SGOTM 07 - Fifth Element

Great Artist pollution :(
This is why i avoid it with a Philo Leader.
But usually if you add 1 scientist to the 2 of the GLib, and if you avoid to build it right after a GS pop, you can never see a GA.
But a little pollution it's worth the risk, with our only source of GPs.
 
Noone has mentioned it yet, but I'd prefer to settle our GSs, especially since we've decided to go SR. I don't think we need to bulb to get liberalism, or at least I never had troubles getting it in the tests.
 
I think that is WastinTime's approach. I tried in a few recent test games too and, I must admit, it is indeed possible -- more than possible, it is probable -- to get to Liberalism first without bulbing anything. I don't think we need to settle on a position on this for a few more turnsets, but I'm leaning toward the "no bulb" approach now too.
 
Ok, finished. Let me upload stuff and I'll update. Only one noteworthy event happened and it was not surprising.

log from cf

Spoiler :


Turn 72, 1120 BC: Julius Caesar adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 72, 1120 BC: Hypatia has been born in a far away land!

Turn 74, 1040 BC: Alexander has declared war on Huayna Capac!

Turn 75, 1000 BC: Tokugawa adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 76, 975 BC: Washington adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 76, 975 BC: Washington adopts Vassalage!
Turn 76, 975 BC: Washington adopts Serfdom!

Turn 78, 925 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Asoka

Turn 79, 900 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Kublai Khan, Huayna Capac


Save link


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/Fifth_Element_SG007_BC0900_01.Civ4SavedGame


HOF LOG

Spoiler :

Turn 71/460 (1160 BC) [14-May-2008 20:20:02]
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 72/460 (1120 BC) [14-May-2008 20:20:50]
Beijing finishes: Spearman
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Julius Caesar(Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Civics Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 73/460 (1080 BC) [14-May-2008 20:24:45]
Beijing begins: Archer (2 turns)
Beijing finishes: Archer
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) towards SGOTM07(China), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 74/460 (1040 BC) [14-May-2008 20:26:58]
Beijing begins: Granary (5 turns)
Beijing grows: 7
Alexander(Greece) declares war on Huayna Capac(Inca)
Attitude Change: Washington(America) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Huayna Capac(Inca), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Washington(America), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'

Turn 75/460 (1000 BC) [14-May-2008 20:31:21]
Attitude Change: Huayna Capac(Inca) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Civics Change: Tokugawa(Japan) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 76/460 (975 BC) [14-May-2008 20:33:34]
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Civics Change: Washington(America) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'
Civics Change: Washington(America) from 'Barbarism' to 'Vassalage'
Civics Change: Washington(America) from 'Slavery' to 'Serfdom'

Turn 77/460 (950 BC) [14-May-2008 20:36:14]
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 78/460 (925 BC) [14-May-2008 20:38:53]
Beijing finishes: Granary
Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Kublai Khan(Mongolia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Elizabeth(England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 79/460 (900 BC) [14-May-2008 20:40:15]
Beijing begins: Archer (2 turns)


Big events. 2 turns in we got our fur back which cuts down on the CS time by 2 turns. Washington has longbows and has vaulted head and shoulders above everyone in power. And I mean VAULTED. I'll add some screens.

As expected Alex declared on HC. Both of them asked us to declare on the other and netted us down to 0 in relations for both of them for declining.

When the sheep got in I just gave it up to Washington being in awe of his longbows for nothing. The worker is cottaging the plains N of the capital now. The granary is in and another archer can be had in 1 turn if desired or we can move on to something else.
 
screens screens :goodjob:
 

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Big events. 2 turns in we got our fur back which cuts down on the CS time by 2 turns. Washington has longbows and has vaulted head and shoulders above everyone in power. And I mean VAULTED. I'll add some screens.

As expected Alex declared on HC. Both of them asked us to declare on the other and netted us down to 0 in relations for both of them for declining.

When the sheep got in I just gave it up to Washington being in awe of his longbows for nothing. The worker is cottaging the plains N of the capital now. The granary is in and another archer can be had in 1 turn if desired or we can move on to something else.
Looks good culdeus. We've got some defenders now and a granary. :goodjob:

I notice that New York's borders still haven't popped to 3 yet, so we could still lose access to the fur for a turn or two. Our borders should pop again very soon too though, and at +19 culture per turn we are guaranteed not to lose the tile again for very long.

It's about time Alex declared on somebody. Too bad it couldn't have been Washington, but HC will do. We should monitor that situation closely for opportunities to pile on and improve our relations with Asoka & Liz. Sure didn't take long for those longbows to show up.

So, we gifted the sheep to Washington instead of Priesthood? Interesting. Any trade opportunities... Guess it is time to check the save.


EDIT: Oops -- just checked the save and NY's borders did pop, but we kept the fur anyway. Two turns until our next border pop, so not much to worry about there. Looks like we're going to get the clams (& fish) over by Nottingham too, because it doesn't look like Liz has built even so much as an obelisk there. Maybe that city will go down faster just because it hasn't got any culture yet -- not even a religion. :D

Um, given our immanent access to the fish, maybe we should build a workboat soon? Two, actually, because the clams still don't have nets either. What an icy dump Nottingham must be!

Looks like a couple of AI are ready to trade currency, but no offers on Monarchy yet. :( I hope it doesn't take too much longer... We've only got six turns to Civil Service.


EDIT 2: Just noticed we got the cows too! That's nice -- and sooner than I would have expected given the influence of both New York and Washington.


EDIT 3: We can grow in 4 turns instead of 8 by shifting from the stone to the deer (& CS still comes in six). I think we should do this to get our growth going now.
 
We'll revolt to Hereditary Rule and Bureaucracy in six turns -- assuming we can find some way to trade for Monarchy by then. HR will give us plenty of :). I think the chances are good we'll get it by then.

EDIT: Oh yeah, we're not out of happy yet either. We have 8 happy coming from +3 deity default, +1 palace, +1 incense, +1 gold, +1 fur, & +1 silver = +8 happy. So we have room for one more pop growth. Our timing looks pretty good here.
 
EDIT 3: We can grow in 4 turns instead of 8 by shifting from the stone to the deer (& CS still comes in six). I think we should do this to get our growth going now.

Absolutely, we can slow down food after we reach the happy cap, but not before.

Longbows before 1000BC? I'm a bit surprised. The good news is I don't recall ever getting attacked by a stack of longbows.

There is a good overflow going into that archer. I think we have to pay upkeep on the next unit, so we should switch. I'm sure we'll think of something better to build. I'm thinking Monastery or Lighthouse. Workboat soon, but not first.

Seems like a flawless turnset. Nice work.
 
Alright, this game is surprisingly respecting our plans!
Longbows before 1000 BC is soon, even on Deity, especially given the poor land Wash has.
I guess we'll need maces and cats, so no wars for a pretty long time.

Yes, i'll put a LH in the build queue. And before build workboats better see how that icy city will go.
And we must try to get currency and monarchy ASAP.
Also, if anyone has Drama yet, we can take a detour, just to have one more tech to trade.

Roster: From now on the rosters will take place after a TS.
Balthalion - UP, to begin the 2nd round
greatbeyond - on deck
WastinTime
Sweetacshon
Blubmuz
Sabre
dutchfire
culdeus - resting
Merum - skip, i'll let him floating to take place when he'll can play
 
Lighthouse first looks good, then what? The National Epic (better get our marble back then), or a monastry?

By the way, New York now has Hindu Temple + Library.

Should we trade for Calendar/Currency now?
 
We'll revolt to Hereditary Rule and Bureaucracy in six turns -- assuming we can find some way to trade for Monarchy by then. HR will give us plenty of :). I think the chances are good we'll get it by then.

EDIT: Oh yeah, we're not out of happy yet either. We have 8 happy coming from +3 deity default, +1 palace, +1 incense, +1 gold, +1 fur, & +1 silver = +8 happy. So we have room for one more pop growth. Our timing looks pretty good here.

Wait, we are supposed to lose the fur soon anyways. Right?
 
I think you all are far too optimistic about getting Monarchy from our available techs to trade.

Monarchy is less beakers (i.e. easier to get) than calendar, which is easier than currency with our current techs. The next TS will require skill and *patience* to get all the tech we desire without trading CS. We should not trade for currency and definitely NOT calendar before monarchy. Just one more trade could cause several AI to stop trading. We need to keep the probablility of trading for monarchy as high as possible for the next 6 turns.
 
Monarchy is less beakers (i.e. easier to get) than calendar, which is easier than currency with our current techs. The next TS will require skill and *patience* to get all the tech we desire without trading CS. We should not trade for currency and definitely NOT calendar before monarchy. Just one more trade could cause several AI to stop trading. We need to keep the probablility of trading for monarchy as high as possible for the next 6 turns.

Why wait 6 turns then? Are we just hoping more AI research it or trade for it and thus lowering it's value in time to revolt with Buearu?
 
We'll only need it 6 turns from now. Though I suppose we should trade for it if we can get it earlier.
 
Why wait 6 turns then? Are we just hoping more AI research it or trade for it and thus lowering it's value in time to revolt with Buearu?

No, we're waiting only because no one will trade it yet. If it's available next turn, then we can trade. We don't have to wait 6 turns, but we must resist the lure of currency until Monarchy is in.
 
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