Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
The trades sound good, but we should fully discuss the -ve ramifications first. If I wasn't still hungover, I'd look into it now, but I need sleep.
SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I know the problem for trading with Izzy, but she's the only one offering this trade and without any further trades chances.
So i strongly vote for this one, of course we're 9, and my vote is 1.
Have a good sleep, debauchee
So i strongly vote for this one, of course we're 9, and my vote is 1.
Have a good sleep, debauchee
We learned a while ago that Asoka discovered Judaism, so there is likely not another civ to discover near Alex.
We must take the masonry before we don't get any.
Plan A to get bronze is Myst+Writing to Fred. Plan B is masonry/Alex.
Looks like HC is probably close to getting writing himself since he will only trade Myst and not wheel too. Which means he won't trade for Sailing, right? That means he won't trade Poly next turn either if he has it. We should probably get something from him. How about Myst. on round 1? We can always get the wheel from someone else. It's best if we keep as many trading partners as possible that can give us Poly.
So I like round 1: masonry/Izzy, myst/HC.
round 2 : Poly, Bronze, wheel, Sailing, etc.
We must take the masonry before we don't get any.
Plan A to get bronze is Myst+Writing to Fred. Plan B is masonry/Alex.
Looks like HC is probably close to getting writing himself since he will only trade Myst and not wheel too. Which means he won't trade for Sailing, right? That means he won't trade Poly next turn either if he has it. We should probably get something from him. How about Myst. on round 1? We can always get the wheel from someone else. It's best if we keep as many trading partners as possible that can give us Poly.
So I like round 1: masonry/Izzy, myst/HC.
round 2 : Poly, Bronze, wheel, Sailing, etc.
I doubt we get any of the worst enemy problems this early. Like I said before, they're only "worst friends" now.
Am I allowed to download the save? I just want to look at our land.
Am I allowed to download the save? I just want to look at our land.
Oracle will be gone soon. We have almost no production, so we can't get it out unless we change the scientists. I think we want to get the scientists done with the Academy so we can attack the GLib. We'll be at Lit in no time.
Yes, you are. You just can't make any irreversible changes.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
You're forgetting that the wheel is a prerequisite for pottery: if KK or Wash are interested to give us both Myst + Wheel, why bother with HC?
If for keep up relations, OK - otherwise...
I'm comforted by your point on masonry
ok for plan A/B
Like I said, we either get Myst from HC now or get nothing (maybe archery). What if we trade Writing w/KK and find out KK has Poly? Now we have nothing to trade him. Same for Wash. Even if HC has poly, we know he won't trade it for Writing since he will only trade Myst (w/no wheel).
Izzy will likely have Poly, but we must get Masonry for several reasons. 1) She's the only one willing to trade. 2) we may need it to get bronze next turn 3) We need to start marble soon, probably road first.
We should get wheel on 2nd round for roads and to open up pottery.
We'll get pottery eventually, but our worker has a lot of things to do before cottages. Might be nice to start a granary, but we won't finish it before the Glib anyway.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
I think it is unlikely we'll be able to get Poly for writing anyway... even if we had an extra tech to sweeten the deal. Shouldn't we just do it on our own? We could trade for Mysticism now, set the tech slider back to 100% this turn, and set the research selection to Poly? It will only take about four turns to get it on our own -- plus we will then have another tech to trade with.
P.S. In the city screen I noticed that one of our scientists was shirking as just a citizen. I might have been fooling around with working different city tiles, but I don't think so. Anyway, we're still on target for Academy in 59, but BLub should be sure to check this just in case it's the same in the "real" save.
P.S. In the city screen I noticed that one of our scientists was shirking as just a citizen. I might have been fooling around with working different city tiles, but I don't think so. Anyway, we're still on target for Academy in 59, but BLub should be sure to check this just in case it's the same in the "real" save.
4 turns on normal is 12 turns on marathon. That's a lot.
I agree with your Poly plan. I would put 100% Poly after getting Myst. This is good if we end up researching it ourselves, and it also makes Poly a bit easier to trade for. Ya'll are familiar with partially-researched trades?
Sometimes you get Meditation on round 2, and that will trade for Poly round 3 ONLY if you have partially researched Poly. If we get Med. then we can maybe do Priest first while waiting for Poly to become tradable. Then on to Lit. Can't wait too long for Poly though.
I think our shot at trading Poly is a good one. I'm surprised to see all the Sailing already.
I agree with your Poly plan. I would put 100% Poly after getting Myst. This is good if we end up researching it ourselves, and it also makes Poly a bit easier to trade for. Ya'll are familiar with partially-researched trades?
Sometimes you get Meditation on round 2, and that will trade for Poly round 3 ONLY if you have partially researched Poly. If we get Med. then we can maybe do Priest first while waiting for Poly to become tradable. Then on to Lit. Can't wait too long for Poly though.
I think our shot at trading Poly is a good one. I'm surprised to see all the Sailing already.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
That's good news! I'm not very familiar with partially-researched trades, but happy to take your word for it.
This approach gets my vote.
I like this plan too. It is smart to take things slow for a while now.
Those AIs don't stand a chance! HC will be buying his crown back from us before long. Rock on Blub!
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Do we need a plan for responding to an AI demand for Alphabet during the next few turns? I'm guessing it will come on turn 50 if it doesn't come sooner. I refused the demand in my test games with no problem, but if it should come from Alex or Washington then I might get nervous again. I'm not so concerned about refusing HC or Izzy. Hopefully Izzy will have some local problems of her own to worry about before too long. We might want to talk about the possibility of re-opening borders with HC too.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
OK, for some reason, I can't make the citizen be the second scientist, and if I remove the first one, I can't make any scientists. WTH? Is anybody else having this problem? Please check before continuing.
Also, we're going to pop the happy cap. Doesn't look like we can stop it, that sucks.
Otherwise, I agree with the plans as they currently are.
EDIT: OK, turning off the specialist stacker in the HOF mod fixes the problem.
Also, we're going to pop the happy cap. Doesn't look like we can stop it, that sucks.
Otherwise, I agree with the plans as they currently are.
EDIT: OK, turning off the specialist stacker in the HOF mod fixes the problem.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
I think I had something like this problem too (see post #56). It is a HOF mod bug. WT had a solution for it here in post #57. The full discussion & context are on page 3.
We can just work the marble mine let the city starve for awhile. It's good for them -- builds character.Also, we're going to pop the happy cap. Doesn't look like we can stop it, that sucks.
It will also get that warrior out faster -- and whatever else we're going to build. What is going to be next in the build order anyway?
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
But working the marble will cost us 3gpt, so I wouldn't necessarily want to do it for too long. We need that theater ASAP.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Well, yeah -- except I've changed my mind about needing the theater right away. I think the GL is a better target. We don't want to pop the happy cap though, so I don't think we have much of a choice. Anyone have any other ideas? Maybe now would be a good time to start that barracks? The 3gpt hurts, but I'm thinking it isn't nearly as critical now that we've made it to alphabet -- especially when we might be doing only a partial research on Poly this turn.
EDIT (add): If by some chance we get Archery this turn then I think building an archer might be a good choice.
EDIT (add): If by some chance we get Archery this turn then I think building an archer might be a good choice.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
The pecking order for demands, as I see it right now:
Frederick
George
Julius
KK
Alex/Asoka (Tie)
HC
Toku
Elizabeth
Izzy
This is based on power for the most part. Soon Alex will rise up the list, because he's a nutjob and because he's currently got the highest mfg goods.
Other considerations: Elizabeth is one of our border states, so she probably needs to rise on the list. If we can have our neighbors friendly, we may be able to get them to close borders with somebody if they DoW us. That might help to save our skin in a pinch.
On the political side, Izzy is leading the world in hate (what else is new?) and could pop off some sh*t at any minute with anybody. Let's get the masonry from her ASAP and try to avoid her at all costs. I don 't think we should ever open borders with her, as somebody is bound to ask us to cancel anyway.
Fred and Izzy are church buddies, so we need to be watchful of that relationship.
EDIT: I think we may need to consider chopping forest outside our FC to speed the theater.
EDIT the EDIT: Well, there's no forest outside our FC. Maybe we should sacrifice a patch and not improve it anyway, in the hope that it will grow back. Be nice if we could somehow get maths first.
Frederick
George
Julius
KK
Alex/Asoka (Tie)
HC
Toku
Elizabeth
Izzy
This is based on power for the most part. Soon Alex will rise up the list, because he's a nutjob and because he's currently got the highest mfg goods.
Other considerations: Elizabeth is one of our border states, so she probably needs to rise on the list. If we can have our neighbors friendly, we may be able to get them to close borders with somebody if they DoW us. That might help to save our skin in a pinch.
On the political side, Izzy is leading the world in hate (what else is new?) and could pop off some sh*t at any minute with anybody. Let's get the masonry from her ASAP and try to avoid her at all costs. I don 't think we should ever open borders with her, as somebody is bound to ask us to cancel anyway.
Fred and Izzy are church buddies, so we need to be watchful of that relationship.
EDIT: I think we may need to consider chopping forest outside our FC to speed the theater.
EDIT the EDIT: Well, there's no forest outside our FC. Maybe we should sacrifice a patch and not improve it anyway, in the hope that it will grow back. Be nice if we could somehow get maths first.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
The theather alone is useless for happiness, it needs a dye for an happy face!
When we build a theater after conquered a city is for its culture, and also because, beeing in war, we probably have the culture slider up.
The colosseum gives 1 happy, but it comes with construction.
We probably must learn to live with some unhappy people, until a religion spreads to us (temple), and until we can adopt HR.
We need that silver, it's +2 with our cheap forge.
Merum, why Fred is on top of the list?
He's Izzy's religion buddy, IMHO he should be down.
I'll wait for some more contributes to my next TS strategy, so i'll play tomorrow, after post my targets.
When we build a theater after conquered a city is for its culture, and also because, beeing in war, we probably have the culture slider up.
The colosseum gives 1 happy, but it comes with construction.
We probably must learn to live with some unhappy people, until a religion spreads to us (temple), and until we can adopt HR.
We need that silver, it's +2 with our cheap forge.
Merum, why Fred is on top of the list?
He's Izzy's religion buddy, IMHO he should be down.
I'll wait for some more contributes to my next TS strategy, so i'll play tomorrow, after post my targets.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
Fred's on top of the list because he's currently the most powerful, and could easily roll over us if he wanted to. I'm sure the list will change as the world situation changes, but right now we don't want either Fred or Izzy pissed off at us. That said, one could argue for moving Izzy up the list, but she's kinda far away and weak, so I dunno.
The theater is required to build the globe, and will also help us try to push our culture out, to maybe expand over the furs again, and the silver to the south. I'm no culture expert, but I think more is better?
The theater is required to build the globe, and will also help us try to push our culture out, to maybe expand over the furs again, and the silver to the south. I'm no culture expert, but I think more is better?
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