SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element

[WastinTime]

I suppose you could say the 1 hammer is going to be around 300-400 hammers over the next 200 turns (depends a lot on rounding). So that's 150-200 beakers if you build Research.

I doubt we'll bother trying to get econ first. I've never done that. We'll see how things pan out.

Beeline to communism? No. We don't research that. Let the AI do it. We don't need Kremlin or State Prop. I usually even let them get Mil. Trad. for defensive pacts, but we may want that sooner that it normally comes. If we happen to get shared wars going, then we won't need that at all.

Currency can wait (hopefully less than 6 turns.)

 

[culdeus]

Well, machinery is in the path for Optics, so Astro.
I can't remember if communism is opened only by SM/Lib, but i think so.

Question: knowledge of communism is needed by both the PA partners or 1 is enough?

We can probably trade for Feud and if we're still in monopoly of Edu we can successfully try the Economics race, if we think it's worth it.
There's a counterside by going for Communism fast: we'll lost our 2 scientists from the GLib. But there's time to discuss this.

This is correct.

 

[culdeus]

I suppose you could say the 1 hammer is going to be around 300-400 hammers over the next 200 turns (depends a lot on rounding). So that's 150-200 beakers if you build Research.

I doubt we'll bother trying to get econ first. I've never done that. We'll see how things pan out.

Beeline to communism? No. We don't research that. Let the AI do it. We don't need Kremlin or State Prop. I usually even let them get Mil. Trad. for defensive pacts, but we may want that sooner that it normally comes. If we happen to get shared wars going, then we won't need that at all.

Currency can wait (hopefully less than 6 turns.)

Sorry to be the n00b here, but um, what? I thought that was one of the absolute key techs. Can we list the stuff we will actually research then?

 

[WastinTime]

If we were going for culture, then we'd want to rush communism/PA so we could gift artists, etc. But we have no use for a PA until at least turn 200. Instead of trying to list every tech we plan to research, let's just discuss each one as it comes. We're good thru Education so far. Who knows what's next after that? There are many choices.

 

[Sweetacshon]

If we were going for culture, then we'd want to rush communism/PA so we could gift artists, etc. But we have no use for a PA until at least turn 200. Instead of trying to list every tech we plan to research, let's just discuss each one as it comes. We're good thru Education so far. Who knows what's next after that? There are many choices.

CiV is what happens while you're busy making other plans.

 

[MacBalt]

CiV is what happens while you're busy making other plans.

Speaking of which (just in case anyone is still hanging around) I'll play in about an hour or two -- just time enough to make sure I really AM safely out of margaritaland.

Great discussions, but I haven't seen any more talk about stuff for this turnset, so I'll go with the "Draft #2" Goals that were posted earlier.

P.S. Hey Sweetaschon, if you're still around, how do I put user comments in the Autolog like you did on your last turnset? I liked that.

------------
EDIT: Spoke too soon... I'm out of juice, and I think I'd better hit this turnset fully conscious, so I'll play tomorrow morning instead.

 

[WastinTime]

Great. I'm glad you held off, cus I was just going to try to stop you. I changed my mind. I realized that this is not like my usual games. The AI is so crippled with only 2-3 cities that we should not be afraid to trade CS if we have to. We'll be at Edu in a blink of an eye and we'll be giving CS away. So now I'm thinking we should get currency on the next turn to boost research. If that trade forces us to trade CS for monarchy, fine. I'm going to bed too, so I'll check back in the morning.

 

[Sweetacshon]

Press alt-E ingame to add user comments.

Draft B sounds fine to me. Good luck.

 

[BLubmuz]

Great. I'm glad you held off, cus I was just going to try to stop you. I changed my mind. I realized that this is not like my usual games. The AI is so crippled with only 2-3 cities that we should not be afraid to trade CS if we have to. We'll be at Edu in a blink of an eye and we'll be giving CS away. So now I'm thinking we should get currency on the next turn to boost research. If that trade forces us to trade CS for monarchy, fine. I'm going to bed too, so I'll check back in the morning.

Wow!

This team is full of vicious guys, and it happened to me, drinking only water and coca-cola

 

[dutchfire]

Great. I'm glad you held off, cus I was just going to try to stop you. I changed my mind. I realized that this is not like my usual games. The AI is so crippled with only 2-3 cities that we should not be afraid to trade CS if we have to. We'll be at Edu in a blink of an eye and we'll be giving CS away. So now I'm thinking we should get currency on the next turn to boost research. If that trade forces us to trade CS for monarchy, fine. I'm going to bed too, so I'll check back in the morning.

I just fear we'll hit WFYABTA. By the way, I think it's also important to make sure there are no civs lagging behind in tech, as WFYABTA doesn't work for civ in the bottom half of the scoreboard.

 

[WastinTime]

Seems early for wfyabta. Did anyone count how many tech we got free? Are we close to 10 yet?

I'm happy either way we go, but I vote for currency now.

 

[BLubmuz]

I get 9 techs in 3 turns of trade, right after Alpha (see my TS report).
Then Sabre gets Math
Then Dutch and Culdeus get nothing

Who's the trader here?

 

[WastinTime]

Recall that the AI also "forgets" slowly the number of trades, so we shouldn't lose anyone (or not many) on exactly our 10th trade. I can see how this could make us nervous though.

Here's my thought on why trading currency could be good. The goal is simple, get monarchy in time for bureau switch. If we trade CoL for currency to an AI that does NOT have monarchy. They may trade CoL for monarchy and break the monopoly. We'd may need to trade CS to get Monarchy, but as I said, I'm ok with that.

 

[culdeus]

Great. I'm glad you held off, cus I was just going to try to stop you. I changed my mind. I realized that this is not like my usual games. The AI is so crippled with only 2-3 cities that we should not be afraid to trade CS if we have to. We'll be at Edu in a blink of an eye and we'll be giving CS away. So now I'm thinking we should get currency on the next turn to boost research. If that trade forces us to trade CS for monarchy, fine. I'm going to bed too, so I'll check back in the morning.

Isn't that backwards logic though. Why give a tech that makes one of their 2-3 cities 50% stronger?

That being said I'm flat out terrified of Washington. He's totally pinned in and has a settler roaming around looking to put down that I saw off to the NE. If he doesn't find somewhere I'd say he's gonna come after us.

 

[dutchfire]

Recall that the AI also "forgets" slowly the number of trades, so we shouldn't lose anyone (or not many) on exactly our 10th trade. I can see how this could make us nervous though.

Here's my thought on why trading currency could be good. The goal is simple, get monarchy in time for bureau switch. If we trade CoL for currency to an AI that does NOT have monarchy. They may trade CoL for monarchy and break the monopoly. We'd may need to trade CS to get Monarchy, but as I said, I'm ok with that.

There's a 1/20 chance that a leader forgets a tech trade every turn.

Taking the last turn of BLub's turnset (55) until the last turn of Culdeus' turnchat (79) is 24 turns.

E(# of forgotten techs) = 1 / 20 * 24 = 1.2

That's not much

 

[WastinTime]

Isn't that backwards logic though. Why give a tech that makes one of their 2-3 cities 50% stronger?

Big Picture: The faster they launch, the faster we launch.

@dutchfire: Most trades were around turn 49-50, so that's ~1.5 forgotten techs. So every AI should have forgotten at least 1, half of them forgot 2. That makes Currency a pretty safe trade.

 

[MacBalt]

Here's my thought on why trading currency could be good. The goal is simple, get monarchy in time for bureau switch. If we trade CoL for currency to an AI that does NOT have monarchy. They may trade CoL for monarchy and break the monopoly. We'd may need to trade CS to get Monarchy, but as I said, I'm ok with that.

Okay, I'm sensing some "soft" disagreement about trading, so how about this: I'll play 4 turns, until 2 turns before Civil Service, waiting for Monarchy to become available. If it isn't available by then, I'll trade for currency, hoping Monarchy may get freed up by the time civil service arrives. If it does and I can get it without trading civil service, I will. If I can't get it without trading civil service, I'll save the game, post some screen shots and consult the team. What do you say?

 

[WastinTime]

I'm ok with that

 

[dutchfire]

Fine by me

 

[MacBalt]

Okay. Going to take it slow, so this might take an hour or two.