SGOTM 06 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[TheArchduke]

I am definetly in favour of #2, rush and keep the best sites (probably capitals). Apart from our awesome capital there is not much great land around London.

 

[sunrise089]

Swiss - I'm not sure there are really that many distinct options. I think #'s 1 and 3 are essentially the same, as are 2 and 4. Even then, I'm sure some degree of combining constant pressure on an AI and buildup of our empire will be required. Option 5 is the most intriguing though - that actually would have a real affect on things.

 

[LKendter]

6. Suppress to AIs as much as possible. We aren't stuck with RB epic rules of no attack before 1000 BC. If possible, we want to at least cripple as many AIs as possible. If that succeeds, then an early win is possible.
If we aren't aggressive, then we are going to have the AIs jump ahead of us in tech. At that point an early win is impossible.


I won't agree to pure military pumps, but we do want to limit the wonders. I never finished Epic14, but even with very limited wonders I was struggling. I wouldn't be upset if we never build a wonder.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Errrm...those are ideas to try out in the practice games then we try to knit the better threads together for the real thing; I think it's important that we try to follow different paths in the test games (even if doomed to failure).

Ooooh, I didn't check which victory conditions are enabled...but I guess we're going for Conquest.

 

[ruff_hi]

I offer my services for coming up with the ideal pillage party - someone give me a game to start from (with WB enabled) and I will try different unit mixes.

 

[Compromise]

I finally got a chance to briefly (about two minutes) look at the latest save.

It's turn 45 and according to the in-game log, no religion has been founded yet. That might affect thoughts of an Oracle slingshot since it seems likely that no AI has a head start down the tech route to Priesthood yet.

I think Swiss' list is a good start. And he's right, we want to try different high-level strategies as well as investigate different tactics. This is the time to do some brainstorming...the more ideas the better.

Edit: Xposted with Ruff. I hope we can get a game to you soon. Even if not, just whip up a Continents or Pangea Prince map with all the AIs we already know and just start experimenting.

Also, I checked in-game and it looks like all victory types are on the table. I can't imagine anything being faster than Conquest.

 

[LKendter]

Also, I checked in-game and it looks like all victory types are on the table. I can't imagine anything being faster than Conquest.

I think the only remote possibility would be domination. There is a possibility we have one or two civs separated by too much water needing ocean going ships to get there.

 

[Compromise]

True. But even so, if there are only a couple civs left, we can probably just spam cities with Caste Artists and grow to domination quickly after wiping out the other AIs. That's essentially conquest with a surprise ending.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I tried some test maps this morning and the attached is about the best fit to our island (I gave up on Ragnarland). The geography is tilted 180 degrees (Alex to North) but the basic map feels reasonable. Ragnar should be replaced by Hannibal and Rameses by Mansa.

Some resource changes are needed: we have no Copper, Alex should be moved South a bit, etc. I'll try to put work in tonight on it, but can't guarantee anything.

 

[Compromise]

Here's what we know of Athens right now (Note that it's on a hill, which will make it a bit more difficult to wrest from Alexander, but then easier to retain later):




Also, I've made some major edits to posts 2 and 3. Let me know if you have ideas for making them more informative or useful to us. I want to have a go-to place for both our team and for anyone interested in skimming the thread to see what we've done.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

OK here's my final effort at map-making. Decided to move Hannibal onto a promotory as he was a bit close (still is prolly) and gave his capital horses. Improved Alex's capital to make it more like the one we know. I think we should run two practice scenarios: one giving Alex copper and the other Iron in his BFC to see how we get on with our rushes.

 

[ruff_hi]

Options: I like seeing the tile grid (Ctrl-T) and the resources (Ctrl-R) both in-game and in screenshots. The Hall of Fame mod has some useful features. Some that I like are the "tile grid is on by default", the turn count as the clock text, and the alerts that let you know when cities are growing, expanding, etc. I'd also suggest turning on "Enemy moves", but later that might get oppressive. [Anyone else have suggestions for option settings?]

I've had a fair amount of experience with the HOF mod mainly because I lifted a lot of the code for my Ruffmod. I'll review what is currently there and post a summary of how to use it, what is useful and when.

Edit: adding HOF info this evening - will be here. Not putting in detailed description of items. Interested parties can find info in this document (http://www.freewebs.com/ruff_hi/BtS Unaltered Gameplay Mod Approval Process.pdf) ... obviously this is a BUG document about BtS but it covers nearly all of the HOF features (and whole lot more). The information below is off the top of my head and could be wrong

The HOF settings can be changed via the option screen, either in-game or from the advanced menu. There are three screens ...

This screen enables / disables the ...

• autologger (the settings shown above will automatically start the logger and place the log file (game name.txt) into the autolog directory
• alert system that us useful to watch unhappiness

This screen enables / disables the ...

• exotic foreign advisor
• modified domestic advisor
• unit icons (shows unit orders and units due promotion)

This screen enables / disables the ...

• map finder (we will not be using this feature for the SGOTM)
• various other items including the REMINDER - very useful for whipping cities after whip unhappy wears off
• graphic options - you will have to play with the slider to see if you like this feature - i haven't really used it much

 

[Compromise]

Thanks ruff; I'll add your comments to our intro page after you post them.

Also, I noticed that Swiss' save didn't include a starting warrior and didn't use the HoF mod. So, I added those things, but didn't change anything else. That save is attached to this post.

I'd still like to generate my own (different) test map, but it may be a while. Swiss' is the best we have right now.

 

[LKendter]

There hasn't been any activity in over 2 days. Are we waiting until after the holidays at this point?

 

[Compromise]

I think we are waiting. I'm still (slowly) working on getting another practice map up to run practice scenarios on. I'm hoping that at least a couple of us are running some practice turns on Swiss' map. (In fact, could someone post a save where the game has been run up to the present time in our actual game?)

I anticipate being back in the thick of everything starting around Jan 2. But please feel free to post ideas, insights, and discoveries here as you find them. I'll be doing a summary of what's recommended when we re-commence.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

When I return to Civ-land, I plan to run a couple of rushes on Greece: one where Alex has Iron, and another where he has Copper. The second is highly likely to fail, obviously, but it should be instructive nonetheless.

 

[Compromise]

Merry Christmas, team!

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I had a quick go at rushing Alex last night. Some thoughts:

- If you try my save then you'll need to use WB to change the tile 1N of Athens into a regular grass tile (my attempt to WB out the FP ended up pasting grass on top of the FP for a 5-food yield).

- Decided to go with a 1 city rush. On reflection I don't think this is optimal.

- I used WB a lot to take out AI warriors and replace them with scouts, as per our game. I ignored huts. Got a woody 2 warrior from scout killing.

- Had to use WB to remove Bud & Hin from Al & Han. Al founded Judaism (which I let him keep).

- Took Sparta (to NE of London) in 1270 with a horde of 6 axes (versus 2 archers and 1 warrior).

- Athens was a different story: with 10 axes and a spear, I failed to defeat Al's 4 archers by going weakest attacker first. I replayed using elite units first and was just able to scrape in with the spear taking the city. Ouch!

- London was fully chopped to get the army, but not whipped much (see below).

- Tech-wise, I went for IW after the wheel, but I think Pottery would be better: London doesn't have so much food, so we need to get a Granary ASAP so we can whip when needed. Also, with Copper at the capital, I don't think we'll be so 'lucky' with Iron.

- I went for a quick dart at Mansa: his unpromoted Skirmishers are bastards! Lost five axes (some CG2) against 2 of them.

- No point in trying a rush against Alex if he has copper: a C1 Shock Axe in Athens will Chuck Norris our army!

- Merrry Christmas!

 

[TheArchduke]

So, the question is if a an early rush feasible against Hannibal? We would need more exploration data for this.

So, perhaps the wiser idea is to strangle them economically with an axe/spear combo..

 

[ruff_hi]

If you try my save then you'll need to use WB to change the tile 1N of Athens into a regular grass tile (my attempt to WB out the FP ended up pasting grass on top of the FP for a 5-food yield).

WB is tricky. To delete the FP, select the tile edit tool, select FP on the list of things to edit and RIGHT click on the tile. Right-click is the general purpose delete key.

Looks like a skirmish party is the way to go ... will test the combinations.