SGOTM 07 - Unusual Suspects

[AlanH]

Welcome to your C_IV SGOTM 7 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

The team lists are at the end of this post.

The Game
You are Qin Shi Huang, the great Chinese leader. You find yourself on a tiny world, surrounded by all the other vanilla civs. You can only build or own a single city, and the difficulty level is .... Deity!

The Objective
This Deity OCC game is on a Tiny map, at Normal speed, against 17 rivals. All victory conditions are enabled, and the laurels for this contest will be awarded to the teams who achieve the earliest victory date in the game.

Versions
This game will be played in Civilization IV version 1.74, and using the latest vanilla HOF Mod.

Windows players need the HOF Mod at: HOF-1.74.002.
Windows players who have not installed BtS 3.13 will need to swap their vanilla CvGameCoreDLL.dll file so that their Civ4 installation is compatible with copies that have the BtS installation. Download the new DLL zip file here. The enclosed Readme file gives details for the installation.

Mac players are in a separate team as the HoF Mod cannot be made to work cross-platform. They will use Civ4 for Mac version 1.74, and HOF-Mac-1.74.002.

Schedule
Start files for each team will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page at midnight, server local time, at the start of April 24.

Please try to complete this game within three months of the start date.

Starting Position
Here's the starting position - click the image below to see a larger version.

​

Map Parameters

Playable Leader/Civ - Qin Shi Huang of China.
Characteristics - Industrious and Financial, starts with Agriculture and Mining
Unique Unit - Cho-Ku-Nu (Crossbowman)
Rivals - All of them
World size - Tiny
Difficulty - Deity
Landform - Continents
Environment - Temperate climate, low sea level
Game Speed - Normal
AI Aggression - Normal
Barbarians - Normal
Permanent Alliances - Enabled
City Razing - Enabled. China auto-razes to enforce OCC.
​

Notes

• Please visit the Civ4 SGOTM reference thread to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.
  
• Teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the fastest finishes, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher. The laurels will be presented to the three teams who achieve victories in the fewest turns.
  
• All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.
  
• Do NOT view any other team threads until you have submitted your last save - win, lose or retire.
  
• Do NOT download any other team's save.

Enjoy your game, and please be nice to each other

 

[Morganknight]

checking in.

 

[vra379971]

Checking in as well.

First off, I propose "The Average Joes and Janes" for our team name =)

Next, for strategy...I have a feeling we should go cultural here.

The plan that's been moving around my mind is this...build every wonder we possibly can. I suggest this as we're talking about 100% cheaper on most wonders, and it will allow for amazing Great Person production, which we can settle...and on and on we go.

I'd like to worker steal to get quarries set-up...but how dangerous is that...

Due to how tight space is going to be, we're going to have to play a careful diplomatic game, depending on who is around and map construction I'd like to get an ally civ to surround us with their cities in prep for a PA.

 

[Yamps]

Hi there!

Can't wait to start this one!

Name: not sure, first and foremost, do we have any Janes on the team?

Strategy: I think testing is everything for this game. I've made a test game, starting location is the same as in the real game(almost, hard to make that river the same, you 'll see)

There are some helpfull readings:

War academy:
# Deity - One City Challenge (OCC) Strategy by Phyacis

There are some important differences with that article: we have very poor food, and a fin/ind leader, not philosophical. Phyacis suggests low tile improvement and almost no wonder building, we'll see.

Permanent Alliance Guide by WastinTime. Some usefull tips from our competiton.

There was also one article I liked about PA, but don't remember where it is. Basics, for example we can only have one PA.

Anyway, my opinions:

cultural is a nice idea, but that will take a lot of skill: we have to cultivate our
"pet PA", it's not easy. I've read an article about it, will try to find it. I think domination is easier.

Based on some test games, wonder building will be very hard, AI is FAST!
We can take one early wonder, not two. I've managed pyramids on T44 in my test game, and that was a close call. Haven't played a lot from then, I'll go for GL next for the scientists.

Worker stealing? Brave idea, but that would get as archer and axeman rushed in no time, not worth it.

I agree that diplomacy is everything, we must be very careful. We want our borders safe, but our PA probably further away for stronger influence and no border tension.

Anyway, here is the test game I've made, enjoy!

 

[Morganknight]

I didn't think you could win a cultural victory in OCC...because of the three city requirement...

 

[vra379971]

Hi there!

Can't wait to start this one!

Name: not sure, first and foremost, do we have any Janes on the team?

Strategy: I think testing is everything for this game. I've made a test game, starting location is the same as in the real game(almost, hard to make that river the same, you 'll see)

There are some helpfull readings:

War academy:
# Deity - One City Challenge (OCC) Strategy by Phyacis

There are some important differences with that article: we have very poor food, and a fin/ind leader, not philosophical. Phyacis suggests low tile improvement and almost no wonder building, we'll see.

Permanent Alliance Guide by WastinTime. Some usefull tips from our competiton.

There was also one article I liked about PA, but don't remember where it is. Basics, for example we can only have one PA.

Anyway, my opinions:

cultural is a nice idea, but that will take a lot of skill: we have to cultivate our
"pet PA", it's not easy. I've read an article about it, will try to find it. I think domination is easier.

Based on some test games, wonder building will be very hard, AI is FAST!
We can take one early wonder, not two. I've managed pyramids on T44 in my test game, and that was a close call. Haven't played a lot from then, I'll go for GL next for the scientists.

Worker stealing? Brave idea, but that would get as archer and axeman rushed in no time, not worth it.

I agree that diplomacy is everything, we must be very careful. We want our borders safe, but our PA probably further away for stronger influence and no border tension.

Anyway, here is the test game I've made, enjoy!

This is Diety, nothing will be easy

That said, I think we *could* get away with Worker stealing. The key will be to do it damn fast and far enough away that lack of OB allows us to pull it off as there will be no pursuit.

 

[kcd_swede]

I didn't think you could win a cultural victory in OCC...because of the three city requirement...

That's what I always thought, too. Exception being if you have a PA and two of your teamate civ's cities also go legendary. Not sure about either though, so if anybody KNOWS, clue us in.

I have not played much OCC. The only time I did well was by following the PA strategy, which afterwards makes it no longer an OCC game.

Oh... checking in, btw.

As for the team name, I am not particular. I am not a Jane, either.

This will be my first succession game of any type. I hope you guys can guide me through the mechanics a little. So... which one of you guys wants to be team captain?

As for the game... gawds what a crappy start position for OCC. Deciding where to settle might be the most deciding factor (other than the deity doom, that is).

 

[shikhee]

Checking in!

Names ? Do any of us have particular strengths to emphasise ? (I don't personally!). How about Jane 14 (GI Jane 14 ?), Deanie Martinie, 01110100011001010110000101101101001000000011000100110100 (umm... Team 14 in binary ?), So Your Civ Wants a Revolution ?, how about I Can't Believe They're Not Janes ?

Normally I'd say we were being told to go for the huge amount of wonders with the marble and stone sitting there - but on Deity I don't know if it would help enough!

Culture win doesn't work on your own (I suspect it does with PA) - In one OCC game I had over 300,000 culture in my city because I'd built most of the wonders and great people spam (always use to build into the city, the benefit is greater than any of the religious temples ... only exception I'm aware of is your first scientest to build the academy).

I played a test Diety OCC game (ummmm... twice *cough*) first time I got dumped on pretty bad because I fell behind on war techs and the nearby city I tried to keep taking was on a hill and any army I could build was not big enough. I also didn't have my own access to Iron or Copper and couldn't trade it, and was too close to other cities to out-culture them for it. That said, early and strong military was vital to survive.

I played the same map again with more generous resources nearby, and while I still built my armies I didn't bother trying to take their cities (*cough* after some traumatic events and reloads) and I did miss out on some resources because of culture (although I always had at least my city radius) ... I couldn't found any religions myself but early on got the neighbours and so without a war we were increadibly friendly (something like +15 which is over double what I usually have in my games, then again diplomacy is not my strong point) ... I lagged behind the entire game, didn't get into much war and had a dozen units in and surrounding my city ... got well into the middle ages lagging and then my dear co-religious neighbour offered a PA, I got all their techs and we won very easily after that because he was the consistantly strongest civ on the map.

My conclusions ? Getting your archers and axemen for defence ASAP is vital, and getting a shared religion with your nearest and most dominating/warring neighbour for the mid-late game PA is essential for an actual win.

Judging by the generous resources on the map, I'm 70% confident we'll be getting Copper and/or Iron nearby - yes it's Deity but I suspect we'll be given as much help as possible. Settling in place looks like the obvious choice, I almost want to suggest 1N so we get the whale in our city as well, but as its not BtS and we don't get the production-on-water-wonder it would be a bad idea, but being coastal I feel is vital. Moving E or W possibly exposes us to crap terrain (I'm guessing due to the ice). If we can get a couple of early wonders then pushing for great people would be a super plan, I don't think any major offensive military action is possible on Deity (but then again, I've always prefered city building over war, and never got far in battles unless I had the more advanced units). Also teching for those vital civ-doohickeys (especially Beurocracy) ASAP is pretty vital.

 

[shikhee]

ps - nice to meet you

 

[classical_hero]

Checking in. I think we should call ourselves Motley Crew, since we are a Motley Crew of players.

 

[Yamps]

regarding culture: from what I've read, it has been done. PA partner has to make 2 legendary cities. I don't know if this has been done on deity.

reading:Beta Gauntlet VII

Some things to point out about PA: we can make academies in PA partner cities and join artists for example, but no culture bombing.

regarding worker stealing:

That said, I think we *could* get away with Worker stealing. The key will be to do it damn fast and far enough away that lack of OB allows us to pull it off as there will be no pursuit.

Cunning plan, but:

1) Land gets settled really fast, can we come back?
2) Open borders come fast, if the target opens with first neighbour...
3) First neighbours could also attack on their own
4) Do we really want to make enemies so soon? Defence would slow our wonder building

Anyway, tests will tell. vra379971, care to write a spoiler if you have the time about your test game? I'll do the same.

regarding testing:
Could somebody please also make a test game? I know the map for my test game so it isn't the real thing. Thanx!

regarding settling: wherever we settle, I think we should do it real fast(T0 or T1), if we don't AI will take the land! I'm inclined to settle in place.

 

[AlanH]

Warning. Most of the name suggestions I have seen are likely to be abbreviated for the purposes of game admin. I have to include your team name in the save, and it has to fit the web page without undue stress. It also gets edited into this thread title. The longest one we have currently is "The Real Ms. Beyond", and I'd prefer that yours isn't much longer.

 

[kcd_swede]

Warning. Most of the name suggestions I have seen are likely to be abbreviated for the purposes of game admin. I have to include your team name in the save, and it has to fit the web page without undue stress. It also gets edited into this thread title. The longest one we have currently is "The Real Ms. Beyond", and I'd prefer that yours isn't much longer.

Shucks... then I won't suggest "Your head would look good on a pole".

Perhaps "Cut-and-dried"?

 

[kcd_swede]

Checking in. I think we should call ourselves Motley Crew, since we are a Motley Crew of players.

Hmmm... not bad... its original at least.

 

[Yamps]

Motley Crew, sounds good to me too!

I always forget:

Build a man a fire, and you warm him for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...

 

[vra379971]

Average GI Joe? If not, Motley Crew works

In the the test games I played, I was able to pull off Stonehenge, Pyramids The Col. and GL, all without falling behind due to a Alphabet beeline. And...using 2 warriors for defence. ALOT is going to depend on who Gyn has put as our neighbours...

I've also realized a worker steal is a horrid idea. We don't need it anyway..one sec, will be back with a tech path...

 

[Morganknight]

How about Perfect Strangers?

 

[vra379971]

Well, while I'm not able to upload it right now...this is going to be quite an easy game for us. I'd say it plays like an Immortal/Monarch game for quite a few reasons.

Most civs will be limited to two/three cities max. They will be UNABLE to use any national wonders, apart from Globe and West Point, which gives us quite a nice advantage as we're simply going to be tossing everything in the same city.

In the test save, I hit modern era, one unit a turn production with basically tech parity with most civs, so it should be pretty east to win - doing it fast will be hard.

We should eye either a backdoor Diplomatic/Space/Conquest.

One last note. Hit Modern in the 1600's, so we could likely do it much faster.

 

[Yamps]

Nice playing there vra!

I've started writing a spoiler while I play. I haven't written any spoilers before, it is an enjoyable experience. Well, writing takes time, I have a lot to play.

I'll post later, just a few quick questions:

1) Did you play with the same starting screenshot as in the official game?
Those crabs are a limiting factor: low food and workboat requirement.

2) Did you chop a lot? I'm saving a lot of trees for health, usually I would chop.

3) Did you trade for lower techs? I'm concerened about WFYGTA.

From what I've played, it also feels just fine. I've built more defensive archers early on, I think we can afford it. Better safe than sorry

We haven't heard anything from our last 2 teammates, Melior Traiano and Marconos. I'll take the liberty and send them a PM.

Can't wait to start the game!

 

[Melior Traiano]

Checking in. Sorry I haven't been keeping track of this thread, but I'm able & ready to contribute!