Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Alpha > Lit. I was thinking of the HE, with each of those techs just 4 turns. As for astro, caravels can do the defending,if needed... I'd prefer to tech to better units if we can.
SGOTM 06 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Alpha > Lit. I was thinking of the HE, with each of those techs just 4 turns. As for astro, caravels can do the defending,if needed... I'd prefer to tech to better units if we can.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Merum's points about Astro are OK, what i disagree is the way to arrive there.
We need to know what techs our rivals have, and HE is also useful, and also a NE in Athens can be. I give for sure Astro is needed, though we can't be completely sure until we don't scout East.
Thus i agree with Alpha-Lit, then perhaps CS, not Astro directly.
I agree also with the need to cover our territory with units ready to counter-attack in case of invasion, so let's distribute them in strategic points, where they can cover 2-3 cities in short time.
Astro... but we probably need knights, if not rifles (one of the best UU).
Our priority is our economy, to sustain a good research, say 70%.
Saxon: it has production, food and commerce: take it!!!
We can wait for the fish+gold city, we need to be sure Ragnar can not reach us by galley.
We need to know what techs our rivals have, and HE is also useful, and also a NE in Athens can be. I give for sure Astro is needed, though we can't be completely sure until we don't scout East.
Thus i agree with Alpha-Lit, then perhaps CS, not Astro directly.
I agree also with the need to cover our territory with units ready to counter-attack in case of invasion, so let's distribute them in strategic points, where they can cover 2-3 cities in short time.
Astro... but we probably need knights, if not rifles (one of the best UU).
Our priority is our economy, to sustain a good research, say 70%.
Saxon: it has production, food and commerce: take it!!!
We can wait for the fish+gold city, we need to be sure Ragnar can not reach us by galley.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
I won't play tonight, as there is still no consensus on techs or the FP. Saxon and the gold cities there is no rush for, but as the units become available, should probably be dealt with. I think we all agree on beefing up the nvy and at least prebuilding the army. I think it is also time to grab theo.
greatbeyond
King
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 989
If we knew if this was going to be a long term game, we could plot a better strategy. As we don't, I suggest going for the short term gain of Alph then Lit. While doing this we should be exploring East to figure out whether Astronomy is necessary. Two things come to mind. If Hannibal doesn't have Astro, then how did he get to the Island we see, as it appears it is not connected by "Coast" to our continent. Is the link via the islands to the East of Carthage? With Astro we could settle the lands to our West. Perhaps it would be enough to go over the Domination limit.
If we still have our Gr Prophet, then use him for Theo, he's not doing us any good sitting around.
I haven't really figured out where the FP should go but we should get it going soon if we are going to fill our continent with cities.
A strong Navy will help us keep Ragnar from destroying our galleys.
If we still have our Gr Prophet, then use him for Theo, he's not doing us any good sitting around.
I haven't really figured out where the FP should go but we should get it going soon if we are going to fill our continent with cities.
A strong Navy will help us keep Ragnar from destroying our galleys.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I forgot the FP in my previous: we can frozen it, until we don't decide what to do. We have no knowledge if we can go for conquest or or Dom.
But if we decide to go for dom, and to wait to build the FP in another continent, better move the capital in York, at least it's more central and less vulnerable.
Hanni's island:
it can be reached by galley (otherwise how can he be there?) there's 1 coast tile between the 2 land masses.
Surely the first taget is to scout that side and destroy him, once and for all.
As i already said, keep that city ONLY if there's some resource we lack, and it it's a good city.
But if we decide to go for dom, and to wait to build the FP in another continent, better move the capital in York, at least it's more central and less vulnerable.
Hanni's island:
it can be reached by galley (otherwise how can he be there?) there's 1 coast tile between the 2 land masses.
Surely the first taget is to scout that side and destroy him, once and for all.
As i already said, keep that city ONLY if there's some resource we lack, and it it's a good city.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
I'm OK with the alpha-lit path, and with the plan in general.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Oh, if only there were a plan
The FP, btw has only 2 turns to go in Djenne (iiirc), but it just seems silly to put it 12 odd tiles away from our capital if we're going the dom win, but the short term benefits would be a reduction in maint... the average maint cost is 5gpt, so that would save, what, 10-20gpt right now? What dictates what win we head for, then? The continent sizes? The tech lead? What else?
I'll play today, and pause the FP for the moment
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
the pain
I played 15, although I stopped when I played 10, thinking it was 15, took some screenshots, realised my mistake, and then played the rest. It's so damn humid that I can't concentrate (or sleep), so hopefully I didn't screw up (apart from the screenshots which are a few turns early).
The economy was retooled for even more science, to rush along alpha and lit, and then back to astro. The reason we didn't go for CS or eng, which we sorely need, is that there is no way to island hop. At least we're safe for the moment from Ragnar, Cyrus, and Saladin, who are up CS, eng, and guilds, as well as a few "thinking" techs.
I had some poor luck with our early caravels outside carthage, but eventually chased Ragnar off, but he still has one around, as does Salad and Hanni. To the west, funnily enough, it was a little... or a lot easier, with 2 fleets checking out the enemy.
All your Saxons are belong to us, and the other one (name??? who cares) was razed. A settler is sitting ready to go on the double gold site. It's about 12 turns til astro, so it's probably time to whip/chop the last of the courts/libs/markets/etc that we need and pre build a heap of units, while teching as hard as possible... perhaps we can grab CS and/or eng. When all is ready, but before the units are built, switch into XPMode, and get
ing. As for the attack plan... 
...time will tell.
edit: Now I notice that my pics are in email size. Just one of those days/weeks/years. If anyone wants bigger ones, I can repost them.
edit 2: How sweet it is -
I played 15, although I stopped when I played 10, thinking it was 15, took some screenshots, realised my mistake, and then played the rest. It's so damn humid that I can't concentrate (or sleep), so hopefully I didn't screw up (apart from the screenshots which are a few turns early).
The economy was retooled for even more science, to rush along alpha and lit, and then back to astro. The reason we didn't go for CS or eng, which we sorely need, is that there is no way to island hop. At least we're safe for the moment from Ragnar, Cyrus, and Saladin, who are up CS, eng, and guilds, as well as a few "thinking" techs.
I had some poor luck with our early caravels outside carthage, but eventually chased Ragnar off, but he still has one around, as does Salad and Hanni. To the west, funnily enough, it was a little... or a lot easier, with 2 fleets checking out the enemy.
Spoiler map stuff :
All your Saxons are belong to us, and the other one (name??? who cares) was razed. A settler is sitting ready to go on the double gold site. It's about 12 turns til astro, so it's probably time to whip/chop the last of the courts/libs/markets/etc that we need and pre build a heap of units, while teching as hard as possible... perhaps we can grab CS and/or eng. When all is ready, but before the units are built, switch into XPMode, and get
ing. As for the attack plan... ...time will tell.Spoiler info :
Spoiler log :
edit: Now I notice that my pics are in email size. Just one of those days/weeks/years. If anyone wants bigger ones, I can repost them.
edit 2: How sweet it is -
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
It does not seems so bad to me, Sweeta.
What do you pretend from an AW game?
What i don't understand is why we are not able to reach Hanni: because we fear the caravels, or because we can't arrive there? And in this case, how can he be there?
I'll try to open the save to post some ideas, for now:
Roster:
Merum - up
Greatbeyond - on deck
Blubmuz
Civicide
Sweetacshon - resting
edit
I think our initial strategy was good: i can bet all the teams went for a fast conquest.
Our decision to build the Oracle for CoL, probably give us an advantage compared to the other teams.
Of course, not much compared to the AI which, for what i've seen by the SSs, are in a single continent and peacefully expanded and surely, when in contact each other traded a lot of techs.
Strange that Ragnar did not warred, he sems boxed... no metals perhaps?
I got the save opened while posting.
- Why we haven't finidhed Hanni yet? do we fear our galleys can be sunk by some caravel? just cover them, and finish the job, we got a -3happy penalty in 2 of our best cities.
- I noticed anjar is Persian, probably flipped, i can't see a "you declared..." in the F4/glance screen
- i noticed (damn) they already has banking, they're running mercantilism
We need to define astrategy, now that we know how our "world" is made.
first: Astro is useless, until we have some military tech. Not only useless, but probably more expensive since we have less prerequisites (not sure about this).
We need to arrive to our UU, but i'm afraid it's a long path.
CS is 5 turns away, and London is a good capital for production and commerce, let's start with that, then engineering, guilds and the shortest path to rifling. A protective REDCOAT doesn't fear the grens.
We can put Astro after guilds, but surely our WE will have a bad time vs. pikemen.
Remember this: probably all the other teams will face a situation like this, and i can bet we, with our slow conquest (see the graphs), are better prepared to afford this situation.
I propose to relent our play pace, to see how the other teams will go after a certain point.
What let me puzzled is how a prince AI can be so advanced.
So, better a nice debate to define a long term strategy before begin next TS.
What do you pretend from an AW game?
What i don't understand is why we are not able to reach Hanni: because we fear the caravels, or because we can't arrive there? And in this case, how can he be there?
I'll try to open the save to post some ideas, for now:
Roster:
Merum - up
Greatbeyond - on deck
Blubmuz
Civicide
Sweetacshon - resting
edit
I think our initial strategy was good: i can bet all the teams went for a fast conquest.
Our decision to build the Oracle for CoL, probably give us an advantage compared to the other teams.
Of course, not much compared to the AI which, for what i've seen by the SSs, are in a single continent and peacefully expanded and surely, when in contact each other traded a lot of techs.
Strange that Ragnar did not warred, he sems boxed... no metals perhaps?
I got the save opened while posting.
- Why we haven't finidhed Hanni yet? do we fear our galleys can be sunk by some caravel? just cover them, and finish the job, we got a -3happy penalty in 2 of our best cities.
- I noticed anjar is Persian, probably flipped, i can't see a "you declared..." in the F4/glance screen
- i noticed (damn) they already has banking, they're running mercantilism
We need to define astrategy, now that we know how our "world" is made.
first: Astro is useless, until we have some military tech. Not only useless, but probably more expensive since we have less prerequisites (not sure about this).
We need to arrive to our UU, but i'm afraid it's a long path.
CS is 5 turns away, and London is a good capital for production and commerce, let's start with that, then engineering, guilds and the shortest path to rifling. A protective REDCOAT doesn't fear the grens.
We can put Astro after guilds, but surely our WE will have a bad time vs. pikemen.
Remember this: probably all the other teams will face a situation like this, and i can bet we, with our slow conquest (see the graphs), are better prepared to afford this situation.
I propose to relent our play pace, to see how the other teams will go after a certain point.
What let me puzzled is how a prince AI can be so advanced.
So, better a nice debate to define a long term strategy before begin next TS.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
The AI, I suspect, hasn't been warring, and trades freely, as well as the tech hole we were in for a while - that's why they have an advantage. Anyway, the grand question remains: Conquest or Dom?
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Thanks for your replies, Sweeta, finally i know why.
I think it's too soon to decide for dom or conq.
Surely in both options we'll need a coastal city close to our shores as a foothold.
And surely we can't wait rifling to start actively warring: WE are enough for knights and even for cavalry, just mix some axe for the pikes and we can be on business.
At least we can research CS before Astro, we'll have a good benefit by switching to bureau.
But the game will be won with Rifles, sure like hell.
I think it's too soon to decide for dom or conq.
Surely in both options we'll need a coastal city close to our shores as a foothold.
And surely we can't wait rifling to start actively warring: WE are enough for knights and even for cavalry, just mix some axe for the pikes and we can be on business.
At least we can research CS before Astro, we'll have a good benefit by switching to bureau.
But the game will be won with Rifles, sure like hell.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
You're probably right about rifles... at least for us. I'm always amazed at what the "laurel" teams come up with. Do they spend their whole life studying Civ? 
As for the future conquest (not the win type), iirc Cyrus is the only one well up on us power-wise. So do we take him out first, or last? Instead of axes we could use a mix of long and crossbows?
IF we want to start the invasion before rifles, perhaps we should finish astro first? 1. We can maintain the hard won naval supremacy.
2. We can gain a foothold with jumbo, cat, and bow while teching up. Remember each unit will start with 3 promotions or so!!
As for the future conquest (not the win type), iirc Cyrus is the only one well up on us power-wise. So do we take him out first, or last? Instead of axes we could use a mix of long and crossbows?
IF we want to start the invasion before rifles, perhaps we should finish astro first? 1. We can maintain the hard won naval supremacy.
2. We can gain a foothold with jumbo, cat, and bow while teching up. Remember each unit will start with 3 promotions or so!!
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Yes, xbows are even better than axes to protect our dumbos from pikes, and also from macemen and bersekers. Promoted with drill 3 they are almost unbeatable by any melee unit remember, a unit with drill 3 or 4 is powerful, except against mounted units.
Remember that we're only 5 turns away from maces, too.
CS, then Astro can be OK?
Our first taget must be the closest city, then we'll decide.
Remember that we're only 5 turns away from maces, too.
CS, then Astro can be OK?
Our first taget must be the closest city, then we'll decide.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
Hey guys, I'm sick and don't feel that I will play well if I do. I think we should press the attack with a buttload of cats, and our jumbos. Xbows are good, too.
If somebody wants to swap me, that's fine with me.
If somebody wants to swap me, that's fine with me.
Okay, a few thoughts:
1) We should forget about lightbulbing Theology with the GP. Nidaros should be one of our first targets, and it is the Buddhist holy city with no shrine. Buddhism encompasses 21% of the globe, so that will be a nice boost to our economy. Theology is only 4 turns of research.
2) On the domination/conquest debate: no opinion at the moment, though I noticed that our domination limit was 254/780 tiles. Taking Saxon probably increased that to 263, and settling the double-gold will bring it to 269. I count 241 unused tiles on our continent, and another 86 or so in unclaimed islands (including Hanni's last island), much of which is useless. Claiming ALL of that would take us to 590/780, meaning we'd have to take roughly 190 tiles from other islands and from our enemies on the other continent (assuming we could grab it all with whipped Settlers). That's a daunting task, but then, so is wiping everyone out.
3) Have I mentioned that I love that we have a Commando elephant?
4) Our forces for our main offensives should be a mix of dumbos, maces, xbows, pikemen, and siege (lots of siege). We can transition to rifles for our UU in time, but those units should do quite well against longbows, particularly with our XP plan. Our dumbos are still our greatest asset, as we're going to be facing knights in counterattack stacks. Our dumbos will rip those knights to shreds, and can handle just about everything else if it's softened up with trebuchets.
5) In our next turn we will get a great person in London, probably a scientist. If we use it for a lightbulb, I'm pretty sure the priority is Astronomy (if we swapped research elsewhere for the moment, I don't think it would be that many wasted beakers, either). If we research Astronomy first, I don't know what it would go to next, Civil Service? There is some chance we get a prophet or engineer, as well.
Nice turnset Sweet. Keep it going.
1) We should forget about lightbulbing Theology with the GP. Nidaros should be one of our first targets, and it is the Buddhist holy city with no shrine. Buddhism encompasses 21% of the globe, so that will be a nice boost to our economy. Theology is only 4 turns of research.
2) On the domination/conquest debate: no opinion at the moment, though I noticed that our domination limit was 254/780 tiles. Taking Saxon probably increased that to 263, and settling the double-gold will bring it to 269. I count 241 unused tiles on our continent, and another 86 or so in unclaimed islands (including Hanni's last island), much of which is useless. Claiming ALL of that would take us to 590/780, meaning we'd have to take roughly 190 tiles from other islands and from our enemies on the other continent (assuming we could grab it all with whipped Settlers). That's a daunting task, but then, so is wiping everyone out.
3) Have I mentioned that I love that we have a Commando elephant?
4) Our forces for our main offensives should be a mix of dumbos, maces, xbows, pikemen, and siege (lots of siege). We can transition to rifles for our UU in time, but those units should do quite well against longbows, particularly with our XP plan. Our dumbos are still our greatest asset, as we're going to be facing knights in counterattack stacks. Our dumbos will rip those knights to shreds, and can handle just about everything else if it's softened up with trebuchets.
5) In our next turn we will get a great person in London, probably a scientist. If we use it for a lightbulb, I'm pretty sure the priority is Astronomy (if we swapped research elsewhere for the moment, I don't think it would be that many wasted beakers, either). If we research Astronomy first, I don't know what it would go to next, Civil Service? There is some chance we get a prophet or engineer, as well.
Nice turnset Sweet. Keep it going.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
hmm, hum
If we pop a GS he will probably LB a good portion of astro, if we don't know CS. Sure that if we have CS he will go for paper. But he can also go for Philo... never won a war with philosophy.
Yes, you mentioned, the commando is mine, i like to have at least one unit with it: it's devastating, especially if it's a cavalry.
We don't need pikes, with dumbos.
190 tiles are roughly 10 cities (21*10-some coast or overlap)
we can be ready with the necessary settlers, spam them after we conquered the last needed city, revolt to caste, run an artist, win the game, win a laurel, wn the US elections and a lot of nice things .
If Merum is sick Greatbeyond can swap, or me if he dpen't gives sign.
But we can also wait, i'd like to see the other teams progresses.
If we pop a GS he will probably LB a good portion of astro, if we don't know CS. Sure that if we have CS he will go for paper. But he can also go for Philo... never won a war with philosophy.
Yes, you mentioned, the commando is mine, i like to have at least one unit with it: it's devastating, especially if it's a cavalry.
We don't need pikes, with dumbos.
190 tiles are roughly 10 cities (21*10-some coast or overlap)
we can be ready with the necessary settlers, spam them after we conquered the last needed city, revolt to caste, run an artist, win the game, win a laurel, wn the US elections and a lot of nice things
.If Merum is sick Greatbeyond can swap, or me if he dpen't gives sign.
But we can also wait, i'd like to see the other teams progresses.
greatbeyond
King
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 989
I have no problem swapping with Merum, if we want to surge ahead. I am also content to think this out a little. Is there anything to be gained by further discussion? I'll check in about 12-14 hours and see what the consensus is.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Get better soon, Merum. 
We should probably think about an attack plan while we're stopped (if only briefly). How many stacks, and what (how many) should comprise a stack to make quick work of conquest? What conquest route should we take? Which cities are to be kept? Should we make a scout/explorer to pop the hut and the make into an untouchable GG medic?
I can't answer these questions yet.. I'll have to look at the save, again.
Good idea about the GP, did you check if the shrine exists already? Maybe turn research to 0% for a turn to check out the GMan? Can someone rename the commando dumbo "Blubmuz", pls?
We should probably think about an attack plan while we're stopped (if only briefly). How many stacks, and what (how many) should comprise a stack to make quick work of conquest? What conquest route should we take? Which cities are to be kept? Should we make a scout/explorer to pop the hut and the make into an untouchable GG medic?
I can't answer these questions yet.. I'll have to look at the save, again.
Good idea about the GP, did you check if the shrine exists already? Maybe turn research to 0% for a turn to check out the GMan? Can someone rename the commando dumbo "Blubmuz", pls?
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
Thanks GB and SA. I've got a sinus infection that makes me feel like my face is going to explode.
I've also got to fly to Austin early Wednesday for an interview which will involve some of those wonderful google-type interview problems to solve, so I may need another swap yet to rest and prepare, based on when GB plays his turnset. I'll keep you posted.
I've also got to fly to Austin early Wednesday for an interview which will involve some of those wonderful google-type interview problems to solve, so I may need another swap yet to rest and prepare, based on when GB plays his turnset. I'll keep you posted.
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