SGOTM 07 - Chokonuts

[McArine]

I tried optimizing road to pyramids, I got them done in 2240 bc

Same tech order as Ozbenno.
Settle in place. Build Warrior, resource 2b 1h.
3800 Warrior done -> Worker. Border expand. resource 2b 1h 1g.
3760 Fishing is in. Worker -> Workboat, resource 3h.
3520 Workboat done -> Worker. resource 2b 1h 1g.
3480 WB on crab. Resource 4b 3g. Worker -> Workboat.
3360 Beijing -> 2. Workboat -> Worker. Max resources, (4g)
3040 Worker done -> pyramids. Worker on stone.
2800 Beijing -> 3. Stone done -> road. Resouces on stone and marble.
2720 Road done -> chop wood.
2560 1st chop -> more chop.
2400 2nd chop -> more chop.
2240 Pyramids -> workboat. 3rd chop done, workboat in 1. Writing in 6.

I haven't tried a long game yet, but I think that PA-space is our best chance.

 

[Ozbenno]

Just to throw more random thoughts out there, I tried a BtS OCC Deity game, with a not crowded map for HoF (ie giving the AI more room and better chance to win). Played Gandhi and didn't build the Pyramids and was still able to win via PA/space. Still think Pyramids are the best option but we'll still be able to win without them. Also found out that it seems the rules for PA are 40 turns of DP or 40 turns of shared war (I always thought you could have 40 turns of mixed). I think in this game shared war is going to be the ticket.

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Good work Mac, managed to get them done in 2360BC .

Probably same as yourself except I didnt build warrior. Suppose just depends how secure we feel with only 1 warrior at first. Spent loads of time making spreadsheet of moves only to find cant upload excel here.

Basic Summary

Worker (stop 1 turn short) - Workboat for 3 turns - finish worker - finish wrkboat - mids

Fishing- Masonry - wheel - Bw - ........

Worker quarries/roads stone, quarries marble, chops two forested plains hills.

I agree with Oz the mids will be useful but winning/losing will be about picking right PA/Diplo.

 

[Ozbenno]

Nice work McArine and Mighty, both more efficient Pyramid builders than I. I think the mega-chopping and MMing is the way to go.

Starting strategy Part II
Research: Fishing, Masonry, The Wheel, Bronze Working
Build: Worker (stop 1 turn short), Work Boat (until 2 turns left on Masonry), finish worker, finish work boat, Pyramids
Worker: Quarry stone, connect stone, quarry marble, chop forests until Pyramids done

Once everyone has had a chance to comment on further refinements, we could even start this thing.

Are we happy with 10 turns only fom the beginning, stopping at any major discussion points?

 

[cubbiesin08]

I agree about that method to ensure getting the Pyramids first - hard to imagine any civ beating us.

What about grabbing Stonehenge first, then the Pyramids? In the test game, I was able to get Henge in 2760 BC and then the Pyramids in 2160 BC - still pretty fast. Getting Henge allowed for better culture pop early and I was able to steal India's copper and buid axemen. With as tight a map as we are going to have, is it worth an early push to Henge and then the Pyramids. That is a long time to pass before building a 2nd warrior, but the gamble may pay off. Any thoughts...

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

The problem with stonehenge is that it is obsolete very early especially on Vanilla and Deity. Therfore its benefits may not be worth the risk. It may all depend on what one or two tiles it might help us obtain as these will be outside our BFC unless they have some resource significance they will be worthless. I also think that any war we get involved in will hopefully not involve any fighting ourselves and will merely be a tool to suck up to potential PA civ.

 

[cubbiesin08]

That is true with stonehenge.

The ability to build axemen or swordsmen is not to attack better, but help us defend better. If they don't give us copper or iron, we may be stuck building archers for a very long time.

 

[Ozbenno]

In my test game I had 2 warriors and an archer in the capital, which I upgraded as I could (archer to longbow to rifle, warriors to grens) even though I was twice in wars. We have to pick the right wars (ie one where our opponents can't get at us) to be in.

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Im about half way through Oz's test game and am holding my own, slight tech lead, just need to align with correct PA. I managed to build Mids and used Great Engineer for Glib although maybe could have built it normally. Again have been "involved" in a couple of wars but havent had one direct battle which is what we should aim for. If we get drawn into battle we could be in trouble.

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Finished Oz's test save winning PA space race in early 1900's. I PA'd with Asoka as he had 6 cities to our south and thus was sci and production leader. I was held up though by his annoying habit of researching none needed techs e.g flight and refusal to build last few space ship parts. I had to build last 3 myself . Is there some reason why he chose to build pointless things like Wall Street, Mt Rushmore rather than last few spaceship parts?? I also thought was good idea to build Taj Mahal but this polluted GP gene pool and I ended up with 3-4 Great Artists so not sure GA was actually beneficial, maybe idea if we are first to Nationalsim or other important later wonder techs to gift trade these to our potential PA so they can build these wonders.

 

[Ozbenno]

I was continually directing Lizzie in my game to research other techs as she wasn't teching the right techs. I only had to build one part though. All GPs are good when merged.

 

[Ozbenno]

I think we should look at playing the first 10 in the next day or so. Any further thoughts from anyone?

In general, I think we have a couple of days between turns, to assess our position (in the beginning it will be looking at the neighbours and later refining our strategy). As the game progresses, we can speed things up (as usual).

 

[glenmetz]

I agree with Oz, I think we know what the plan is. I would have liked to try and crank out 50 turns on the test save but the wonderful weather up here has taken me away from my PC and into the fresh air. Who's first?

 

[Mighty Dwaarf]

Go for it Oz think first ten is pretty nailed down as Fish/Masonry, worker whilst explore a little with warrior. Although we could have sweepstake for first civ to meet?? I'll go for Arabia.

 

[pholkhero]

so, to start with, here's 3 strikes i have going against me:
1) I've never played Deity.
2) I only played 2 or 3 OCC games.
3) I haven't played Vanilla in a LONG time.

In any case, I started up Oz's save. I went with Masonry right off the bat, not worrying about fishing as we were building a worker first.

Then, Masonry>Fishing>Wheel>BW, and once the worker was done, I went with the Pyramids, stuck out a WB when i could, and back to Pyramids. I hadn't really seen the whole debate on here about it, but it makes the most sense to me. Popping GPs and merging them sounds like a good plan.

The only problem in my test game was a divided world of religions, adn that looks to be similar to the problem in all of our games: winning. I didn't finish b/c i need more work on PAs. Don't you have to fight a war to enable a PA with some civs??

i also seemed to be doing *okay* techwise. I was the first to Civil Service, and from there, I set sights on Communism and PAs, though I haven't gotten that far.

 

[McArine]

I gave the test game a try today.
Did the whole thing as planned. But, Asoka got really big, and beat me to most of the techs including liberalism.
It was a rather quiet game, and I wasn't able to get into a war to enable a PA, cause there was no wars. The first I got into, was Isabella declaring on me, yes she's on the south end of the continent, but she beat me thoroughly. I wasn't able to get any other in on the war.

I think that if we have to have been in a 40 turn war by the time we get communism, if we have to "manufacture" one then we should do that.

Sweepstakes: I'll go for India.

 

[Ozbenno]

Although we could have sweepstake for first civ to meet?? I'll go for Arabia.

I'll take Hatty.

Let's get going then, probaly won't be me though, can't play until tomorrow. Remember first time around to post a got it in the thread here first (and check for cross posts).

 

[cubbiesin08]

This is the I've got it post. I will report shortly.

 

[cubbiesin08]

First 10 turns are completed.

Settled in place and found out we also have deer and sheep in fat cross!

Started worker and fishing according to plan.

Turn 6, we meet Asoka, Elizabeth, Washington, and Tokugawa. Washington is directly south and we can barely see Elizabeth's territory to the southwest.

When fishing completed, started masonry (7 left).

The worker has 2 turns left - our plan may go slightly faster, or need to be altered, because we are currently working the deer tile (2 food, 2 hammer).

I've attached a screen shot showing our starting area...too bad we are just going to miss that silver.

 

[Ozbenno]

Better start position than I was expecting. We'll grab the fish eventually, giving us 4 health resources and we may get the cows but unlikely. Our number of specialists to employ just grew by 2 I think.

The neighbours are OK, as long as we don't have a shared border with Tokogawa. He won't OB so can't get to us. Gives us a chance to try and get someone to declare on him and join the dogpile later in the game for our shared war bonus. Asoka and Washington are better choices than Gandhi and Rossevelt as the latter two are Industrious.

We could have switched from Fishing to Hunting at the start and skipped a work boat but as we haven't, we should swap production to a work boat when the worker has 1 turn left and switch back when Masonry has 2 turns left as per the original plan. We may want to slip in Hunting earlier than we would have. I added some thoughts as to where we go after our current plans for discussion.

Upcoming Research: Masonry, The Wheel, Bronze Working, Hunting?, Pottery, Writing?, Alphabet?
Upcoming Builds: Worker (stop 1 turn short), Work Boat (until 2 turns left on Masonry), finish worker, finish work boat, Pyramids, granary?, library (as soon as Writing completes)?

If I WB the existing save to get our exact starting position and the AI in the right areas, would anyone have another crack?