SGOTM 05 - Trash Team

cabert · Sep 17, 2007

remconius said:
I agree let's take on Cyrus after Spain (kill Spain to reduce WW and increase Barb-tech rate)

Cats and Maces should do the trick. Can we build maces yet?

I checked the save. If we put Barcelona to full hammer production (at -2 food) we can have the FP in 9 turns. That is worth it IMHO. Will reduce the maintenance of our new cities, should provide 15 gpt or more.

I checked the maintenance of our "new cities". It isn't so bad, so I didn't press on. The growth of barcelona seemed more important to me (to have a whippable LB, in case something bad happened) .
But now that barcelona is size 4, and with the horse pasture online, I agree that we can prioritize production there.
My thinking was the following :
- the horse tile is great : hammers and self feeding
- there is no big food tile
- a LB can be whipped for 2 with 15 hammers overflow (a bit more, 2 turns worth of production more in fact, which isn't that great 1 hammer on the turn I put something into the LB, probably 4 after the whip, for a total of 20 hammers overflow)
So I was trying to get barcelona to size 5 in the next 10 turns (before the hammers start decaying) to whip it down to size 3 (= working 2 farms + the horses), probably finishing the Forbidden Palace in the same move.

Cam_H · Sep 17, 2007

cabert said:
cam, you may have missed it, but I already sued for peace with Japan.

Yes I did! :hammer2:

... caught the one about China though, as I was about to launch into a series of views about Qin She Huang!

Still - I'm pretty wary of Tokugawa after the ten turns are up.

Glad you guys are feeling confident with Maces and Cat's.

stuge · Sep 17, 2007

Okay. So, the plan:

- Work towards guilds.
- Keep pounding nails into Izzy's coffin.

Anything else?

remconius · Sep 17, 2007

stuge said:
Okay. So, the plan:

- Work towards guilds.
- Keep pounding nails into Izzy's coffin.

Anything else?

Finish FP in 9 or 12 turns...

Cam_H · Sep 17, 2007

I'd spread Taoism and Hinduism into Karakorum and build Monasteries there. Tufan might also get similar builds in light of the large number of Cottages.

cabert · Sep 18, 2007

I have another request :
build markets in the biggest $ providing cities.
I started one in Mecca where there is no threat, so no problem doing so.
I think a market in Barcelona right after the FP is in order. Seville (is that the name? I mean the temple of salomon city) could build one too, although it will take a while.

remconius · Sep 19, 2007

Stuge, you playing tonight?

stuge · Sep 20, 2007

Read my mind.

Although I'm afraid that the report will come tomorrow, approx. at 9.30 GMT +2.

stuge · Sep 21, 2007

War

I went uh-oh very quietly when Toku switched to theocracy and vassalage on my eight turn. The turn after, he declared war on...

Cyrus.

:cool:

Here's a good chance to hurt that sucker. I suggest that we make peace with Izzy to get our offensive force to the north. Here's what she'd cough up for peace:

Other tactical stuff:

I've got Mecca building a couple of longbowmen to replace the catapults on the "Halfway Island." Also, there are a couple of galleys on long go-tos. One is headed for murcia with a mace and a xbow on board, the other is bound for Mecca.

Domestic and finances

Completing the FP and opening borders with Toku really boosted our income. We're now running 50% in the black with engineering due in six turns. I also whipped a library in Ning-Hsia. Otherwise I didn't whip much. E.g. Karakorum has about 30 turns of whip anger left, you horrible slave-drivers.

Patagonia is up when his skip ends tomorrow. (I think.)

Save

remconius · Sep 21, 2007

The (messy) Roster

Remconius (UP tonight)
Cam_H (on deck for the weekend)
cabert
Stuge

patagonia (skip till Sept 23)
lordofcivs (A.W.O.L.)
Pigswill (lurking)

patagonia can be inserted after Cam or cabert. we'll give him a chance to read up on recent events after he comes back on Sunday.

remconius · Sep 21, 2007

Good stuff, Stuge.

I agree to sign peace with Isa and take on Cyrus, together with Toku. We can take on Isa afterwards again, just before doing Toku.

Anything else?

cabert · Sep 21, 2007

I too agree for peace with Isabella.
Maybe we could try to get philo instead of music, on the way to liberalism?

I also agree with going for Cyrus (in fact it was my intention when signing peace with Toku!), and I also agree with being soft on the whip for a while : we've got cottages to work!

I don't know if it's doable or not, but I would go for education pretty soon after that, with astronomy in sight.
Some bit of long term "micromanagement" I would try for this is :
- build loads of happy units all around the place, and leave out the whip for a while
- grow at least six cities to size 10+
- get libraries in them if missing
- whip universities asap!
- oxford in mecca or another big cottages +food city

That's pretty long term though.

About the war on cyrus, remember it's vanilla. This means mass catapults. count 4 lost catapults for each city. Meaning that it's senseless to attack any city without at least those 4, and for an ongoing war, we need steady reinforcements of those. They do not necessarily need promotions, but if they get one, I favour city raider to hurt the top defender a bit.

patagonia · Sep 21, 2007

I have terrible RNG luck with CR catapults not scratching the top defender, so I tend to favour barrage instead and sacrifice a non-siege unit to hurt the top guy afterwards. Maybe that's just me though.

I'm still here and keeping up to date as best I can without being able to see the game. However, my autoskip will need to be extended by about 10 days I think (still don't have a moving date, but the end of the month is looking much more promising).

In the meantime, dogpiling Cyrus with Toku seems like a good move, especially as they'll have trashed most of their stacks before our army can arrive. If we're still thinking domination, it doesn't much matter which order we take the others out in.

remconius · Sep 21, 2007

Signed peace with Isa, started taking on Cyrus. He is one tough cookie to crack. He took out some keshiks with pikes. We missed two cities that Toku took out right from under my nose before units were in position.

Toledo, Murcia, Pamplona and the 2 cities on halfway island need to focus on production, no cottages there. Only unit production. Seville and Barcelona are pretty good production centres, but need to be big to generate a bunch of commerce.
In our old world Turfan and karakorum can focus on commerce. I built an extra cottage for Mecca and am converting the horse tile to cottage too (we have 5 horses)

I only did a few small whips, mainly focusing on growing the cities and cottages.

On the last turn Isa declares on Toku!

Turn 310, 1520 AD:
Comment: I change some tiles and work orders. Market started in Barcelona!
You have made peace with Isabella!
You have discovered Philosophy!

upgrade cr3 national hero to mace
WW has reduce greatly!
You have constructed a Library in Ning-hsia. Work has now begun on a Theatre.
You have constructed a Theatre in Pamplona. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.

Toku's attack force

Turn 311/660 (1523 AD) [21-Sep-2007 21:59:43]
Toledo begins: Catapult (4 turns)
Ning-hsia finishes: Theatre
Seville finishes: Barracks
Toledo grows: 7
New Sarai finishes: Theatre

Cyrus wants peace for New Sarai, hahaha

Turn 312/660 (1526 AD) [21-Sep-2007 22:05:23]
New Sarai begins: Chariot (10 turns)
Turfan grows: 9
Old Sarai finishes: Maceman
Murcia grows: 5

Turn 313/660 (1529 AD) [21-Sep-2007 22:08:15]
Old Sarai begins: Maceman (9 turns)
Karakorum grows: 11
Beshbalik grows: 7
Seville grows: 7
Valencia finishes: Granary
Pamplona finishes: Work Boat

Turn 314/660 (1532 AD) [21-Sep-2007 22:11:45]
Pamplona begins: Maceman (27 turns)
Tech learned: Engineering

Mecca finishes: Longbowman
Murcia grows: 6
Toledo finishes: Catapult
Tech learned: Music

Turn 315/660 (1535 AD) [21-Sep-2007 22:14:57]
Mecca begins: Harbor (4 turns)
Toledo begins: Catapult (4 turns)
Research begun: Paper (10 Turns)
Mecca grows: 13
Toledo grows: 8
Valencia grows: 3
Pamplona's borders expand
Hinduism has spread: Arbela (Persian Empire)
Hinduism has spread: Arbela (Japanese Empire)
While defending in Persian territory near Samaria, Keshik loses to: Persian Pikeman (2.40/6) (Prob Victory: 4.7%)
While defending in Persian territory near Samaria, Keshik loses to: Persian Pikeman (3.48/6) (Prob Victory: 1.7%)
While defending in Persian territory near Samaria, Keshik defeats (2.88/6): Persian Pikeman (Prob Victory: 1.9%)
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Comment: sorry Cyrus pulls out 3 pikes out of nowhere! 2 Keshiks persish
Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Tokugawa is first to circumnavigate the world.

Turn 316/660 (1538 AD) [21-Sep-2007 22:22:13]

Keshik promoted: Shock
New Sarai begins: Work Boat (12 turns)
Ning-hsia grows: 7
Barcelona grows: 7
New Sarai's borders expand

Turn 317/660 (1541 AD) [21-Sep-2007 22:27:38]
Mecca finishes: Harbor
Murcia grows: 7
Toledo finishes: Catapult

Turn 318/660 (1544 AD) [21-Sep-2007 22:31:03]
Mecca begins: Caravel (5 turns)
Toledo begins: Maceman (7 turns)
Karakorum grows: 12
Turfan grows: 10
Ning-hsia finishes: Hindu Missionary
Toledo grows: 9
New Sarai finishes: Chariot
Judaism has spread: Sidon (Persian Empire)
Judaism has spread: Sidon (Japanese Empire)
While defending in Persian territory at Bactra, Keshik loses to: Persian Catapult (1.70/5) (Prob Victory: 67.9%)
While defending in Persian territory at Bactra, Keshik loses to: Persian Knight (10.00/10) (Prob Victory: 0.1%)

Turn 319/660 (1547 AD) [21-Sep-2007 22:36:45]
Archer promoted: City Garrison I
Ning-hsia begins: Hindu Missionary (10 turns)
Old Sarai begins: Work Boat (4 turns)
Old Sarai grows: 8
Murcia grows: 8
Valencia finishes: Theatre
While defending in Persian territory near Samaria, Catapult loses to: Persian Knight (7.40/10) (Prob Victory: 0.4%)
Civics Change: Qin Shi Huang(China) from 'Decentralization' to 'Mercantilism'

Turn 320/660 (1550 AD) [21-Sep-2007 22:41:28]
Hinduism has spread: Karakorum
Valencia begins: Catapult (15 turns)
Barcelona grows: 8
Isabella(Spain) declares war on Tokugawa(Japan)

Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 321/660 (1553 AD) [21-Sep-2007 22:46:31]
Accidently pressed enter. Didnt move the units yet.

THE SAVE

The Roster

Remconius
Cam_H (UP)
cabert (on deck)
Stuge

patagonia (skip till Oct 1)
lordofcivs (A.W.O.L.)
Pigswill (lurking)

Cam_H · Sep 22, 2007

Highlights

Seized and then lost Samaria while backing away from losses at Bactra.

Tokugawa signed peace with Cyrus, but Alexander declared war on him.

Heroic Epic will be built in Toledo next turn.

Papers in halfway to Education, but Cyrus might beat us to Liberalism.

1553AD : Opening

The stack of Catapults outside Bactra knock its defences down to 20%. As pleased as Alexander is with us, hes got enough on his hands :shifty:

. Both Cyrus and Tokugawa have some pretty large stacks of cash, which could signal Gunpowder upgrades. Otherwise, effort spent on Worker improvements.

Greece has a Settler parked near our Iron Mine just outside of our borders to the east of Beshbalik.

ibt: Our famous National Hero Maceman perishes to a Knight out of Bactra. I have growing concern that we no longer have sufficient units to take this moderately well defended city.

1556AD

Murcia: Crossbow > Pikeman (Cyrus seems to have a lot of Knights)
Toledo: Maceman (whipped) > Heroic Epic
Pamplona: Interrupt Maceman > Granary
Bactras defences are down to zip, but all the Cats have moved.
:science:

down to 40% +9 :gold:

/turn
Clam deal with Tokugawa (6 :gold:

/turn) is cancelled with the hope of picking up more regrettably he has only 3 :gold:

/turn to trade. Pass.
Renegotiate trades with Alexander; Pigs for 7 :gold:

/turn
Note that Persia has Musketmen super :rolleyes:

.

ibt: Knights attack our SoD outside Bactra, we lose an Axe but kill off a Knight - our Spearman isnt fighting fit though. Japan takes Tarsus from Persia.

1559AD

Enoughs enough. Move SoD away from unwinnable Bactra.
Mecca: Caravel > Settler we may as well grab some land to the south before the AI does.

ibt: Alexander declares war on Cyrus. Small sigh of relief.

1562AD

As our troops withdraw from the seemingly hopeless assault on Bactra, they stumble upon a new Persian city in Samaria just north of Delhi.
Karakorums population reaches 13 (the new citizen working a coast) and the Market is whipped with the overflow directed to a Hindu Monastery.

ibt: A Persian Catapult chases our retreating SoD, and while delivering collateral damage, dies to our Spearman.

1565AD

Samarias defences are ground down.
Beshbalik: Forge > Taoist Missionary (for Karakorum)
Seville: Granary (whipped) > Market

1568AD

The battle for Samaria; the troops retreating from Bactra in the north combine with reinforcements assembling from the south via Delhi are able to take the city (don't get too excited - payback later), although witnessing the demise of two Catapults in the ferocity of the encounter.

Ning-hsia: Hindu Missionary (whipped for Tufan) > Catapult
Old Sarai: Pikeman (whipped) > Work Boat
Renegotiate trade deals with Tokugawa, who agrees to 11 :gold:

/turn for Dye.

ibt: A fortified injured Spearman just outside of Samaria is taken out by a Persian Catapult.

1571AD

Barcelona: Market > Forge
Sell Drama to Alexander for 210 :gold:

and sign mutual Open Borders.
:science:

increased to 60%.
Note that Cyrus has both Education and Philosophy. Hmmm.
Persian Catapult dies to Crossbow out of Samaria.

ibt: Tokugawa and Cyrus somewhat disappointingly sign a peace deal. Cyrus switches into Theocracy hopefully his attention is directed at Greece. Note that Tokugawa has 1,820 :gold:

. Hmmm. Greece switches to Theocracy and Vassalage Alexander means business!

1574AD

Ning-hsias Hindu Missionary is successful in spreading Hinduism into Tufan.
The Greek Settler that was near Beshbalik takes coverage in Ning-hsia.
Move the bulk of the troops in Samaria towards the big, yet lightly defended Persian cities to the west.

1577 AD

Trade Fur for Dye with Qin Shi Huang.
Old Sarai: Work Boat > Maceman
Murcia: Pikeman > Catapult
New Sarai: Work Boat > Granary
Karakorum: Harbor (whipped population 13) > Christian Monastery.

ibt: Oooops with the SoD out of Samaria, the city is taken by two Persian Knights that take out our lone Crossbow :cringe:

.

1580 AD

Turfan: Forge > Market.

Conclusion:

We have a fairly unconvincing SoD in Persian territory, but Cyrus has left his cities fairly poorly defended, and its quite possible that we can cause him some real harm.

As noted, Meccas soon to produce a Settler, and I think that in light of our Domination goal, then we need to consider land-grabbing beyond the main continent there are lots of islands that the AIs now starting to look at.

I feel that Toledos Heroic Epic will be an important step in refreshing lost troops. As one of the graphics below indicates, Murcia would benefit from Hinduism (for a Forge) if its to continue as a unit pump.

Monasteries will help Karakorum (as noted, Taoism next in line) and with Mecca being such a solid city, Hinduism would probably help there too re. :science:

-haul.

Stats and what not;

Boring turn log;

Spoiler :

The Save

[Edit]

The Roster

cabert (UP)
Stuge (on deck)
Remconius
Cam_H

patagonia (skip till Oct 1)
lordofcivs (A.W.O.L.)
Pigswill (lurking)

[/Edit]

cabert · Sep 24, 2007

I almost got it.
Well, DLed the game, opened it and ... had a power failure. Didn't even manage to open any advisor :lol:

.

I think I can play tonight or tomorrow night, not sure though (RL issues may come in the way).

My understanding of the next steps :
- build up a military force to deal with cyrus. If Toku keeps hitting him, it should be easy enough. The bad thing being that toku keeps taking cities while we don't, we must change this! Following toku's stack may be a good idea?
- tech up towards steel, using the liberalism path? If we can get gunpowder from cyrus (seems unlikely) or any other, we may not need lib.

Cam_H · Sep 24, 2007

Tokugawa's at war with Isabella, but not Cyrus. If we were better equipped and not distracted by Persia, I'd recommend joining Japanese-Spanish war, but just don't know which side to join! :lol:

Otherwise - agree with all of the above. Cyrus is still tech'ing ahead of us - up; Guilds, Gunpowder, Banking and Education at least - he can't avoid Liberalism forever!

I'm surprised that our PowerChart is as high as it is to be honest, but Toledo's Heroic Epic should start to address unit numbers across the next few turnsets.

I feel quite disoriented with Alexander however - he's been a great ally!

cabert · Sep 24, 2007

Highlights :
- toledo finished its HE and churns units like there is no tomorrow
- cyrus is on his knees, begging for a peace I don't think he deserves
- liberalism was long gone when we reached education
- we're comfortably n°1 in score, even without our barb allies
- universities started all over the place, enough of them to build oxford in karakorum. please whip them asap

Inherited turn : I ask Alex for his 80 gold, he gives them with a smile

.

1583 AD : troops moving. HE finished, I start a maceman. Toku closes border. Sounds bad. I sell him our map for 190 gold. Less upgrades, although he has his pockets quite full.

1586 : troops moving. No combat yet.
A new city is settled right under mecca. It costs us 8 gpt to start with, not counting the increase of per city cost all around the place. I put it on a theatre to start with, while the workers improve the pasture. IMHO, this city will be enough to claim the rest of the tiles there.

1589 : I bomb pasargardae down to 15%. It's only filled with pikes, our maces have over 96% odds, no sense in waiting. It's ours for no losses and it comes with a worker, an academy, a courthouse and a lighthouse at size 10 (with 4 unhappies, just what I need to whip a forge or a market)

. I put it on a library though, for the lightning fast universities.

Cyrus feels our wrath and would gives us his map and money for peace.

Missionary fails to spread taoism in karakorum, no luck here.

I whip a market in beshbalik. I know I shouldn't but I just can't stand its slow growth + I want another missionary.

1592 AD : I change the watermill to a farm in murcia. We want the hammers in toledo!

1595AD: troops moving.

1598 AD : samaria is ours. The catapult I used to soften the defending knights (!) retreated, the pike had over 80%, so did the CR1 maceman. We're certaily trailing in tech, but we're solid n°1 in score.
The barb research is bringing guild in just as fast as we're researching education :lol:

I bomb Bacra to 0.

1601 : we take bacra. It costs us most of our catapults.

1604 : I regroup our troops for a final assault (on my turnset, persepolis still stands, like susa and 2 other cities) on tyre. Cyrus would give us education for peace. It's not a good deal we're 2 turns away from it.
I sell our world map to qin for 420 gold.

1607 : bacra is ours again, at the cost of a mace! It was lost to a musketman IBT.
1610 : education in. I start Liberalism, without much hope. After checking, cyrus has it already. I didn't see any mention of it. Someone probably missed it at some point. Anyway, I change to gunpowder (due in 6 at 70%, unsustainable, but we can sell paper or something to alex).
I whip a granary in samaria, and start universities all over the place, including toledo (done in 8 turns, I think we can afford this). Cyrus is toast, there is no production in his cities and alexander keeps pressure on him. WW is climbing but I really don't see any point in sueing for peace in the next turns.

Of course, this means I didn't have time to get tyre, but the stack is ready to go (needs healing but there is a medic there).

remconius · Sep 24, 2007

Nice turnsets. Good to see us make some progress on the high-tech nations.

The Roster

cabert
Stuge (UP)
Remconius (on deck)
Cam_H

patagonia (skip till Oct 1)
lordofcivs (A.W.O.L.)
Pigswill (lurking)

Cam_H · Sep 24, 2007

Well done Cabert! Great progress. :thumbsup:

SGOTM 05 - Trash Team

Big mouth

Deity

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Big mouth

Deity

Emperor

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Big mouth

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Big mouth

Deity

Big mouth

Deity

Deity

Similar threads