SGOTM 06 - Trash Team
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Trash Team!
remconius
Deity
Happy New Year! 
Hope everybody is recovering well from last night's party! 
Good stuff Pigswill. How did it feel to be back in the game?
Checked the save, things seem to be in order. A few things:
-There are some small holes in our defensive perimeter. Two archers (south near iron, and east next to other archer) should close the holes.
-For the rest we build more longbows and hit Thebes (raze) with 4-5 Longbows and run onto Alex's other cities.
-Tech onto CoL, then mathematics, calendar, Civil Service...
-I would like to see the workboat go back up North to check out islands to the east.
Roster
-Remconius (on deck)
-chopster
-stuge
-cabert
-patagonia
-pigswill (just played)
-Cam_H (UP)
I could probably slot in a turnset before Saturday if Cam doesnt mind. Things are quite obvious for the coming turns anyway. Who knows Cam might be able to start the assault.
Hope everybody is recovering well from last night's party! Good stuff Pigswill. How did it feel to be back in the game?
Checked the save, things seem to be in order. A few things:
-There are some small holes in our defensive perimeter. Two archers (south near iron, and east next to other archer) should close the holes.
-For the rest we build more longbows and hit Thebes (raze) with 4-5 Longbows and run onto Alex's other cities.
-Tech onto CoL, then mathematics, calendar, Civil Service...
-I would like to see the workboat go back up North to check out islands to the east.
Roster
-Remconius (on deck)
-chopster
-stuge
-cabert
-patagonia
-pigswill (just played)
-Cam_H (UP)
I could probably slot in a turnset before Saturday if Cam doesnt mind. Things are quite obvious for the coming turns anyway. Who knows Cam might be able to start the assault.
remconius
Deity
One thing that is important to decide. Are we going for conquest or domination. Our current island seems to be ~450 tiles, meaning we need another ~320 tiles. Islands to the east suggest we can sail further but can we reach all or find another 320 tiles.
stuge
Emperor
Let's just start cracking heads and keep only those cities, which stand out in terms of commerce/production. We can start thinking about the victory conditions when we have enough intel to do so.
Happy year 2008 everybody!
Happy year 2008 everybody!
pigswill
fly (one day)
Major discovery: Longbows are pretty naff at capturing cities, more of this later.
A non-sequential report.
Research: switched to CoL straightaway (24T), coming down slowly.
London gave away the cows, stagnated and built a couple of longbows.
York got the cows, grew to pop 4 while finishing archer and is still building a worker. No improvements (working grass hill). Archer went to Nottingham to protect the workers.
Nottingham got a monument and a chariot chopped out and is building a barracks, growing slowly and working horses while waiting for a border pop. Chariot is near Nottingham on barb patrol. Workers finished the horses, did a couple of chops and built roads in anticipation of border pop.
Alex has a trireme off our coast.
Our exploring workboat started looking at the islands, met a carthaginian trireme, dodged it somehow and is now exploring down south (exploring islands would have been suicide).
But how's the war? Not so good. Alex got another archer in Thebes. A greek chariot and warrior turned up near a fortified archer, chariot promptly wiped out the archer and our perimeter was breached:
Battle of the Theban cows followed. Chariot attacked our archer and died, warrior killed our archer and is running somewhere down south. Got a longbow looking for him.
Then there was the seige of Thebes:
Two LBs and an archer against 2 archers and a warrior (no culture defence).
Drill3 LB killed CG1archer at 77% odds (down to 0.8str).
Geurilla LB attacked unpromoted archer at 74% odds and died!
Archer vs warrior 32% odds, didn't bother and left him to protect our wounded LB. Wounded LB got Drill4 next turn but odds were still naff so retreated.
Thoughts
We're probably better off attacking cities with CR2 axes and stacking LBs as stack and city defenders.
We won't be exploring the eastern islands any time soon.
A non-sequential report.
Research: switched to CoL straightaway (24T), coming down slowly.
London gave away the cows, stagnated and built a couple of longbows.
York got the cows, grew to pop 4 while finishing archer and is still building a worker. No improvements (working grass hill). Archer went to Nottingham to protect the workers.
Nottingham got a monument and a chariot chopped out and is building a barracks, growing slowly and working horses while waiting for a border pop. Chariot is near Nottingham on barb patrol. Workers finished the horses, did a couple of chops and built roads in anticipation of border pop.
Alex has a trireme off our coast.
Our exploring workboat started looking at the islands, met a carthaginian trireme, dodged it somehow and is now exploring down south (exploring islands would have been suicide).
But how's the war? Not so good. Alex got another archer in Thebes. A greek chariot and warrior turned up near a fortified archer, chariot promptly wiped out the archer and our perimeter was breached:
Battle of the Theban cows followed. Chariot attacked our archer and died, warrior killed our archer and is running somewhere down south. Got a longbow looking for him.
Then there was the seige of Thebes:
Two LBs and an archer against 2 archers and a warrior (no culture defence).
Drill3 LB killed CG1archer at 77% odds (down to 0.8str).
Geurilla LB attacked unpromoted archer at 74% odds and died!
Archer vs warrior 32% odds, didn't bother and left him to protect our wounded LB. Wounded LB got Drill4 next turn but odds were still naff so retreated.
Thoughts
We're probably better off attacking cities with CR2 axes and stacking LBs as stack and city defenders.
We won't be exploring the eastern islands any time soon.
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
Promoting up the cover/combat line gives longbows the best odds attacking cities.
pigswill
fly (one day)
A CR2 Axe is going to compare favourably to a combat2/drill1 LB and costs 15 hammers less.
remconius
Deity
But when a CR2 Axe and a combat I/cover longbow go up against an archer the Longbow has better odds.
When a CR2 axe and Combat I/shock longbow go against an Axeman the longbow wins again.
Another advantage is that it is very hard to counterstrike against a longbow with axes or archers.
Part of the problem is trying to take on 3 units with 3 units. At 75% odds, you'd lose 1 out of 4 and you're bound to come short. Had it worked it would have been a great advantage, but the chance of success was small.
When a CR2 axe and Combat I/shock longbow go against an Axeman the longbow wins again.
Another advantage is that it is very hard to counterstrike against a longbow with axes or archers.
Part of the problem is trying to take on 3 units with 3 units. At 75% odds, you'd lose 1 out of 4 and you're bound to come short. Had it worked it would have been a great advantage, but the chance of success was small.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Its true that 3 vs 3 needs a chunk of luck, sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't.
However 3 CR2 axes cost 105 hammers; 2 LBs cost 100 hammers; if you give them specialist promotions they'll have better individual odds but still will have less overall chance of success than the three axes.
However 3 CR2 axes cost 105 hammers; 2 LBs cost 100 hammers; if you give them specialist promotions they'll have better individual odds but still will have less overall chance of success than the three axes.
Welcome to the new year! I'm back with access to civ and the internet (and work unfortunately).
Chariots seem like a reasonable idea to me, now that we have horses - a mixed chariot/LB stack might be an idea.
What are others thoughts on the attack strategy?
Chariots seem like a reasonable idea to me, now that we have horses - a mixed chariot/LB stack might be an idea.
What are others thoughts on the attack strategy?
Chopster,
Welcome back - hope you had a good break.
I empathise with Pigswill's point, but I'd like to press on with a focus on Longbows - fewer suicide units, few counters, better longevity.
If we develop a big SoD of Longbows, then I agree that mixing in a Shock Axe and a Combat Spear or two would be good (in addition to the Medic and Sentry Chariots), but I'd like to see the SoD built up first with the view that it's the Longbows doing the attacking.
My fear is that Athens will be on a hill with 60% cultural defence and something like five fortified Archers (a couple with CG promotions) - we're going to need a bucket of Longbows for that.
Welcome back - hope you had a good break.
I empathise with Pigswill's point, but I'd like to press on with a focus on Longbows - fewer suicide units, few counters, better longevity.
If we develop a big SoD of Longbows, then I agree that mixing in a Shock Axe and a Combat Spear or two would be good (in addition to the Medic and Sentry Chariots), but I'd like to see the SoD built up first with the view that it's the Longbows doing the attacking.
My fear is that Athens will be on a hill with 60% cultural defence and something like five fortified Archers (a couple with CG promotions) - we're going to need a bucket of Longbows for that.
It was my impression that we're doing this because we're Protective and that there's no clear Classical Age counter to Longbows.
If it's better to throw Chariots or Axes into the mix - then great, let's do it, but if the enemy has mixed units as city garrisons, then we'd be in trouble.
If it's better to throw Chariots or Axes into the mix - then great, let's do it, but if the enemy has mixed units as city garrisons, then we'd be in trouble.
pigswill
fly (one day)
AFAIK chariots don't get flank attacks on axes so with a stack of 2LBs/3Axes the LBs would defend against the chariots.
I agree that there is no early counter to longbows which makes them very good units, except when it comes to attacking cities.
I agree that there is no early counter to longbows which makes them very good units, except when it comes to attacking cities.
remconius
Deity
I also like the idea of a Longbow Stack's of Doom. Our protective nature gives them extra power. Maybe they are not the best attackers, but cover and shock promotions really make them powerful enough (stronger than an Axe CR2 only a little less versatile). Sure we can throw in a few axes, but the focus should be on an unstoppable stack of LBs, IMO.
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
If we're going to start mixing units, I'd rather we got iron online and some CR2 swords. They pwn axes at taking cities and we should be able to get some combat+cover promoted for good measure.
Chariots may be cheap units, but with combat odds of about 2% you're not guaranteed to do any damage to the top defenders so they can represent a false economy in that respect.
Chariots may be cheap units, but with combat odds of about 2% you're not guaranteed to do any damage to the top defenders so they can represent a false economy in that respect.
Just one point of clarification ... I am supposed to raze Thebes when I capture it, aren't I? It's really badly placed from what we can see, missing most 'good' resources, and I wouldn't bother with it, however I'd rather get a couple of 'yeas' or 'neys'.
pigswill
fly (one day)
I'd reckon we raze Thebes. There's probably a decent spot west of it that captures gold, iron and cows iirc.
Patagonia has a good point re CR swords (once we have iron).
Patagonia has a good point re CR swords (once we have iron).
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