I've no insight into this particular game situation, but I almost always find that chopping forests outside the cross is good use of workers at some point.
SGOTM 06 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I've no insight into this particular game situation, but I almost always find that chopping forests outside the cross is good use of workers at some point.
Frederiksberg
Deity
I think we should prepare for the capture of Sparta as soon as the survivors from the battle of Carthage have healed. That way we avoid being too late. It's also important that we investigate the garrison at Sparta in order to judge how soon it can be taken.
Yes, the sooner the better to lessen the effect in Athens.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
One warning about keeping the city of Sparta around for too long, comes from part 1 of CP's turnset.
We don't want them around too long, shouldn't be any chance of them getting any better defenders i.e. longbows (which require Feudalism).
We don't want them around too long, shouldn't be any chance of them getting any better defenders i.e. longbows (which require Feudalism).
ShannonCT
Deity
Not that it affects JT's turnset, but what do you all think of skipping Monotheism?
If we use our free Confucian missionary in Ivoryville, we can chop a monastary there for exactly 2 forests and produce the 2 or 3 missionaries there for our GS cities. We were only planning to stay in Organized Religion for a few turns, so we wouldn't be getting much production benefit from it. By skipping it, we save one turn of revolt (and all the associated food, hammers, and beakers from that turn) and the beakers that we would have poured into Monotheism. The one revolt turn we save would give us the last GS one turn sooner, and Machinery would come 2-3 turns earlier. Earlier Machinery means earlier Optics, and would give us a chance to send out some exploring caravels (upgraded from triremes) ahead of our troop-laden galleons. The cost is the extra worker turns for chopping the forests or whatever else we would have built with those two forests.
If we use our free Confucian missionary in Ivoryville, we can chop a monastary there for exactly 2 forests and produce the 2 or 3 missionaries there for our GS cities. We were only planning to stay in Organized Religion for a few turns, so we wouldn't be getting much production benefit from it. By skipping it, we save one turn of revolt (and all the associated food, hammers, and beakers from that turn) and the beakers that we would have poured into Monotheism. The one revolt turn we save would give us the last GS one turn sooner, and Machinery would come 2-3 turns earlier. Earlier Machinery means earlier Optics, and would give us a chance to send out some exploring caravels (upgraded from triremes) ahead of our troop-laden galleons. The cost is the extra worker turns for chopping the forests or whatever else we would have built with those two forests.
To build Monastaries, don't we need Meditation? I suppose as we want Philosophy, we need it anyway.
I think the idea to save revolting is a good one.
I think the idea to save revolting is a good one.
ShannonCT
Deity
That's right. Meditation is required, but we need it anyway, and it only takes 1-2 turns. Just start researching it where we would have started Monotheism (after CoL and Hunting), and we come out ahead.
Frederiksberg
Deity
It's an interesting idea. I had planned something like this orignally but gave it up because of the cost in hammers (90 for the Monastery and 3x60 for the missionaries). Another issue is if we can produce the Missionaries fast enough. They must be available and have moved to the target city before we bulb Philo. Do we have enough foretst to chop? And do we have enough workers to do all this chopping. There must be free workers turns to improve our resources. Right now my main concern with this approach would be the worker turns used for chopping. I was desperately short of workers during the test game I played. And we are, of course, using 150 extra hammers.
With a little luck Carthage will become the Conf holy city and that will make things easier. It happened in my test game and I read somewhere that the largest city (not counting the capital) without a religion is most likely to become the holy city.
Ivoryville seems to be the best choice. It has 9 forests, so four will remain after we "chop for Gold".
Curious why the missionaries must in their target cities before we can bulb Philosophy?
Should I know this answer?? 
Philo will also give us Taoism, a second religion.
In all my test games, Ivoryville became the Confucian Holy City. I think it was because Carthage was in resistance at the time?
Could that be?
ShannonCT
Deity
There is a good chance that either Athens, Timbuktu, Carthage, or Ivoryville will become the Holy City, in which case Ivoryville would only need to produce 2 missionaries. And as long as we have Carthage converted by the time we change to Pacifism, the GSs wont be delayed. If Athens gets its missionary a couple turns late, it wont affect its GS because it has to keep its GP points in check anyway while Carthage and Timbuktu get GS number 2 and 3. Using Organized Religion instead can present a different problem: not having enough missionaries built by the time Philosophy is bulbed. A monastary can build a missionary any time.
If we go for the Organized Religion approach, we still need to produce 1-2 more missionaries quickly, and this will still probably involve chopping somewhere, though not as much chopping as with the monastary approach. We definitely need more workers.
The monastary approach wont work very well if Ironsite or York become the Holy City because they dont have enough forests to build a monastary quickly.
Here is how the Holy City is decided:
So it's mostly random with higher population cities being favored and the capital being effectively disqualified. Hopefully we get a bit of good luck this time and one of our GS cities becomes the holy one.
Curious why the missionaries must in their target cities before we can bulb Philosophy?
They don't. They do have to be there for Pacifism to work in that city. But if we order the conversions 1) Carthage, 2) Timbuktu, 3) Athens, it wont matter if Athens doesn't have its missionary when we switch to Pacifism. Carthage is the bottleneck.
I think Pacifism only works for cities with our national religion, which will be Confucianism.
In all my test games, Ivoryville became the Confucian Holy City. I think it was because Carthage was in resistance at the time?
I've never seen a city in resistance become a Holy City. I'm pretty sure its impossible. If Fred got Carthage as a Holy City in a test game, it must have been that he captured it quick enough for it to come out of resistance before CoL was done. This is another good reason to capture Carthage quickly. If we can draw out a settler party from Carhage soon, we might be able to take it before all of our units get there.
Jimmy Thunder
King
Hi guys, sorry I haven't had much time to post and play.
I finished my turnset just now and I'll give you the brief run-down (proper writeup to follow sometime this weekend).
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/Xteam_SG006_BC0355_01.CivWarlordsSave
It was a terribly nervous time playing these turns! The main obstacles were barb attack and being delayed with taking Carthage waiting for some of the archers to leave, it had 4 archers (and I was taking a conservative approach).
Everything went to plan (but we will be a few turns delayed on our best case practice game).
Built Stonehenge
Chopped gold in Ivoryville
Pre-chopped all forests in Athens
Got CoL and founded confucism in Timbuktu
Had a difficult time moving workers around with all the fog and not many units to protect them, but haven't lost any battles to the barbs since I put up the last save (phew).
Had military arrive at Carthage on time, but they stood there with 4 archers and I wasn't confident to go after them with 6 sword 2 axes (I was probably too conservative, but if we failed the attack our plan was down the toilet). They finally built a settler and went down to two archers, but 3 turns later when I was attacking they had built another 2 archers making it 8vs4 anyway! Well we won and only lost 2 swords due to good RNG fortune. Carthage was taken on the final turn, 355BC and was eliminated before the settler could find a spot.
I finished my turnset just now and I'll give you the brief run-down (proper writeup to follow sometime this weekend).
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/Xteam_SG006_BC0355_01.CivWarlordsSave
It was a terribly nervous time playing these turns! The main obstacles were barb attack and being delayed with taking Carthage waiting for some of the archers to leave, it had 4 archers (and I was taking a conservative approach).
Everything went to plan (but we will be a few turns delayed on our best case practice game).
Built Stonehenge
Chopped gold in Ivoryville
Pre-chopped all forests in Athens
Got CoL and founded confucism in Timbuktu
Had a difficult time moving workers around with all the fog and not many units to protect them, but haven't lost any battles to the barbs since I put up the last save (phew).
Had military arrive at Carthage on time, but they stood there with 4 archers and I wasn't confident to go after them with 6 sword 2 axes (I was probably too conservative, but if we failed the attack our plan was down the toilet). They finally built a settler and went down to two archers, but 3 turns later when I was attacking they had built another 2 archers making it 8vs4 anyway! Well we won and only lost 2 swords due to good RNG fortune. Carthage was taken on the final turn, 355BC and was eliminated before the settler could find a spot.
DJMGator13
Still breathing
Carthage is ours - that is good news. 
I'm finally up to date on my reading but I need to play around with the test games to check out the Golden Wall Chop.
I'm finally up to date on my reading but I need to play around with the test games to check out the Golden Wall Chop.
ShannonCT
Deity
Well done JT!
You accomplished all of our major goals. Stonehenge. Confucianism in Timbuktu. Carthage taken with minimal loss, and with a lighthouse to boot. Economy purring. There are bound to be small setbacks.Looks like the barbs have been terrorizing Timbuktu pretty relentlessly. Maybe we should upgrade one of those warriors to an axe and nip the problem in the bud. Tim needs to get that rice back online.
We just need to wait 2 turns for the borders to pop.
This was some good fortune. Saves us a missionary either way.
Our victorious armies should have the barbs in check shortly.
Markus5
Code Monkey
Is it OK for lurkers to ask questions?
ShannonCT
Deity
I'm not sure what the rules are about lurkers asking questions. I'm assuming that you have been lurking on other teams' threads as well. Discussing our game with us when you have knowledge of other teams' games might be frowned upon. I'll ask Alan.
If you have visited other team threads then you should not provide specific information to any team, either in the form of indications of their relative performance, or as suggested ways forward, or as questions about their plans. It is impossible for you, and impractical for me, to ensure that such inputs are not influenced by what you have learned from other threads.
Questions are just as capable of providing spoiler information as statements.
Questions are just as capable of providing spoiler information as statements.
Markus5
Code Monkey
I'm dedicated. I've only looked at this thread and the summary thread. My question was about a strategy or technique and not about the game itself. But, I'll ask that question in a more appropriate thread. For now, I'll just follow the game as it unfolds. No more posts. Sorry for the interruption.
If you are a dedicated lurker on Xteam's thread then I have no problem with you asking questions or joining in the discussions, as long as the team is OK with it, and I can add you as an "official lurker". As I said, the only problem would arise if you inadvertently share information gained from other threads.
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