I got the save, not yet opened
Merum, i remembered the power/soldiers thing was complicated, but not in that way. Anyway, there's a lot of interesting articles in the war academy.
Well done GB, just a critic: i will not have risked the WE to the sword, but an axe (Hanni units were unpromoted).
Well done to cross the river, i'll bombard and start the attack ASA defenses will drop to 0.
If Athens will go with not much losses, i propose to go right to Thebes, plenty of workers, and to keep it for the marble.
Whip a CH in Athens is OK?
Build the Confu Shrine with the arriving Prophet is OK?
I noticed we are on the happiness/health cap, perhaps i whip some granaries?
I think i'll set research to break-even, then with some CH and the shrine (if you agree on this) we can improve our economy.
Don't forget that if we build the shrine, we need some missionaries, and we have to build them and 1-2 monasteries.
Noticed Hanni has Monarchy, let's hope to not face LBs.
I think i'll play tonight, waiting some input, especially for Thebes
If there are workers in Thebes, then I support going for it instead of turning around.
I don't know about building the shrine. I don't want to waste time on building missionaries, so either settling it as a specialist or holding it for theocracy might be better.
I read a lot of the academy articles, but I'm not much of a "spreadsheet player", so detailed mathematical breakdowns of the inner workings of the game get tedious for me. I'm more of a gut player in that regard.
EDIT: Not really sure marble is all that valuable to us... we're building military, not wonders.
Well, we can put it in this way:
we're not goin' to build wonders, so marble is useless for us; the ToA is already built, and remain the Parthenon and the HS, but prolly the Parthenon will arrive soon.
So, we can raze it, we are plenty of other gold sites.
Shrine: if Astro is needed, it can be worth to build it, followed by mon, miss and so on. Otherwise we can use the GP for theo or as a SSpecialist in London. Then we'll park him during my TS, and decide after we know more about the map, or we bet and just add him?
Details:
- i think i'll destroy the archer with the ele, then i'll park the chariot over copper
- i'll send an axe to cover the chariot+cat when they arrive to gold
- i think the bombardment will ask some 3 turns, maybe 4.
- i'll not pillage the wineries, we lack he tech to improve them, and we can use
Merum, i agree about the game mechanics: a bit of knowledge is OK, but too much of "spreadsheet play" is... too much, i prefer to play (and do my mistakes) by gut, perhaps with some planning.
Shrine: if Astro is needed, it can be worth to build it, followed by mon, miss and so on. Otherwise we can use the GP for theo or as a SSpecialist in London. Then we'll park him during my TS, and decide after we know more about the map, or we bet and just add him?
This is what I never really understood about the CoL and religion push. Where were/are we going with it? Anyhow, it looks like a good TS, GB, but I won't get a chance to check the save til tomorrow (it's midnight now )don't rush into anything
I has planned to play tonight (now), but since you ask to discuss, i'll wait 'til tomorrow.
About the Confu thing: IIRC all the team approved it, sure we could have chosen MC, but no one seemed interested.
You was somewhere in the Aussie desert, or else, and posted nothing.
It appeared that CHs and a religion would be better than forges.
Was it the right choice? maybe not, we'll see.
I strongly defend the choice to build the Oracle: we did, not the AI, and this is surely a great advantage, more than have 3 or 4 units added to our army.
Nothing else to add to my previous posts, just let me know what to do:
1) with the prophet
2) with Thebes
3) whip granaries? London+York
4) whip CH? Athens+Utica or granary first, then CH?
5) open
Alex has stockpiled his workers somewhere. If they are in Thebes, it makes sense capture them and increase our worker productivity. Hannibal also had a lot of workers in his second city.
Whipping granaries will increase our health, but if we don't also increase our happiness limit on population, it won't do us any good.
We can get away with whipping 1 Pop in either city if necessary, because with our current improvements, it doesn't take long to re populate.
Prophet - If we are not going Culture then the Holy Building is not a priority, lets see what Tech we can get, will it be beneficial, is it just one GP for a Golden age?
I noticed that in analyzing the battle stats where our Ellie was lost, It shows 4-5 rounds of "extra combat", almost killing our Ellie before any damage was done to the Swordsman. Am I missing something? I looked at Hannibal's Units first and it didn't indicate any special abilities. With odds of 95.6% I was pretty confident.
About the Confu thing: IIRC all the team approved it, sure we could have chosen MC, but no one seemed interested.
You was somewhere in the Aussie desert, or else, and posted nothing.
It appeared that CHs and a religion would be better than forges. That is not really what I'm getting at. What is our future plan for religion? If we are spreading and shrining, which one? ie York is a production city, so perhaps we can wait til we own Hindu, or something? I'm leaning toward saving the GP for now.
Nothing else to add to my previous posts, just let me know what to do:
1) with the prophet
2) with Thebes The workers would be great - but raze it, imho. If we want marble later, we can settle it, otherwise saving on maint for better cities is the go.
3) whip granaries? London+York I think so. Perhaps whip in one and build in the other, doing the opposite with forges? Just max the overflow into units, and it'll be fine
4) whip CH? Athens+Utica or granary first, then CH?Depends on the maint.. prolly CHs.
5) open no save
Whipping granaries will increase our health, but if we don't also increase our happiness limit on population, it won't do us any good. True, but it does put the food to good use, and if we are going to whip forges next, which will help happiness, a whip with a granary is more effective.
I noticed that in analyzing the battle stats where our Ellie was lost, It shows 4-5 rounds of "extra combat", almost killing our Ellie before any damage was done to the Swordsman. Am I missing something? I looked at Hannibal's Units first and it didn't indicate any special abilities. With odds of 95.6% I was pretty confident. RNG? I think we are due a few long odds battle going our way very soon
I've played some 15 turns, too curious to see how things went in Utica.
Not much to discuss, anyway
IT 177 - 155 AD
just some MM at York, switched Utica to CH
t178
Our GProphet is born, he can teach us Meditation... parked in London, waiting decisions.
wiped the archer on copper, WE to promote, bombardment began
t181
after Athens' defenses dropped to 0, i lost all 4 cats, despite good chances, but it's Ours!!!
it comes with granary, lighthouse, GW and Pyramids
quickly revolted to representation, so we're fairly over the happiness cap, and with Athens resources we'll go soon pver the health cap!
t187
Razed Thebes with no losses, killed a barb warrior, gained 5 workers!
Switched res. to sailing, we need a naval unit!
t190
a carthaginian ministack of sword+2archers threatened Utica: quickly send a watching chariot there, and our archer was defeated by the sword, next turn he suicided, but an enemy archer killed ours, after our chariot well defended vs. another one, then i decided to take the risk, and finish him.
the ele is on route, Corinth is ours with no losses, our Athens stack is arriving with workers roading.
t193 (last, to complete)
a greek archer threatening Utica gave us our 2nd GG in London: i suggest to use him in York, or in Athens.
There're Malinese skirmishers approaching Utica, but i don't think it's a big problem.
The server is still down, so i can't upload the save
here is THE SAVE
the Autolog
Spoiler:
Utica begins: Courthouse (36 turns) Mo Tzu (Great Prophet) born in London York finishes: Axeman
IBT:
Turn 178/660 (170 AD) [10-Jan-2008 16:31:22] York begins: War Elephant (7 turns) While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, War Elephant defeats (7.04/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 99.8%) London finishes: War Elephant
Turn 181/660 (215 AD) [10-Jan-2008 16:40:34] While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Catapult loses to: Greek Archer (2.49/3) (Prob Victory: 16.6%) While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Catapult loses to: Greek Archer (1.11/3) (Prob Victory: 22.5%) While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Catapult loses to: Greek Archer (1.02/3) (Prob Victory: 81.6%) While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Catapult loses to: Greek Archer (1.35/3) (Prob Victory: 65.3%) While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Axeman defeats (2.15/5): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 94.4%) While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Axeman defeats (2.30/5): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 96.3%) While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Chariot defeats (2.24/4): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 83.4%) While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, War Elephant defeats (6.96/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%) A Camp was built near York While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 99.3%) While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Axeman defeats (3.30/5): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 99.5%) Captured Athens (Alexander) Athens begins: Courthouse (180 turns)
IBT: Civics Change: Churchill(England) from 'Despotism' to 'Representation' Civics Change: Alexander(Greece) from 'Police State' to 'Despotism'
Turn 182/660 (230 AD) [10-Jan-2008 16:49:45] While attacking in English territory near York, War Elephant defeats (4.16/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%) While attacking in English territory near York, Axeman defeats (0.50/5): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 94.8%)
Turn 184/660 (260 AD) [10-Jan-2008 16:54:17] London begins: Catapult (5 turns) While attacking in English territory at York, War Elephant defeats (4.16/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
IBT:
Turn 185/660 (275 AD) [10-Jan-2008 16:56:39] York finishes: War Elephant
IBT:
Turn 186/660 (290 AD) [10-Jan-2008 16:58:14] York begins: Courthouse (15 turns) Research begun: Sailing (10 Turns)
IBT:
Turn 187/660 (305 AD) [10-Jan-2008 16:59:52] While attacking in Greek territory at Thebes, War Elephant defeats (8.00/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 95.8%) While attacking in Greek territory at Thebes, Axeman defeats (2.60/5): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 85.2%) Captured Thebes (Alexander) Razed Thebes Thebes lost While attacking in the wild near Athens, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 100.0%) London finishes: Catapult
Turn 190/660 (350 AD) [10-Jan-2008 17:08:08] A Cottage was built near London
IBT: While defending in Carthaginian territory at Utica, Archer loses to: Carthaginian Swordsman (1.44/6) (Prob Victory: 48.4%)
Turn 191/660 (365 AD) [10-Jan-2008 17:10:25] York begins: Chariot (4 turns) A Mine was built near Athens A Farm was built near York While attacking in Greek territory at Corinth, War Elephant defeats (4.16/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 87.5%) While attacking in Greek territory at Corinth, War Elephant defeats (6.80/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 95.8%) While attacking in Greek territory at Corinth, Axeman defeats (2.45/5): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 70.6%) Captured Corinth (Alexander) Corinth begins: Courthouse (180 turns) London finishes: Catapult
IBT: While defending in English territory at Utica, Archer defeats (1.20/3): Carthaginian Swordsman (Prob Victory: 84.5%) While defending in English territory at Utica, Chariot defeats (1.12/4): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 67.8%) While defending in Carthaginian territory at Utica, Archer loses to: Carthaginian Archer (0.24/3) (Prob Victory: 15.9%) A Fishing Boats was destroyed near Athens
Turn 192/660 (380 AD) [10-Jan-2008 17:32:25] London begins: War Elephant (7 turns) While attacking in English territory at Utica, Chariot defeats (0.20/4): Carthaginian Archer (Prob Victory: 83.6%)
IBT:
Turn 193/660 (395 AD) [10-Jan-2008 17:40:02] George Patton (Great General) born in London While attacking in English territory near Utica, War Elephant defeats (4.64/8): Greek Archer (Prob Victory: 98.7%)
As you can see above, i already revolted to representation, we was close to the happiness cap. Not true we don't have specialists, we have 2 GMI (1 to settle).
Anyway, we can do it if you think is better.
Okay, I have the save and am back home and in pocket.
Looking at where we're at:
Wow is our economy in sorry shape. Ouch. At only four cities we're breakeven at 10% research. Now, we're spending 15gpt on military (10 cost, 5 supply) and can certainly get some of it back in pillaging, but we need to get our cottaging on ASAP. Now that we have plenty of workers we should focus on improvements that help our econ. Courthouses will help, but not an extreme amount.
Our next military target should be Sparta, which should finish off Alex, remove the "yearn to join motherland" penalties in Corinth and Athens, and remove the threat of naval harrassment on Athens. It doesn't seem that special of a city, though, and I think I would raze it.
Our GG should be settled in York. Prophet should probably be settled in London.
Athens will function as a GP farm once it is up and running. It will never be much of a production city, and should get a library ASAP to run scientists x2. Corinth should be a killer economy city. Cottage everything but the Copper and the Gold.
Rep was a good choice. PS will be useful later, but for now the Happiness and research will be of greater benefit than the +25% mil production. We are falling too far behind in tech not to go with Rep for the time being.
For my TS my first priority will be to defend Utica with what units are in range; that MM stack (skirmishers x3, warrior x1) should not be taken too lightly. From there I think I will focus mostly on pillaging with our existing units, and building up another force of catapults at home.
Civ, i couldn't have said better.
I moved the 2 axes and the chariot watchin' the wine to help Utica, and a cat is on route. We must only defend, until we have finished Alex and we can have our West side free and our stacks there.
Raze Sparta, or whatever is the last greek city, too far from London.
I'm glad you agree on representation, i'm not a fan of PS: if we were Religious, thus with no anarchy, we could have switched back and forth, but i think Repr is the way to go.
After sailing go back to MC
I'm chopping the CH in Athens, we need a WB too, use the overflow after the chop is complete you'll can whip it.
Roster:
Civicide- up
Sweetacshon - on deck
Merum
Greatbeyond
Blubmuz - resting
Turning research to 60% will get us sailing finished in 3 at a cost of 63g. It's imperative that we find the other civs ASAP, because they're not at war until we find them. They'll be happily living a non-war life until then.
After that, we can go for sailing Monotheism/Meditation, and spend the prophet in London on Theocracy, giving our units a much needed extra promotion out of the gate. This is my preferred use of the GP.
Cottages will for sure help our pocketbooks, also camping the rest of the ivory near York.
I'm not really happy that we're building courthouse in Utica while it's defended by only an archer a wounded chariot with a stack of 3 skirmishers and a warrior 2 turns away from it. That city needs defense right now. The jumbo and the cat nearby need to go there until that stack is resolved. Production should switch to military. The court can be built either with chopping, whip overflow, or both.
Ditto Corinth. Military before courthouse. We can't let our forces dwindle while we putz around building gov't buildings. We've got the initiative here, and we shouldn't mess around and lose it.
The wineries around Hadrumetum are still not pillaged, although there are two axes standing on top of them.
Whether Mansa has skirmishers or LB, we're going to need a bunch of cats to crack him. Both of those units are murder in city defense.
Our next non-general GP will come from Athens unless something changes in the meantime, which means it will be an engineer. too bad it's 92 turns away.
I agree about sailing, but to know the map, not to meet the remaining civs.
A phony war with us changes nothing for them (and we don't have enough forces to wipe our neighbors, surely for a long time we can't threaten them), but, without a common enemy there's some chance that they go to war between themselves. Pity 3 early religions were founded in our continent, we risk to find a buddist block.
I think there's some typo in your post, do you mean MC after sailing?
I start thinking if calendar is better, but it's only a question of priorities.
I left the axes on the wineries, hoping to use them: we lack monarchy, and for awhile, and they can be precious if we keep that city, and it seems worth to. I thought that in this way we have some troops already in place, it was a bet that no one would have attacked with the poor forces they have.
The same bet i took attacking the damaged archer with the damaged chariot.
It's not a case the ele and the cat are en-route to Utica: first to defend it, second to prepare the invasion of Carthage (delenda Carthago )
To use the GP for Theo we need Medi and Monoth, but we need also that all our cities share the same religion, or it will be uneffective (or the main productives, at least).
On the other hand we'll continue to pop GG, i have suggested to put the present one in Athens, that is a great production city, with 3h in the spot, a gold and a copper mine, and it can be useful to produce our naval units with combat1, but York is pehaps better if we don't think to the naval units.
We need also some to protect the fishing nets, at least one each.
Plans -
Elephant and Cat to Utica, Chariot nearby moves to help assault MM's stack Take Sparta and keep it, then move all forces to Carthage, capture and keep. Then raze Kerkouane . Move forces to Hadrumetum
Settle GG in York.
I am also tempted to keep the GP and use him to research Theology.
I suppose I was unaware we kept Utica. I think it was a bad move, and Corinth line ball. We have to be harsh about this, and not keep even the middling to good cities, which means no Sparta, no Kerkouane, and no Hadrumetum (pillage the wines - there are wines at Carthage that we will get eventually, and we'll have forges soon for happiness).
It's probably time we started looking at cities. London is cottagable, but we should probably keep it as production, as the eastern side of this continent is much richer in commerce terms. York is a no brainer. Athens will be good for a navy, and a GPfarm. Corinth needs cottages. Utica I was thinking cottages also, but if you look at MMs lands, we can take another 3-4 commerce cities, so perhaps it can be prod'n, anyway, I'm undecided. So, cottage the crap out of Corinth, and perhaps Utica, as well as Carthage when we get it. Speaking of workers, there are 3 putting in a useless farm near London - WTH? We really need them on road duty, with a besieged city at the front which is unconnected.
I'm good with sailing, but perhaps raise the slider to 20-30%, which is 5-7 turns losing 20-35 (or so), and then back to MC. If we want to bulb Theo, we could always settle the GP in London, build a temple (useful anyway) and get another one?? edit- London is already putting out 5xp units, so 7xp doesn't help as much as putting the GG in York, allowing it to produce 5xp units, imo.
One other thing, we have a few units in Mali, without much hope of doing much except spying, maybe they could at least cut roads.. I notice the axe is sitting there fortifies next to a road.
Believe it or not, it's actually cheaper to research sailing at 60% than it is at lower amounts. For example, at 50% it ends up costing us 64g and 4 turns, while at 60% it costs us 63g and 3 turns.
Holding the GP while researching med/mon is quicker to theo than it is to wait for another prophet.
To summarize:
- OK for the GG in York
- OK for sailing at 60%, in case we can use the 0/100 research for awhile, after this
- the farm is not useless, it gives rice, and we are at the health cap, and it can be useful also when we'll settle there (gold+rice city, remember?)
- pity, but i must agree about Hadrumetum: too far from London, but we have at least 2 more TSs to decide if keep or raze it
- Utica has no barracks, so we can start an archer and whip it in the 2nd turn, just in time, putting the overflow in the CH
- i scouted a bit, the land Around athens and the north-east, discovering malinese cities and keeping the axe to spy (he's alone) i was very prudent wih the units, skirmishers are strong, and i was waiting the chariot to join the axe, fortified in a jungle hill is unbetable.
- the road crew is arriving, Athens/Corinth are already hooked
- raze Sparta (pity, but we can't afford it's cost and the units to protect)
I'm sure someone will appreciate this:
Spoiler:
On a public toilet wall in Houston: If you voted George Bush, you can't take sh1t here, your ass-hole is in Washington!
Hope the translation is OK, and the 1 replaces the i. I didn't thought we can't post dirty words.
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This is what I never really understood about the CoL and religion push. Where were/are we going with it? Anyhow, it looks like a good TS, GB, but I won't get a chance to check the save til tomorrow (it's midnight now 
)don't rush into anything 
)
