SGOTM 07 - Unusual Suspects

[shikhee]

AlanH said to keep going.

JC is -3 total and Annoyed, we can't trade OB.

Is there a consensus about gifting him Drama ? Do I do this straight away or wait a couple more turns ?

(Sorry but on the weekends I do not have much time to play, if no responses come very quickly I have to wait at least another 24 hours).

 

[Ankka]

It's ok, drama is slightly expensive, I don't think gifting is of any use.

 

[shikhee]

He also wants Literature which is almost half the price of Drama.

Anyway, I have to go... please discuss and advice on things I should be doing with/for JC in the next few turns. I should be able to pick up play tomorrow evening.

Also, when should I be trying to trade for Monarchy ? Or do we not need it for the rest of this turnset ? (at the end of which we will have Civil Service).

 

[Yamps]

He also wants Literature which is almost half the price of Drama.

Anyway, I have to go... please discuss and advice on things I should be doing with/for JC in the next few turns. I should be able to pick up play tomorrow evening.

Also, when should I be trying to trade for Monarchy ? Or do we not need it for the rest of this turnset ? (at the end of which we will have Civil Service).

It would be easier to tell if you post some screenshots or a save here on the team thread. Or if you just post what trading possibilities are there.

Here are some general suggestions:

• Before you do the trades look at the relations closely.
• We are not ready for the JC's Praetorians yet. Gift him Drama and Literature and open borders with him if possible. Gift him Poly and COL also if he doesn't know that. He almost researched COL in 750 BC btw.
• Can we trade Monarchy with somebody? If you do the trade, trade with the more backward civs first. Just watch the relations first.
• Be careful about the lopsided deals, those could cause negative relations immediately. (If you give too much to someone's worst enemy.)
• Write down the important relations, be prepared for the offers AI could make. Trades are not important, you can say no and make the offer yourself. Izzy and Alex are still at war? They could have some demands.

Keep scouting, especially the land near JC. What open borders does he have? Can he reach us? Keep contacting him to see if he has "enough on his hands".

 

[Melior Traiano]

The diplomat situation with Caesar is very unfortunate. I would need some more information before making recommendations. Specifically, we need to check if Caesar is anyone's worst enemy. If he is, giving him any free tech could only compound our problems by making more civs pissed. Please post the Foreign Advisor 'Glance' screen & try to determine if any civs consider Caesar their worst enemy. And check his WHEOOHRN status at the start of each turn. Also please post the tech trade screen if it has changed any since my turns.

 

[shikhee]

as far as i can tell all the relations are exactly the same (in points) to how they were 1.5 turns ago (last posted screens) except we are -3 with JC.

i'll try and get screenshots now

 

[shikhee]

 

[shikhee]

I gave Drama to JC and we've now got another +4 fair trade with him (so now +1 total).

 

[kcd_swede]

Did our relations to anyone else get affected by that gift that you can see?

 

[shikhee]

I've stopped for a little while, because lots of people are willing to now trade Monarchy, so I'll go have some dinner see if any new ideas or priorities turn up...

We are currently 2 turns from Globe and 3 turns from Growth (I've been micromanaging to try and get these as close as possible).

t85/0 :
* Build: swapped to Scout (2t), 1sci max growth
* Trade: 200 gold to Asoka for Literacy (no immediate happy change)
* Tech: switched to Archery
* Worker: move to 1W of city (slightly better advantage in our defenses having that non-forested)
* Warrior: continued South-Eastish

t86/1 :
* Trade: Calender with Frederick for Code of Laws + 90 gold (reason: he is -1 with a few friends, but he is one of the lowest techs and we haven't traded with him yet, and its a key trade for our mid-term goals). But crap, now Julius has -4 "You traded with our worst enemy" even though he was equal -1 with a few other civs who did not alter their status.
* Trade: JC offered Horseback Riding for Drama + 40 gold; I declined (we don't need Horseback, and I'm not confident this trade would increase our relations with JC).
* Archery (cue Civil Service)
* Whip Scout (maxed food, back to size 8 in 1t)
* Warrior: continued SE, found Spanish borders (with a little bit of coast)
* Trade: gave Drama to JC, +4 trade relations forthright (so back to total +1)

t87/2 :
* Colossus + Chicken Itza (found in other lands)
* Size 8
* Worker chops Forest (wasn't fully prechopped)
* Scout: Exploring in SW general direction (opposite to Warriors SE), gave Jungle upgrade (figure extra jungle/forest movement is the most useful if he gets another upgrade)

t88/3 :
* Scout: SW - Alex is on the other side of Liz and both share a coast.
* Warrior: Finds Berlin and amazes at its glory

t89/4 :
* Meet Kublai Khan (+1 years of peace/-1 traded with enemies)
* GE built into city
* JC doesn't hate us as much (traded with enemies now only -3)
* Warrior: sees Roman camps in the far distance, due south of our gracious metropolis, at least 2 other civs to cross for them to find us.
* Scout: Sees how strong the border between Alex, Huayna and Fred is, kicks fence, holds fine.
* Worker: builds mine

t90/5 :
* Scout: Germans have some wide-ranging borders, while Incan's have two seperate culture-borders split.
* Warrior: Rather than risk upsetting more friends by trading OB with Romans, they scouted his borders eyeing the Monghols on the other side.

 

[shikhee]

trying to figure out this Monarchy trade (which I won't do until someone here says "yay") but the way I figure things...

* Huayna is least advanced with Monarchy, but he's most annoyed with Washi and we don't want to upset Washi.

* Liz seems next on the advanced list but is annoyed with Kublai, Alex and Toku - which we're not too fussed about annoying a little but theres a few of them, and Liz also is our challenger for early Liberalism.

* Washington seems up next in tech, cautious with Fred, good pals with JC and at big odds with Asoka.

* JC seems to be the next option, but he's not that pally with Fred, Liz or Asoka - but great friends with Washington.

* Asoka seems to be the last choice, we like this guy a lot but he is also the most advanced.

So what makes the best trading option out of that lot ? I would think Liz myself but I'd like to hear opinions. I'm not going to do any trade unless someone says to do so first (and we don't desperately need Monarchy yet).

 

[shikhee]

Frederick has just demanded that we cancel our deals with the Greek (we only have Open Borders).

I'm inclined to say say yes... but I'll give it about 30 minutes for a response here.

As I understand it, we might (probably) get a negative with Alex if we stop trading, we will definately get a negative with Fred if we don't agree with him.

 

[shikhee]

on 2nd thoughts... we can afford a -1 hit with Fred (we are now +1, and especially if we go Jewish we're big friends, he's also low tech if he hates us so no big threat yet) but Alex could well declare on us (he's 0 now, and could take it personally).

 

[kcd_swede]

I'm inclined to say no. If I understand, we have +1 with Fred and 0 with Alex. I'd raher not go negative on Alex, and wasn't trading with Fred what got us into trouble with JC?

I don't think it matters much either way yet, though. So do what you think is best.

 

[kcd_swede]

Yeah, that's what i WAS THINKING TOO. Fred is not as aggresive, also.

 

[Yamps]

Frederick has just demanded that we cancel our deals with the Greek (we only have Open Borders).

I'm inclined to say say yes... but I'll give it about 30 minutes for a response here.

As I understand it, we might (probably) get a negative with Alex if we stop trading, we will definately get a negative with Fred if we don't agree with him.

Do not give in to that demand! That would cause much greater penalties with Alex for sure. He won't even speak to us!


Regarding the Monarchy trade, you are not reading the relations table right.
Read the row to see who hates the civ you want to trade with. Reading the column says who that civ hates.

OB with JC, nobody will mind.

 

[shikhee]

when you say reading the row... do you mean the lowest numbers or the worst "cautious" or "annoyed" options ?

 

[kcd_swede]

I think Washi is the least offensive to others for our planned Monarchy trade. I'd vote Washi for the trade unless I see a good argument for someone else.

 

[shikhee]

Funny that... now Washington has asked to trade Monarchy for CoL + 100. hehe

decline just for now, maybe pick up again when theres more consensus

 

[Yamps]

(Regarding the trade with Fred)

I also just realised that he shouldn't have any WYFBTALJFSDNFAOSIJFDAS

Regarding the trades, I'm not sure that you understand the WFYBTA concept. Please ask if you have some questions.

The trade you made with Fred doesn't change our trade points with him. We get negative point with everybody else.

Look at the leader table in the WFYBTA article. For example, Capac has a low limit. (5 +20% deity = 6). That means that he is counting the trades we make with other people to the limit. He will soon stop trading. Note that he is also in the top 50% with score.

@Reading the table

Look at the color (attitude) too. Annoyed is worse than cautious, although numbers could be in different order. civ has to be at least annoyed with somebody to have a worst enemy, btw, cautious is ok.

Like I said, please feel free to ask questions.