the unknown city can be offered to anyone.
About signing peace with Izzi, I am not sure yet. Well, there should be just one civ, we should consider about signing peace. Either Japan or Spain, we shouldn't consider peace with both. We shouldn't break the pace we are having at present. Whether we go for Domination or Conquest, if we have to finish the game in short time, we need to keep attacking.
My recommendations for the major problems here.
. At present we are fighting with Isabella, we consider finishing her off. Make peace with Toku offering Madrid.
. If somehow Alex allows to declare war against any other civ, offer him the unknown city we talked above. The city is too far from his reach, and we can destroy/get back any time we want.
. We need to build FP as soon as possible. At present we just have 7 cities. With Seville & Toledo, we will have 9. Enough for FP. We should whip-build Courthouses in Barcelona, Seville, Toledo, Mecca, Turfan, & Ning-hsia (6 cities required).
. If we emphasize more towards main continent, we can get a boost towards our military actions. We should make Barcelona, Toledo, & Seville our Millitary producing cities. All the cities in our Base island should be changed to "Wealth", just after we get currency. Forget about transportation. Just keep training & attacking cities on the main continent, while supporting those units from the cities at our base. That's I believe the fastest way to win the game at present.
lordofcivs
Lord of The Civilizations
I agree with this, giving Madrid to Tok for peace. If we don't give it to him, he will take it by himself easily.
Yes. At least take Dehli quickly, as it's gonna give us Gems.
There is a Swordsman also there. If you don't want to lose more of our Keshiks there, send a couple of Axmen there for Swordsman.
I agree with this one too. It's a bit faster. We need Madrid if we want to make peace with Toku. Toku doesn't have an OB with Izzi. But He doesn't need that to reach Toledo.
I would recommend to get Cyrus just after finishing Izzi off. Here is the plan I recommend. Take Seville, Toledo, Dehli, Unknown City near Toledo (to offer Alex to declare war or to offer Qin for peace), Madrid (for Toku for peace). Then we go and destroy all the cities of España (or keep just one more - Santiago - if we can afford and destroy all others) to kick Izzi outta game. Then we go and grab Cyrus naked, finish him off. Until then, our cities in main continent must be fully set for unit producing. At that time I believe we would be able to attack Toku. Beware, Toku is having good relationships with Alex, and Alex is too close to our base, with a culture bridge to reach us (can be ready soon). I am not sure Toku has planned to use this culture bridge to attack us, but it's possible for him too, to attack us via that route.
She won't give us Feudalism. I don't think it's a good Idea to go on peace with her. We shouldn't lose time, we must keep attacking. At present Cyrus and Isabella are good options for us, as they are not too strong. Isabella has War Elephants already. She also got Feudalism. If we wait for a while, I don't think it would be that easier for us to kick her out.
lordofcivs
Lord of The Civilizations
Did someone check for wonders?
Toku Built it, where? we don't know yet. I think we should forget about great lighthouse, as Toku is too strong to get at present.
Well, it's in Seville. But as you know there are not too many Judish Cities (just 7%), Temple of Solomon is just gonna provide us 3-5 gold I believe. Well, something is better than nothing.
I don't think we should leave our hope right now. This map/game is designed this way that all the teams would be having similar problems. When I posted my save, SGOTM page gave status of all the teams. It's a good news that we are not worst.Some teams got a sudden decrease in score, I am not sure what was the reason, but I believe whether they lost some cities, or were stuck with the gold problem.
We should go for Conquest. Domination will require too much support for army and maintenance. Well, whatever will be achievable first, we can do that. But I recommend we go for Conquest, as this is faster and achievable without too good scientific knowledge.
Well, we need culture bridges, but I don't think we need anything in the Arabic Island. There is just Thundra, Ice & Desert there for new cities. Mecca is the only site with good terrains, and we got that.
lordofcivs
Lord of The Civilizations
Correction!
I misquoted earlier about Sparta. Well, it's not yet a culture bridge to us, but it can be soon, whenever Sparta will reach 150+ Culture. I don't think it's gonna take too long. Already corrected above.
I misquoted earlier about Sparta. Well, it's not yet a culture bridge to us, but it can be soon, whenever Sparta will reach 150+ Culture. I don't think it's gonna take too long. Already corrected above.
remconius
Deity
Only played a few turns, upto turn 255.
Feeling very tired and bad (ajax lost
) and I have to travel tomorrow morning early...
Here is the report (sorry dont feel like uploading the screenshots I captured):
-Captured Seville. Lost CR3 Axe when defending against a sword who had 30% chance to win :O
-Barcelona/Seville are out of resistance, generating 24 gpt. Btw, Barca has a courthouse already.
-Traded with alex for cows and 5 gpt.
-Toledo is going to be tougher, 4 units there now and we only have 6 keshiks there. Maybe the barbs can help.
-Currency will be in, in 1 turn.
-we need more forces at the front, but galleys are slow...
Turn 247/660 (1142 AD) [29-Aug-2007 21:22:11]
Comment: Move 8 Kehsiks to Seville
While defending in Spanish territory at Barcelona, Keshik loses to: Spanish Horse Archer (3.60/6) (Prob Victory: 67.4%)
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Qin Shi Huang(China), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Turn 248/660 (1148 AD) [29-Aug-2007 21:30:51]
While attacking in Mongolian territory at Barcelona, Axeman defeats (2.15/5): Spanish Horse Archer (Prob Victory: 93.8%)
Keshik promoted: Combat I
Keshik promoted: Flanking I
While attacking in Spanish territory at Seville, Keshik loses to: Spanish Archer (0.84/3) (Prob Victory: 28.3%)
Keshik promoted: Combat I
Keshik promoted: Combat II
While attacking in Spanish territory at Seville, Keshik defeats (4.68/6): Spanish Archer (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
Hinduism has spread: Seville (Spanish Empire)
Judaism has spread: Seville
Hinduism has spread: Seville
Captured Seville (Isabella)
Beshbalik begins: Courthouse (30 turns)
Seville begins: Courthouse (180 turns)
Barcelona begins: Archer (37 turns)
Karakorum grows: 7
Old Sarai grows: 4
Turn 249/660 (1154 AD) [29-Aug-2007 21:39:16]
Seville begins: Archer (37 turns)
Old Sarai finishes: Barracks
Attitude Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Qin Shi Huang(China), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Turn 250/660 (1160 AD) [29-Aug-2007 22:23:09]
Old Sarai begins: Archer (37 turns)
Turfan grows: 8
Mecca grows: 9
While defending in the wild at Seville, Axeman loses to: Spanish Swordsman (2.22/6) (Prob Victory: 69.7%)
Hinduism has spread: Susa (Persian Empire)
Turn 251/660 (1166 AD) [29-Aug-2007 22:31:46]
While attacking in Mongolian territory at Seville, Keshik defeats (6.00/6): Spanish Swordsman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Comment: lost CR3 axe from a sworwman at 30% odds...
Keshik promoted: Flanking I
Turfan begins: Archer (37 turns)
Mecca begins: Archer (13 turns)
Turfan's borders expand
Turfan finishes: Archer
Mecca finishes: Archer
Turn 252/660 (1172 AD) [29-Aug-2007 22:35:58]
Mecca begins: Courthouse (30 turns)
Karakorum grows: 8
Barcelona finishes: Archer
Seville finishes: Archer
Turn 253/660 (1178 AD) [29-Aug-2007 22:38:46]
Barcelona begins: Archer (37 turns)
Seville begins: Archer (37 turns)
Ning-hsia grows: 7
Old Sarai grows: 5
Barcelona's borders expand
Turn 254/660 (1184 AD) [29-Aug-2007 22:42:52]
Turfan finishes: Archer
Ning-hsia finishes: Catapult
Turn 255/660 (1190 AD) [29-Aug-2007 22:43:59]
Turfan begins: Courthouse (36 turns)
Ning-hsia begins: Archer (7 turns)
Ning-hsia begins: Archer (7 turns)
The save
Feeling very tired and bad (ajax lost
) and I have to travel tomorrow morning early...Here is the report (sorry dont feel like uploading the screenshots I captured):
-Captured Seville. Lost CR3 Axe when defending against a sword who had 30% chance to win :O
-Barcelona/Seville are out of resistance, generating 24 gpt. Btw, Barca has a courthouse already.
-Traded with alex for cows and 5 gpt.
-Toledo is going to be tougher, 4 units there now and we only have 6 keshiks there. Maybe the barbs can help.
-Currency will be in, in 1 turn.
-we need more forces at the front, but galleys are slow...
Turn 247/660 (1142 AD) [29-Aug-2007 21:22:11]
Comment: Move 8 Kehsiks to Seville
While defending in Spanish territory at Barcelona, Keshik loses to: Spanish Horse Archer (3.60/6) (Prob Victory: 67.4%)
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Qin Shi Huang(China), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Temujin(Mongolia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Turn 248/660 (1148 AD) [29-Aug-2007 21:30:51]
While attacking in Mongolian territory at Barcelona, Axeman defeats (2.15/5): Spanish Horse Archer (Prob Victory: 93.8%)
Keshik promoted: Combat I
Keshik promoted: Flanking I
While attacking in Spanish territory at Seville, Keshik loses to: Spanish Archer (0.84/3) (Prob Victory: 28.3%)
Keshik promoted: Combat I
Keshik promoted: Combat II
While attacking in Spanish territory at Seville, Keshik defeats (4.68/6): Spanish Archer (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
Hinduism has spread: Seville (Spanish Empire)
Judaism has spread: Seville
Hinduism has spread: Seville
Captured Seville (Isabella)
Beshbalik begins: Courthouse (30 turns)
Seville begins: Courthouse (180 turns)
Barcelona begins: Archer (37 turns)
Karakorum grows: 7
Old Sarai grows: 4
Turn 249/660 (1154 AD) [29-Aug-2007 21:39:16]
Seville begins: Archer (37 turns)
Old Sarai finishes: Barracks
Attitude Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Qin Shi Huang(China), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Turn 250/660 (1160 AD) [29-Aug-2007 22:23:09]
Old Sarai begins: Archer (37 turns)
Turfan grows: 8
Mecca grows: 9
While defending in the wild at Seville, Axeman loses to: Spanish Swordsman (2.22/6) (Prob Victory: 69.7%)
Hinduism has spread: Susa (Persian Empire)
Turn 251/660 (1166 AD) [29-Aug-2007 22:31:46]
While attacking in Mongolian territory at Seville, Keshik defeats (6.00/6): Spanish Swordsman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Comment: lost CR3 axe from a sworwman at 30% odds...
Keshik promoted: Flanking I
Turfan begins: Archer (37 turns)
Mecca begins: Archer (13 turns)
Turfan's borders expand
Turfan finishes: Archer
Mecca finishes: Archer
Turn 252/660 (1172 AD) [29-Aug-2007 22:35:58]
Mecca begins: Courthouse (30 turns)
Karakorum grows: 8
Barcelona finishes: Archer
Seville finishes: Archer
Turn 253/660 (1178 AD) [29-Aug-2007 22:38:46]
Barcelona begins: Archer (37 turns)
Seville begins: Archer (37 turns)
Ning-hsia grows: 7
Old Sarai grows: 5
Barcelona's borders expand
Turn 254/660 (1184 AD) [29-Aug-2007 22:42:52]
Turfan finishes: Archer
Ning-hsia finishes: Catapult
Turn 255/660 (1190 AD) [29-Aug-2007 22:43:59]
Turfan begins: Courthouse (36 turns)
Ning-hsia begins: Archer (7 turns)
Ning-hsia begins: Archer (7 turns)
The save
remconius
Deity
Just logging in from lovely country of Ireland. I am here on a business trip, but with a wonderful wireless connection I can still log in.
Roster (10 turns each)
Remconius
cabert (UP)
Cam_H (on deck)
Stuge
patagonia
lordofcivs
Lurking: Pigswill
Roster (10 turns each)
Remconius
cabert (UP)
Cam_H (on deck)
Stuge
patagonia
lordofcivs
Lurking: Pigswill
remconius
Deity
Just got back from Ireland, lovely country. Also added screenshots to my report.
Roster (10 turns each)
Remconius
cabert (on deck)
Cam_H (UP)
Stuge
patagonia
lordofcivs
Lurking: Pigswill
Cam, are you able to play this weekend?
Roster (10 turns each)
Remconius
cabert (on deck)
Cam_H (UP)
Stuge
patagonia
lordofcivs
Lurking: Pigswill
Cam, are you able to play this weekend?
Oh hi! 
This is a "got it". No problem with me playing this weekend, but I really need to review the last few pages carefully as I tend to lose the sense of the game by reading the reports without actually seeing the game itself. Mindful of Cabert's #252 question though.
_____________
[Edit] And later ...
Firstly, to recap the thinking;
Righty-O then ... looking at the game I see some really worrying signs in our capacity to continue to successfully war and I have great fears regarding our capacity to take any of Delhi, Toledo, or Madrid. Can we even consider winning this game by relying on Classical Era units however? Will Axes, Spears, Keshiks, and Catapults continue to 'cut it'? As such - do we need to assess Machinery and Civil Service because we're going slower than at first envisaged?
Isabella's got Feudalism and now a stack of gold for upgrades;
While we have been 'eye-ing' Madrid as a tasty target, we're not within striking distance with our troops and it has two 'upgradeable' Archers;
I doubt that we can take Toledo even before Isabella upgrades her Archers to Longbows. There is admittedly another Keshik fairly close near Pamplona, but too far to join any fight this turn. There's a 9% chance of getting our Combat I Keshik to beat that City Garrison III Archer, and I expect other discouraging percentages against two or three of the other defenders. At best it is a 'do or die' proposition against the odds - we could see the bulk of our invasion force perish on this city alone, let alone dreams of Delhi, Madrid, and all of the other Spanish cities. Do we abort the Toledo plan now, perhaps waiting for a SoD of Catapults to be compiled across a few turnsets?
For the record, Cyrus is about to settle on the ruins of Zaragoza (has a single Archer - could become a Longbow);
On to micro-management, while we have Workers building roads on all sorts of odd tiles where they could be building Cottages, there's no urgency because the city populations are still too small to work the last few Cottages anyway.
Buuuut ... the one that I just want clarification on is Mecca;
We're running Specialist Scientists instead of working the Cottages ... is the idea to pop a Great Scientist to lightbulb Alphabet? We're working food-heavy tiles that are propelling the city up to and over the happiness cap, and I am wondering if the idea here is to get an unhappy citizen to use for whipping out the Courthouse (which can be done right now btw)? Basically I don't want to burn a
if it was meant for a Golden Age or an Academy or some other purpose - especially if we're going to press on with researching into 'future Eras'. If lightbulbing, we can pull 
back to 0% and let the lightbulb do all the work for us.
Other questions include;
Is Barcelona the intended home of our Forbidden Palace?
Can I use the whip more? We are losing momentum and I think the Keshik's 'window of opportunity' is quickly closing, so we need to finish the Courthouses and get on to building Catapults. Barcelona will need a Market as well as the Forbidden Palace (I think) as well as being a unit pump.
[/Edit]
This is a "got it". No problem with me playing this weekend, but I really need to review the last few pages carefully as I tend to lose the sense of the game by reading the reports without actually seeing the game itself. Mindful of Cabert's #252 question though._____________
[Edit] And later ...
Firstly, to recap the thinking;
Tech-wise we're after Drama via Alphabet if I'm not mistaken in order to address protracted war weariness and Theatres are cheaper than Libraries for border pops of new cities.
We would like Delhi, Toledo, and Madrid to be ours as priorities and to knock Isabella out of the game. Our next target is Cyrus, who we'll pillage, although we're quite content to pillage Tokugawa too. If we take Madrid however, we'll settle for peace with Tokugawa by gifting him the city.
We would like Delhi, Toledo, and Madrid to be ours as priorities and to knock Isabella out of the game. Our next target is Cyrus, who we'll pillage, although we're quite content to pillage Tokugawa too. If we take Madrid however, we'll settle for peace with Tokugawa by gifting him the city.
Righty-O then ... looking at the game I see some really worrying signs in our capacity to continue to successfully war and I have great fears regarding our capacity to take any of Delhi, Toledo, or Madrid. Can we even consider winning this game by relying on Classical Era units however? Will Axes, Spears, Keshiks, and Catapults continue to 'cut it'? As such - do we need to assess Machinery and Civil Service because we're going slower than at first envisaged?
Isabella's got Feudalism and now a stack of gold for upgrades;
While we have been 'eye-ing' Madrid as a tasty target, we're not within striking distance with our troops and it has two 'upgradeable' Archers;
I doubt that we can take Toledo even before Isabella upgrades her Archers to Longbows. There is admittedly another Keshik fairly close near Pamplona, but too far to join any fight this turn. There's a 9% chance of getting our Combat I Keshik to beat that City Garrison III Archer, and I expect other discouraging percentages against two or three of the other defenders. At best it is a 'do or die' proposition against the odds - we could see the bulk of our invasion force perish on this city alone, let alone dreams of Delhi, Madrid, and all of the other Spanish cities. Do we abort the Toledo plan now, perhaps waiting for a SoD of Catapults to be compiled across a few turnsets?
For the record, Cyrus is about to settle on the ruins of Zaragoza (has a single Archer - could become a Longbow);
On to micro-management, while we have Workers building roads on all sorts of odd tiles where they could be building Cottages, there's no urgency because the city populations are still too small to work the last few Cottages anyway.
Buuuut ... the one that I just want clarification on is Mecca;
We're running Specialist Scientists instead of working the Cottages ... is the idea to pop a Great Scientist to lightbulb Alphabet? We're working food-heavy tiles that are propelling the city up to and over the happiness cap, and I am wondering if the idea here is to get an unhappy citizen to use for whipping out the Courthouse (which can be done right now btw)? Basically I don't want to burn a
if it was meant for a Golden Age or an Academy or some other purpose - especially if we're going to press on with researching into 'future Eras'. If lightbulbing, we can pull back to 0% and let the lightbulb do all the work for us.Other questions include;
Is Barcelona the intended home of our Forbidden Palace?
Can I use the whip more? We are losing momentum and I think the Keshik's 'window of opportunity' is quickly closing, so we need to finish the Courthouses and get on to building Catapults. Barcelona will need a Market as well as the Forbidden Palace (I think) as well as being a unit pump.
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stuge
Emperor
It's 1200 AD and we're still ages away from medieval units. Say bye-bye to quick victory.
The AIs are depressingly ahead of us in tech. We shouldn't try to take cities if it leads to huge losses, because we need the troops to pillage. Badly. If things go on at this rate, Cyrus and Toku will probably have rifles when we get maces.
Conquest is definetly out now, the AIs have become too established. For domination, how close to the mark would we get if, say, we claimed the eastern part of the big continent, the sugar+horses island and Qin's island? I could do some tile-counting later today.
The AIs are depressingly ahead of us in tech. We shouldn't try to take cities if it leads to huge losses, because we need the troops to pillage. Badly. If things go on at this rate, Cyrus and Toku will probably have rifles when we get maces.
Conquest is definetly out now, the AIs have become too established. For domination, how close to the mark would we get if, say, we claimed the eastern part of the big continent, the sugar+horses island and Qin's island? I could do some tile-counting later today.
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
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I hired those two scientists in Mecca back on my turnset to speed our research independent of the slider. However, that was when we were desperately seeking currency. We'd actually get more raw beakers by making them miners and either building research (with alphabet) or building wealth and raising the slider.
Agree with stuge about domination possibly being more straightforward from here. However, don't underestimate the momentum you can build going for conquest. I don't think it's unreasonable to attempt to take the whole of the main continent, but we'll need to trash a lot of units against superior defenders, especially towards the end. Between that, our own land and Saladin's, I think that'd get us enough tiles to secure a victory.
With this being Vanilla, the only subsequent techs worth pursuing if we're looking for beefed up military are CS and machinery for maces, although guilds is an option too if pointy-stick research comes into play.
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To update my playing availability, the PC I play civ on is in storage until at least September 15th unfortunately. Moving sucks, epsecially when dates don't match up well.
Agree with stuge about domination possibly being more straightforward from here. However, don't underestimate the momentum you can build going for conquest. I don't think it's unreasonable to attempt to take the whole of the main continent, but we'll need to trash a lot of units against superior defenders, especially towards the end. Between that, our own land and Saladin's, I think that'd get us enough tiles to secure a victory.
With this being Vanilla, the only subsequent techs worth pursuing if we're looking for beefed up military are CS and machinery for maces, although guilds is an option too if pointy-stick research comes into play.
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To update my playing availability, the PC I play civ on is in storage until at least September 15th unfortunately. Moving sucks, epsecially when dates don't match up well.
Thanks Stuge and Patagonia,
Call me; "Cam the Yellow"
but ...
I guess that on this turn I can't see us taking Toledo, and expect that the following turn Isabella will be upgrading her Archers to Longbows.
In stark contrast to the mood of the roster - I am just about at the point where I think that we call the whole Spanish war-thing off until we can get better units and more units on to the main continent. Perhaps we could still possibly take another of Isabella's fringe cities - but Toledo looks to me like it's too strong for six or seven Keshiks. If we had a gazillion Catapults, things might be different, but we don't. Pillaging the other tribes is still a possibility.
Isabella will give us 400-and-something (420?, can't recall) for 10 turns of Peace, which will give us time to ship more units over, and boost our research efforts towards the likes of Metal Casting.
Research-wise, is this a plan (?);
I'm reluctant to move until we've reached a point of agreement. I'm quite happy to go with the Domination goal if that's the thinking. I'm also happy to re-visit the culture bridge to China proposition now that our accounts are 'on the improve'.
(Patagonia - I thought that I was going to be 'in the same boat' but our home-shift has been deferred until the end of the year.)
Call me; "Cam the Yellow"
but ...I guess that on this turn I can't see us taking Toledo, and expect that the following turn Isabella will be upgrading her Archers to Longbows.
In stark contrast to the mood of the roster - I am just about at the point where I think that we call the whole Spanish war-thing off until we can get better units and more units on to the main continent. Perhaps we could still possibly take another of Isabella's fringe cities - but Toledo looks to me like it's too strong for six or seven Keshiks. If we had a gazillion Catapults, things might be different, but we don't. Pillaging the other tribes is still a possibility.
Isabella will give us 400-and-something (420?, can't recall) for 10 turns of Peace, which will give us time to ship more units over, and boost our research efforts towards the likes of Metal Casting.
Research-wise, is this a plan (?);
- Currency next turn
- Spend some turns on Metal Casting
- Mecca pops Great Scientist for Alphabet
- Swap from Metal Casting to Drama
I'm reluctant to move until we've reached a point of agreement. I'm quite happy to go with the Domination goal if that's the thinking. I'm also happy to re-visit the culture bridge to China proposition now that our accounts are 'on the improve'.
(Patagonia - I thought that I was going to be 'in the same boat' but our home-shift has been deferred until the end of the year.)
remconius
Deity
It does seem our plans are hindered by new developments.
It's a difficult point in the game. We did well in taking two shrines helping us with income. We now need loads of units and/or better units. Perhaps we should expand our base, such as taking the Spanish city on the island between us and the content.
Let's send some Keshiks to cyrus and maybe Toku to pillage their cottages and keep them behind.
It's a difficult point in the game. We did well in taking two shrines helping us with income. We now need loads of units and/or better units. Perhaps we should expand our base, such as taking the Spanish city on the island between us and the content.
Let's send some Keshiks to cyrus and maybe Toku to pillage their cottages and keep them behind.
I think we should take as much from spain as possible and try to sue for peace for something.
Alphabet is a good think to get in such a deal.
I would switch into domination mode for a not quite good reason : I never managed a conquest win in vanilla
Alphabet is a good think to get in such a deal.
I would switch into domination mode for a not quite good reason : I never managed a conquest win in vanilla
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