SGOTM 06 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[Swiss Pauli]

I think we can try some different practice openings. I'd like to get the first two turnsets--which I see as (1) get AH and (2) get Bronzeworking--run before Christmas. That way, we have a good idea of the layout of the land and our early resources to set up decent practice games that we can run over the holiday break as each of us find time.

I'm not sure this would be allowed as practice games should only be started based on info available on turn zero (I think).

 

[Compromise]

I'm not sure this would be allowed as practice games should only be started based on info available on turn zero (I think).

Do you mean not allowed as in "this violates SGOTM rules" or not allowed as in "we don't know this before we start, so our practice game would be invalid"? I don't think there's a rule about the former, and want to be clear what I mean by "practice games" with the following:

I guess I was thinking that before the first couple turnsets, we could run some quick tests to see what a good opening strategy would be. This would answer questions like: timing of techs, what tiles get worked, whether the worker gets bored or has plenty to do, whether AI warriors will pillage our mine, etc.

After that, we'd run the first couple turnsets.

After that, we'd know where Horses and Copper are, then we could do actual test games where we have whatever resources we actually do have. (This would fill everyone's Christmas vacation !) That way, we're not planning an axe-based defense when we only have access to Horses.

Edit: I agree with Ruff...turtling won't be our approach to AW. I'm hoping some practice games, and some research on existing SGs or RB events, will help us know how to proceed.

 

[Kodii]

FYI: We have six AI opponents in this game.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Do you mean not allowed as in "this violates SGOTM rules" or not allowed as in "we don't know this before we start, so our practice game would be invalid"?

It's the former, although it's not spelled out explicitly. Murky Waters are pretty thorough and from reading their SGOTM5 thread, the only test games they ran were based on their T0 info (though they ran some WB tests for things like gifting Settlers to barbs, etc). I think you should get this clarified by AanH. If permitted, it's certainly the way to go.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Metagaming:

- Its Prince level, so it's possible for there to be another AI nearby without the chance of a bad luck loss.

- Astro wasn't needed for SGOTM5, so will it be needed in this game?

- We don't want to meet AIs too soon.

- Verify tech trading situation (on/off).

Test Game Strategies

- We should think about these once the start file is available, but a Feudalism sling with Churchill is always appealing

 

[Compromise]

Our starting save is now available. I can open it.

I'll ask about the practice games in the Maintenance Thread.

 

[TheArchduke]

Start:
The question indeed is if we want to play it safe by building a 2nd warrior, or tempted by the gold build a worker and keep our initial warrior close at hand.

On the starting position. I am very, very tempted to establish our city on a hill. In BTS the AI does not suicide run against fortified cities. But with warlords, this could very well be.

One tile SE there is a hill with another gold in the BFC and the cows in it as well.

Metagaming:

In my opinion we can only discuss this after our first 30-40 turns when we establish if we are isloated or not and how near the AI is. If we got some friends nearby, we should definetly choke them early on.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Warlords AI doesn't suicide against hill cities. I'll check the save loads OK sometime at the weekend.

 

[ruff_hi]

well this sucks ... my warlords install will not start the BtS version. I've got a few old vanilla PBEM games going so I've had to maintain a pre-BtS version of vanilla. The pre-BtS version of warlords starts but it will not open the save (no surprise there).

I've been thinking of doing a wipe and reinstall of civ4 but I am nervous of losing access to my PBEM games ... are there any guides to the correct order of how to do these things out there?

The other option is that I uninstall warlords (and only warlords) and reinstall it - is that an option?

 

[AlanH]

The other option is that I uninstall warlords (and only warlords) and reinstall it - is that an option?

Unfortunately, Warlords software sum-checks both the DLLs, even though neither will be used when running the HoF Mod!

The "correct" way to update your Civ4+Warlords to run this game is to swap both vanilla and Warlords DLL files. If you do that, and ensure that you have the HOF-2.13.002 Mod installed, you should be able to open this game. To revert in order to play your older vanilla PBEM games, all you need to do is to reverse the vanilla DLL swap.

 

[Compromise]

I hope you can work out the DLLs Ruff. If you need screenshots, let me know. Though I know nothing replaces the ability to look at the game on one's own.

I'd like to move the initial warrior to uncover a few more tiles before we decide whether or not to settle in place.

NW and N won't reveal new tiles to us. SW seems superior to W since both are hills, but SW will reveal more new tiles. S won't reveal non-forest/jungle tiles
My favorite is SW since there's a possibility it will reveal tiles that might have a food bonus worth moving toward. E seems preferable to NE or SE.

Given that, it seems like the decision is between E and SW. I prefer SW because it'll reveal more tiles and has the highest possibility of revealing more food tiles. 1SW of the settler may even be coast.

Doing a little fog gazing, I think there's water W of the NW gold hill and it looks like the western river dumps into the sea SW of us. We might be on the SW part of a peninsula.

Any opposition to moving the starting warrior 1SW and then posting a screenshot?

 

[sunrise089]

I support the aggressive play of worker first. I also think all of our other cities should go on a hill. If we play this like a multiplayer game (which it sort of is with the AW), hill cities are crucial, but only where you expect an attack.

EDIT: Definitely do the SW warrior move.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Save loads OK. Maybe the water feature to the SW is a lake, but that's definitely shoreline to the west of the gold. The move SW seems to be best, as there's jungle to the east which doesn't make it a very attractive place to settle, even if a special is revealed.

 

[Compromise]

Since I can't imagine a compelling reason to move other than SW, I'm going to take the responses so far as a quorum. Here's what the warrior reveals to the SW:



We are one tile away from the ocean, but with no specials, I think we should probably still settle in place.

 

[LKendter]

With this being AW, the big question is do we want to be on a hill. We can move the settler 1 SE. We still get a gold tile. We are still fresh water. We lose one banana tile.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Settle in place gets my vote: if the AI is coming at the capital with any sort of decent force we're going to be way off the pace. We have good enough food here with cows, banana-farm, and cottage-banana. I've been playing lots of BtS, so it'll be good to run some test games with Warlords (e.g. Calendar obsoleting our über-monuments).

 

[Compromise]

I'm hoping that our practice games will help us determine how the AI reacts to cities on hills vs plains. But I agree with Swiss for the capital: If that's in the fray, a hill will only delay the inevitable.

What are our tech plans? I think AH is the first priority, but am undecided about Agri vs. Hunting as the prereq. I lean Agri since we can farm the banana for an early +2F tile. Thoughts?

Also, I'll go worker first and keep the warrior nearby.

 

[Kodii]

I'm curious to know why the game suggests founding on gold

I will confirm whether or not I can open the game when I have access to my regular CIV computer.

 

[Compromise]

I bet there's some seafood over there. Probably south too given the blue circle SW if the warrior's new position. I'm sure we can come up with a better settling location that the AI algorithm!

 

[Kodii]

The save works for me.

I think we'd be best off to settle in place. I'll see if I can whip up some sort of test game to see whether or not a Warlord AI will go for a hill city.