SGOTM 09 - Fifth Element

[Simon_c]

Sorry, I didn't have much to say before the weekend, then had a hectic weekend...

Here's the PPP.
PPP. TS27

TS 27 goals:
research: Finish fission (2T) Satellites (3T) Laser (3T) (Is that the best way to Fusion ? See GPerson section )
Trades: Wang will sell us gold, but at an expensive price (Wine + something else. Either taking out a health resource, or an existing mining resource ) Watch the alerts and every turn F4 for techs and resources + F10 and city tour.
demands: show them the direction to Hell for any demand. But gently. If Shaka ask some reasonable item, give him
Cities:
LaunchPad: Building Apollo. (7T) running 7 Sci.
Athens: Hire a merchant, build money after ind park finished.
Bulbs: Finish Lab (2T) Build Sci until Apollo finished
Pindus: Hire Sci, not merchants. Get sushi here and hire more Sci
Sparta: Destroyer. (1T) we want at least 5 more. 1 pacific. 3 Atlantic 1 monitoring Shaka.
Panama: No point building more ships here. Finish drydock, (1T) then hire merchants and build money.
NewYork: Finsh Lab (1t) Build gold, get sushi hire merchants.
Greenland: Build Sci
Nippur: TGD (3T) We could get sushi here to swap some farms to workshops. Twiddle thumbs until Apollo finished.
Akkad: continue Factory (7T)
Dur-Kurigalzu: finish Lab (7t)
Bprsippa: finish Market (t2). Hire merchants + build wealth.
Sippar: finish Observatory (2). hire scientists. Build wealth.
Braga; finish Observatory (2). hire scientists. Build wealth.
Faro: Finish lab (7T) hire scientists. Build wealth.
Leiraia: Finish IndPK (T1) hire scientists. Build wealth.
Braganza: Finish Harbor (3T) hire scientists. Build wealth.
Guimaraes Finish IndPK (2T) hire scientists. Build wealth.
Lisbon: Finish Lab (T3) hire sci, build wealth until ready to build SS parts.
Evora: Finish Lab (4t) will take you ages to get the sparker connected.
Lagos: Finish observatory (2T) hire scientists. Build wealth.
Santarem: Hire sci, build research.


Build gold: (swap Eng to Merchant if he's hired)
Vancouver
Opis
Babylon
Coimbra:
Oporto

Corps: Sushi to Pindus, NewYork,
Any city with 2 or three sci city can use sishi to run Sci. Anyone have preference ?
We have 7 mining inc. Is that enough ?

GPersons: Merchant and spy ready to burn for a GA. Do this when TGD has finished, or when apollo has finished ?
Two Sci ready to bulb for computers, together they will take 1 turn off, but do we want to do that, and then go fission , computers, fibber optics, fusion before picking up Satellites ?

Workers: I've noticed a couple of spots to improve but I can't find them now.

Airship: keep it in the hanger.
Religion: we'll never adopt a religion.
Civics: we're well as we are.
Espionage: Now we can set all to 1.

 

[unclethrill]

My first suggestion is to not twiddle your thumbs in Nippur. A good game of Racquet ball would be better. Exercise is good.

 

[Mesix]

Sneek in one more Sushi exec in LP before Apollo and spread to Blubz. We can spread Sushi faster if we can build execs in Pindus and one additional city. Ideally we want Sushi in the same cities that have Mining Inc. We should also spread both corps to Lisbon and Evora.

I like that you are building wealth in so many cities.

We have 2 GS sleeping (one in Pindus and one in LP) that can be used to bulb at some point.

 

[Simon_c]

If we have the capacity, I'd say every place building wealth should have Sushi to hire about 3-4 merchants. It should end up as a net gain.

Do we want to drop 1turn from the Apollo program to get another Sushi exec out ?
I'll look back at the game during today if I get the chance

 

[Simon_c]

We need one Eng in LP to get Apollo in in 7 turns.

I *think* we can slip a Shshi exec in there, and not loose a turn because of overflow.. (somebody please check! I could be 1 counting when I should 1 counting or something)

LP is due to pop a GP in 2 turns and I think we'll get one more after that.
*if* it's a non-sci, then we would have enough GPs to get two more GAs.. Is that worth thinking about ? Is that bettern tahn 1700/Sci we get in bulbing ?

Babylon is next due to pop in 10 turns (probably 14 or so when the next one pops in LP) and that could be anything.
We can get Pindus to generate one earlier than that by getting sushi there. So, we could pop another GM, in around 10 turns, (maybe less). We would then have 1 GA with Artist+scientist, and 1GA with spy, Scientist + (merchant/artist). That will probably take us to the end of the game won't it ? (2% chance or so of another Sci)

 

[culdeus]

Hope all is going well here. I haven't really looked around a whole lot, because I had some major hardware issues that kept me civ free for a few months. With the patch I no longer require a CD which solved my problems. So i'm back playing BTS more now and trying to knock the rust off.

Good luck bringing this home.

 

[BLubmuz]

Hope all is going well here. I haven't really looked around a whole lot, because I had some major hardware issues that kept me civ free for a few months. With the patch I no longer require a CD which solved my problems. So i'm back playing BTS more now and trying to knock the rust off.

Good luck bringing this home.

Hi Culdeus, nice to hear from you. This is already home, but we have to see what the other teams did.


Simon, i won't go in deep with your PPP. Only some hints:

Laser is NOT needed for the SS, thus, the path is: Fission > computers > FO > Fusion.
Then satellites > composites, then Genetics. you'll bulb computers then FO (just a fraction, of course). If we pop another GS before Satellites, use him to bulb Genetics. After satellites he'll bulb laser, and we'll never research it.
If you spread Sushi to Blubz and Nippur, you can convert some farms into workshops and probably Apollo will go faster in Blubz than in LP, mainly after the 3GD.
Remember to switch scientists in Pindus.
Be aware that after the 3GD some city will have health problems.
I don't know if this will be in your TS, but we'll start our last GAge when we are to 1 turn to complete Fusion.

MM well and watch Shaka, build some more destroyer, just to be safe.

Gold from Wang? sure, we'll take it, even for a couple resources, but not mining resources or a 1 piece resource. Try to squeeze R&R somewhere, maybe in Nippur after the 3GD.

Try also to make some money selling outdated techs.
Good luck. Play slowly, with great attention to MM and improvements.

 

[Simon_c]

Hummm.
Should we really move Apollo somewhere else ? It's got about 2 turns invested in it in LP. I'll try to figure out when Apollo could be finished in Bulbz.

Are you discounting possibility of getting 2 GAs instead of 1 ? I suspect the extra GA may be better. At the tech rate we're on, bulbing a GSci will only save us about 1/2 a turn on one tech.

You say "great attention to MM and improvements" What extra improvements are needed ? Any hins on the MM? (swapping engineers to merchants on places producing wealth is one) I guess we can even start starving the larger cities if we're only expecting 20 more turns or so as long as they won't reduce a pop before the end of the game.

Are we happy with the plan to spread sushi wider so support more merchants ? (assuming we have capacity to build the execs)

 

[Mesix]

Spread Sushi to the SS component cities first to run more engineers. We could get some marginal gain from further spread if people think it is a good idea. Probably not enough economic gain to make a difference at this point though.

 

[BLubmuz]

I can't see how we can have a 3rd GAge. To do this we need 2 more different Gpersons (we already have a GS). No, impossible. Improvements to be changed more than to be made. I'm thinking to workshops instead of farms (be care to not break some irrigation chain) in the SS cities where we spread Sushi.

We'll move Apollo only to gain turns. If not, let it where is.

 

[Mesix]

We currently have a GSpy, GA, and GS (2x). If we pop any GMan that is not a GS, we can have 2 more Golden Ages. The first will be GS + GSpy. The second will be GS + GA + GMan soon to be popped. We just need to micromanage the GMen to ensure that we have 3 different ones to burn for the 3rd Golden Age.

I agree with Simon that 2 more Golden Ages is a better use of our GMen than bulbing.

 

[BLubmuz]

We currently have a GSpy, GA, and GS (2x). If we pop any GMan that is not a GS, we can have 2 more Golden Ages. The first will be GS + GSpy. The second will be GS + GA + GMan soon to be popped. We just need to micromanage the GMen to ensure that we have 3 different ones to burn for the 3rd Golden Age.

I agree with Simon that 2 more Golden Ages is a better use of our GMen than bulbing.

You're right, i didn't consider next GAge with GS+GSpy.
And we can easily pop a GM from pindus.

But the question is: are research-wise 2 consecutives GAges better than a GS pop? Our production problems are for the SS Casings, and those are solved by the GAge to 1 turn to Fusion. If a GAge starting right after Simon begins to play is better, research-wise than bulb, go on. Some testing is needed, maybe.

In any case, we must stack the Gpeople chosen for the GAge, to avoid a random choice.

OK, i volunteer for a test. I can run it this afrternoon, and post a report in 8 hours from now.

 

[Simon_c]

if we burn a Artist and Sci now, we will pop 1 GPerson from LP now anyway, and that has a 75% chance of a GSci.

If it's a GSci, then we need to MM Pindus to produce a mercahnt. It will have a small (<2%) chance of producing a GSci, otherwise artist or merchant will be fine.

We need to try to make sure Babylon does not pop a GPerson, because that will have a higher chance of being a Sci, but I think we can do that with the extra merchants Pindus can run when it has Sushi (next turn)



The GSci in LP will give us about 1700 to computers,

I just noticed, we're missing a Grocer in LP which is worth about 20:Gold:/turn. !!
And a courthouse, which is worth another 35 / turn.

So, I think we *have* to move Apollo to Bulbz ( 7Turns) and get the infrastructure finished in LP.

 

[BLubmuz]

CH first in LP
i'll post a report in few hours, wait that before play.

 

[Mesix]

Should we continue to run merchants in Pindus until the GMan pops from LP in case we need the extra GM for the final GA?

 

[Sweetacshon]

Hello again. Yes, I was the groom.

No just a mate's wedding. Funnily enough, I did lose my car keys for a day, and so was stuck at a friends house for that period, pretty much in pyjamas. What a lark!

Anyway, I'll need a little time to digest things here, but it looks like we're crusing. Nice play.

 

[culdeus]

I got the save, let me try to fogbust before take a decision.

Edit:

done, my thoughts are:
1) send the scout where you like, he will reveal nothing interesting, but more forests, i think.
2) no room for a city north if we settle riverside, so i propose: pity for the Levee, but we'll settle ON the N corn: not a great move in long term, but the capital will be coastal (great for trade routes later) and we can access the fish and gain some time on the first worker.
3) revolt to PS and Environment on turn 0
4) first build Warrior, then worker, warrior, settler. No WB until we'll have triremes: when Gyathaar says "barbs are meaner" i'm worried for our nets.
5) research: wheel, then mining > BW

More thoughts:
We'll need lots of Forest preserve to keep our people happy, but they're good for commerce, too.

Long term how do you feel this worked out? I can say it was certainly not the norm.

 

[BLubmuz]

Long term how do you feel this worked out? I can say it was certainly not the norm.

I think the positioning of the Capital was good and it paid off. It can't grow faster before we has the correct techs/civics so the double corn was useless. Not sure about other choices, like the GWall or to settle GSs.


Now, my report.
I started the GAge immediately, stacking a GS and a GSpy. But the rush for a GP in Pindus was useless, since we didn't counted the free GE from Fusion, popped 1 turn after the Gm from Pindus. He's totally useless, and we can use him to continue our 18 turns GAge.
Thus we can try a GS in Pindus, even if we don't actually need him.

Sushi: i spreaded it to Athens, Blubz, Nippur and Leiria after Pindus.
Mining: i spreaded it to some more cities, can't remember which.

I changed some plot near Nippur and Blubz and a watermill S of Babylon, changing the workshop to farm.

I launched on turn 190, finish on turn 196. I doubt we can improve, even with a GS from Pindus.

Anyway you was right, 2 GAges are better than a bulb, research-wise.

 

[Simon_c]

Hi,
Just got back in, and it's late here now. I might be able to squeze a turn or two in now, but I'll probably play tomorrow afternoon & evening. If I start to feel tired, I'll stop

The Geng !! Ofcourse. We probably should have planned to use him for the TGD to take 3 turns of that. Oh well.

So, I'll start a GAge now using one GMerchant & GSci, and run Scientists in Pindus.
And move Apollo to Bulbz.

Other than that, it will be as the PPP.

Only 1-2 turns tonight, so if anyone has a problem, with the plan, shout before I do too much damage.

 

[Simon_c]

Index of Fifth Element turnset reports for SGotM09:
26- turn 170-175 - 06/26 - Unclethrill (5) - Cruising to space, Sushi founded
27- turn 180-185 - Simon_c (5)
28- turn 185-190 - Greatbeyond (5)

Er, I think you lost 5 turns there. It's 175 now, I'll save the start of 180